From the River to the Sea: Ibaitik Itsasora (32)

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mar. 26

Surgeon breaks down in parliament explaining how IDF drones target children

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsK7noLGOM)

Ex-NHS surgeon Nizam Mamode broke down as he told the international development committee what he witnessed when working as a surgeon in Gaza.

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Gaza-returned surgeon gives gut wrenching testimony in UK parliament, stuns MPs | Janta Ka Reporter

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PEHNXR8Uvk)

Dr. Nizam Mamode, an ex-NHS surgeon has told the UK parliament what he saw in Gaza while working at a hospital with the victims of war. He broke down during his deposition while recalling the gripping tales of excesses in the besieged region.

He appeared before a select committee of the parliament on 12 November.

Transkripzioa:

0:00

the drones existed before uh October last year um it’s been a feature of

0:05

Palestinian life for some time um but now um the drones Inspire fear I think

0:13

and they inspired fear in me um uh and when I used to debate about sleeping

0:20

outside on the stairs or inside in this very crowded hot room um part of that

0:25

decision was whether the drones had the ability to pick me off when I was on the stairs um identify you sorry identify

0:33

you no shoot me so that’s what they do what I think I found particularly disturbing was that um a bomb would drop

0:42

maybe on a crowded tented area and then the drones would come down

0:51

and please take your time it’s we’re incredibly grateful that you’re making

0:56

the time to be here today and I Can Only Imagine IM just how it has impacted you

1:02

and will continue to impact you and I I I feel because you can’t unsee what you’ve seen but being able to share that

1:10

with us really helps us hold legislators particularly to account um so we do

1:17

appreciate the time that you’re making for us today thank you so the drins would come down and

1:24

pick off civilians children and we had descript description

1:30

after description this is not you know an occasional thing this was day after day after day operating on children who

1:37

would say I was lying on the ground after a bomber dropped and this quadcopter came down and hovered over me

1:44

and shot me uh and the the the bullets that the drones fire are these small

1:50

cuboid pellets um and I fished a number of those out of the abdomen of small

1:57

children I think the youngest eye oper waed on was a three-year-old um who had

2:04

a major injury to the artery in her neck um and we used the

2:10

last um shunt which is a device you use to um bypass the the artery in the neck

2:18

to keep applying blood to the brain we use the last one in the hospital I was operating on

2:24

one young girl one night who died not long afterwards and I can’t

2:30

begin to describe her injuries um but uh when I’d finished

2:36

operating on her um an opthalmologist was trying to take out her left eye

2:43

which was just pulp and he was a lovely gentle man

2:50

maybe 5 years older than me and he said he was while he was

2:55

working he was just saying yeah when they came in February they got all of us who were still here

3:03

they put our hands behind our backs tied them up put a hood over our heads made

3:09

us stand for 10 hours beat us cursed Us in Arabic humiliated humiliated us and

3:16

then some were taken away some were killed some were detained some were released we had a medical

3:23

student um who worked with us who described how the women had all been lined up and Been Told to strip down to

3:31

their underwear and made to stand for hours like that which is deeply deeply

3:37

humiliating particularly in that culture and then when they told her she could go

3:42

they wouldn’t give her her clothes back so she had to run through the streets like that I would like to start this the

3:48

very first session of the International Development select committee uh it is a new committee that we’ve got here for

3:54

this new Parliament and it is my great honor that our very first witness is Professor nazim mmud who is a professor

4:02

of transplant surgery um but uh nazam you’re here in front of us because you

4:07

have recently returned from Gaza um and doing some work in the hospitals over

4:13

there uh we really appreciate uh you coming and speaking to us today uh it’s

4:18

very difficult to get firsthand testimony obviously about what’s going on uh in Gaza at the moment so thank you

4:25

for coming and um sort of sharing your experiences uh I wonder wonder if you could sort of properly introduce

4:32

yourself um and what you were actually doing out there and when you came back yes so uh um I’m no longer a professor

4:38

of transplant surgery I retired from the NHS a couple of years ago uh and I’ve spent my time doing work overseas so I

4:45

had a a month um in Gaza mid August to mid-september working in NASA Hospital

4:52

uh with Medical Aid for Palestinians um and I’m happy to tell

4:57

you about my experiences there please tell us so when did you go why did you

5:02

go why did I go uh because I thought I had the skill set that could help

5:08

um uh I did when I was sitting in the Convoy um going in across the border I

5:14

did I think have second thoughts but it was too late then to get out of the Convoy um and I think when when we

5:22

crossed the border um the first the first thing was really a complete sense

5:27

of shock um what did you see what did you smell you see a landscape that looks

5:34

as though it reminded me of Hiroshima and Nagasaki um Devastation buildings

5:39

reduced to Rubble for miles around as far as you can see uh nothing growing no

5:44

people a few looters here and there but nothing uh you drive through that for

5:51

about 20 minutes um and then you get to the

5:56

central part of Southern Gaza um um which was the uh designated the green

6:03

zone I I can’t bring myself to call it the safe zone or humanitarian Zone because it was Nether um that green zone

6:12

houses about 1.3 million people what sort of area is that probably about size city of

6:18

London um you can walk across it fairly easily if if it was safe to do so um and

6:26

a large part of it comprises of of tents um um uh and when I say tents some of those

6:33

are proper tents many of them are just pieces of carpet and plastic stuck onto

6:39

sticks um uh and these are in the middle of the road side of the road every possible space there’s no running water

6:47

no sanitation no electricity obviously um and people are having to

6:54

roll those up and move on at very very short notice um time and time again most

7:01

people have moved six or seven times what does it sound smell we um

7:09

well the sound is mainly of two things one is drones so there’s constant drones

7:15

um and the drones existed before uh October last year um it’s been a feature

7:21

of Palestinian life for some time um but now um the drones Inspire fear I I think

7:29

and they inspired fear in me um uh and when I used to debate about sleeping

7:36

outside on the stairs or inside in this very crowded hot room um part of that

7:42

decision was whether the drones had the ability to pick me off when I was on the stairs um identify you sorry identify

7:49

you no shoot me so that’s what they do um those drones are surveillance drones but they are also uh drones um that that

7:57

shoot people regularly um and I can tell you more about some of the people I’ve operated on who who

8:04

experienced that so you have this constant wine which is very um

8:12

psychologically very affecting because it represents danger and it’s and it’s constantly there and the other sound

8:18

that you hear um are bombs which um were going off every hour or two throughout

8:26

the month that I was there um and we would be we spent the whole month in

8:32

the hospital we deemed it um not safe to travel um and we were aware that there

8:39

was a curfew so we wanted to be in the hospital if casualties arrived at night um we did have a guest house we didn’t

8:46

want to stay there partly because of the travel but also because one of the map guest houses had been bombed in January

8:54

of this year um so we stayed in the hospital uh and a missile strike or or

9:02

an artillery shell would explode in the vicinity and the whole building would Shake um Windows would rattle um you

9:10

know you would look out the window or run outside see how close it was it’s a constant feature of life um we felt we

9:18

were relatively safe um because we thought it’s unlikely there’ll be a direct strike on the

9:25

hospital but for those 1.3 1.4 million people um in that green zone they were

9:32

constantly being bombed um day and night um and what I think I found particularly

9:40

disturbing was that um a bomb would drop maybe on a crowded tented area and then

9:49

the drones would come down and please take your time it’s we’re

9:56

incredibly grateful that you’re making the time to be here today and I can only

10:02

imagine just how it has impacted you and will continue to impact you and i’ I I

10:08

feel because you can’t unsee what you’ve seen but being able to share that with us really helps us hold legislators

10:17

particularly to account um so we do appreciate the time that you’re making for us today thank

10:23

you so the drones would come down and pick off civilians children

10:30

and we had description after description this is not you know an occasional thing this was day after day after day

10:37

operating on children who would say I was lying on the ground after a bom had dropped and this quadcopter came down

10:45

and hovered over me and shot me and th that’s a clearly a deliberate act

10:53

and it was a persistent act persistent targeting of civilians day after day we

10:59

had one or two mass casualty incidents every day and that meant 10 to 20 dead

11:06

20 to 40 seriously injured now a hospital like guys where I

11:12

used to work guys in St Thomas’s might get one or two a year we had one or two a day um and 60 to 70% of the people we

11:21

treated were women and children I um I’m I’m sorry to do this draw you a little

11:26

you say children um I wonder if you could tell us sort of the ages of the children and you say

11:34

that they they said that they were lying on the ground from a bomb shock um do

11:40

you believe them oh yeah absolutely I mean a 7-year-old is not going to make

11:46

up a story we’re talking little children not not late teens well from the

11:53

majority of of the of the um children who were casualties were young children

11:58

but we had casualties in their teens we had women in their 30s um and it was a very consistent

12:06

story um and the story would be given as

12:12

soon as they came into the emergency department so I absolutely no reason to doubt

12:17

this um uh and the the the bullets that

12:22

the drones fire are these small cuboid pellets um and I fished a number of

12:29

those was out of the abdomen of small children I think the youngest I operated

12:34

on was a three-year-old um who had a major injury to the artery in her neck

12:41

um and we used the last um shunt which is a device you use

12:48

to um bypass the the artery and the neck keeps applying blood to the brain we Ed

12:55

the last one in the hospital um uh because those kinds of things are just

13:01

not available um uh she died uh about three or four days later from

13:08

infection you believe it was deliberate targeting of absolutely no absolutely no question in my mind and I and it’s

13:16

been uh it’s been the experience of so many healthcare workers who’ve

13:21

documented it time and time and time again um but my personal experience and those of my colleagues was this was

13:28

clearly persistent deliberate targeting of civilians and I’ve worked in a number of conflict zones um in different parts of

13:36

the world I was there at the time of the round in genocide um I’ve never seen anything on

13:42

this scale ever and that was also the view of all the experienced colleagues

13:49

that I worked with um one of the surgeons in my team had been to Ukraine

13:55

five times and said this is 10 times worse normally in a conflict Zone you would

14:02

have a front line have fighting going on between um two sets of forces and you

14:07

might get some civilians injured in in that um in that exchange there doesn’t seem to be a

14:14

front line there just seems to be 1.4 million people trapped they can’t leave

14:21

and having bombs dropped on them on a daily basis and then drones coming in and shooting them um and there’s plenty

14:28

of evidence um out there uh from from Israeli soldiers that that’s what’s

14:35

going on but we saw it you know we saw the results of it thank you

14:42

Laur you talked about a child dying of um an infection that was

14:49

caught we know that supplies getting in are extremely limited less now than they

14:54

have been in the past can you talk a bit about the challenges that you you faced

14:59

because of uh the lack of supplies how does that manifest itself when you’re trying to do your medical work yeah I

15:06

mean the um so I remember one Saturday night operating on an 8-year-old um who

15:12

was bleeding to death and I asked for a swab and they said no more

15:19

swabs um we had um we had operations being

15:29

done with no sterile gloves no sterile drapes at various points we had lack of basic equipment I

15:37

did amputations on people um who just had to take paracetamol after the

15:43

operation as pain relief um that Medical Aid was sitting at the board and not being allowed in we

15:51

were not allowed to take any medical medical equipment except for personal use and so

15:59

I was asked could I bring thyroid medication for for some people couldn’t take it in um that’s a deliberate policy

16:08

uh and that’s changed because I know that teams earlier in the year had been able to take some medical equipment in so again that seems to me to be a

16:15

deliberate restriction of medical supplies um and basic things like soap um shampoo

16:24

that’s not being allowed in um I saw I don’t I know how many wounds with

16:30

maggots in um one of my colleagues took maggots out of a child’s throat in intensive

16:36

care um there were flies in the operating theater Landing in the

16:41

wounds um it was appalling and and that’s that’s a deliberate Choice it’s

16:46

not um an accident in light of those challenges

16:51

how did you attempt to manage sterilization infection you just do the best you can but you know I mean a large

16:58

number of our Pat patients perhaps the majority I don’t know um would survive

17:03

the operation and die of infections afterwards um and I think

17:10

um you know there was another there was a a doctor in his 30s in who worked in

17:15

intensive care in the hospital he got hepatitis A um which is a disease of poor hygiene

17:22

it’s a disease for which there’s a vaccination I’ve been vaccinated he didn’t have access to the vaccine he

17:28

became unwell he became a patient is an onitu um he didn’t have the treatment

17:34

that he could have had in a proper environment and he died in his own itu um we asked for him to be evacuated

17:41

but he wasn’t thank you it sounds medieval what

17:49

you’re describing yes undoubtedly I mean it it and remember that NASA Hospital

17:54

the time that I was there was probably the best hospital in Gaza um most other hospitals did not

18:03

have the facilities and the equipment that NASA had and NASA was barely

18:09

functioning as a hospital um and was being run by

18:14

staff many of whom had very very little experience because so many medical staff

18:21

um have been detained been killed some have left when they were able to leave

18:28

so in intensive care for example was run basically by General Practitioners who’d had very minimal training um so the the

18:37

cost in life and in suffering um uh from

18:42

from from that side of things is very substantial because you don’t have the equipment you don’t have the staff you

18:49

don’t have the facilities um and even getting access to

18:55

the hospital um an ambulance was shot uh while I was there um several bullet

19:02

holes in the windscreen while it was going to pick up casualties um I think

19:08

it’s something like 163 or more um documented examples of ambulances being

19:15

targeted um uh so many people never got an

19:21

ambulance um would people would would carry casualties in um sometimes to

19:28

bring them in on Donkey carts and when a mass casualty incident happened we’d have the whole emergency department full

19:36

people would be lying on the floor in pools of blood and it would be a case of trying to decide who was

19:43

alive who was alive and might survive with some treatment um and who could wait a

19:51

bit and that was pretty much every day and that’s been going on for a very long time now

20:04

sorry your your the information you’re giving is um throwing us but we’re glad

20:11

that you’re giving it to us um Alice um yeah thank you it’s very

20:17

powerful testimony you you mentioned at the beginning that about 60% I think of the the people you were saying were

20:22

women and children can you just expand a little bit more on the kind of effects

20:28

that you were seeing on women and children presumably you know there would be pregnant women coming in for example

20:34

just to talk about some of the the challenges that you were seeing particularly when it comes to those two two groups of vulnerable people yeah I

20:42

mean um I wouldn’t want to be pregnant in Gaza at the moment um uh we didn’t

20:48

deal directly with women giving birth that was dealt with elsewhere so we didn’t have experience of that but um

20:56

um you you would have people with um

21:01

blast injuries abdominal injuries chest injuries um limbs blown

21:07

off um head injuries uh we saw a number of

21:12

um children with um sniper injuries to the Head single shot to the head no

21:19

other injuries um so clearly deliberately targeted by Israeli

21:25

snipers um and yeah that

21:30

was day after day maybe just ask a followup question in terms of you know the horrendous

21:37

things you’re describing you know drone targeting snipers as you just

21:42

mentioned um how how was that kind of in terms of what you were seeing happening

21:48

was how was that kind of was there a way to kind of bring some of that together in the same way that you’re sharing this evidence with us here now was that

21:56

shared back on on the ground in in different ways with different people um

22:02

do you mean with people in Gaza yeah you mean how is it documented or yeah how’s it do documented yeah if if it’s

22:08

possible to do that it’s not really I mean the the the emergency department is chaos most of the time um there’s

22:15

no I mean there are no medical notes anymore um you know there be little

22:23

scraps of literally little scraps of paper um that people would write something on

22:29

saying you know had an amputation come back in a week on

22:35

discharge that was the extent um uh there were I think they documented

22:41

the admissions but um uh collecting detailed statistics

22:48

about um causes of of the particular traa is is

22:55

difficult I think um sorry just to say one other thing I mean I think as you probably know there’ve been uh there’s

23:01

been a letter from 32 doctors and nurses from the UK uh who wrote to prime

23:06

minister back in September who they’d all worked in Gaza some of them overlapped with me and 99 um in the US

23:14

who wrote to Biden in October um saying exactly the same things the the this is

23:20

not um this is not a surprise um this is something that that uh senior

23:26

politicians I’m sure are well aware of

23:31

just just additional question on this um what was the balance that you were seeing between people who who whose

23:39

injuries and suffering was caused directly by the conflict EG bullets bombs shrapnel and so on versus disease

23:49

hunger and other types of illness you know affected by living in those conditions yeah so there were a lot of

23:55

people um with those problems as a a surgeon I only kind of saw them periphery coming through so we would on

24:03

a daily basis there’d be several people coming to the emergency department for example with diabetic keto acidosis so

24:09

these would be di diabetics who um didn’t have access to

24:14

insulin um and then they would develop a diabetic coma so that’s you have to go

24:19

back to the 30s and 40s in this country for for that to happen um you insulin

24:26

needs to be kept in a fridge if you’re living in a how do you store it how do you even get

24:31

hold of it um so there were there were lots of those examples um colleagues who

24:38

were working in Primary Care were were describing huge amounts of infectious disease particularly amongst

24:44

children um we certainly saw malnourished children um and I think

24:49

that’s just getting worse and worse and worse now um and then of course there are there are all the other normal

24:56

conditions if you like so so we came across people with bow cancer um and they got an operation but

25:05

it wasn’t a Curative operation because there’s no chemotherapy no radiotherapy so all the kind of ancillary services

25:11

that existed before the war they had some very good hospitals with very good facilities and very good uh staff

25:18

they’ve all gone they’ve been destroyed um so there’s a huge uncounted

25:24

cost to the war um and there was a pay in the Lancet in July estimating because

25:32

of that both the the the casualties that have been counted those that were likely to be under the rubble and all of those

25:38

who were dying from other diseases as a result of the war they estimated conservatively

25:45

186,000 dead that was in um those figures up to June um so to my mind it’s

25:53

over 200,000 now okay

25:58

um you talked about colleagues who had been detained and killed yes can you give us an idea of how many colleagues

26:05

you were working amongst in the hospital many colleagues I was working with yeah with him um do you mean Palestinian

26:11

colleagues yes local colleagues oh um well there were quite a few as I would

26:18

have to guess is probably about 20 25

26:23

doctors um in the hospital um maybe more I don’t know

26:29

um uh but there were many many more um

26:34

before the war and um many of the doctors I was working with had been in

26:40

the north um and had fled the North and we’re now making up the numbers in the

26:46

South you also talked about um ambulances being targeted did you feel

26:52

safe um well um I felt relatively safe

26:58

in the sense that I thought it was unlikely they’d drop a 2,000 bomb directly on the

27:04

hospital but we were worried about drones couldn’t leave the

27:09

hospital um and traveling in and out um

27:15

was probably the most nerve-wracking thing so we traveled in and out on a un Convoy and armored vehicles that’s been

27:22

shot at five times by these Raiders and these are convoys that are very

27:28

carefully organized so they follow a predetermined route given to them by the Israeli Army there’s a radio check at

27:33

the start before they leave during the journey and at the end so the Israeli Army know that they’re there and where

27:40

they are and despite that five times including while we were there um they’ve been shot at so my biggest fear while I

27:49

was there was being killed by the Israelis the um the the convoys that

27:57

were shot at was this sort of a rogue sniper or was this no no this is

28:04

the Israeli Army coming up as a unit and deliberately shooting and un Convoy yes

28:10

yes uh so the last one that when I was there I think it would have been about the end of August was

28:17

reported um some wh staff uh andig these are armored vehicles so there’s you can

28:24

see I think four five bullet marks in in in the window just where someone would

28:30

have been sitting um we were told uh given very clear

28:35

instructions the doors are going to be locked when you set off do not unlock the doors if the Israeli Army shoot at

28:42

you and order you out do not get out of the vehicle um you know this is a un combo it’s got

28:50

un and big letters on the side um and it and it carries in twice a week it

28:56

carries um about 30 to 40 Aid workers from different organizations in and

29:02

out um it’s you know the huge a huge number

29:08

of Aid workers have been targeted um and that’s well documented and again to my

29:13

mind that’s a deliberate policy could I could I ask a question sorry the

29:20

um the the Drone thing especially um when when they’re shooting people do

29:27

these are single shots or or are they machine guns I mean are they they

29:34

targeting individual people with a one off shot how how does it happen yeah so

29:40

luckily I never um was anywhere near a drone firing um so I can only comment on

29:47

on what we saw when people came in so um we would see people with um sometimes a

29:53

single uh entry point sometimes two or three what we did see um on one or two

30:00

occasions was a very disturbing pattern where there’d be three or four shots

30:08

here three or four shots here and again in the groin and that we all thought was

30:17

Prima fascia evidence of an autonomous drone or semi-autonomous drone because a human operator would not be able to fire

30:24

with that degree of accuracy that quickly um and there is some documentation that

30:32

those were going to be used it reported in heret back in April um so uh that was

30:39

particularly disturbing um but uh most of the Drone injuries we saw were one

30:46

two sometimes three shots and these pellets were um in a way more destructive than

30:52

bullets because if if you’re shot in the chest with a bullet if it misses your

30:58

heart goes on the other side it can go through your lung and out the back you’ll probably

31:04

survive um but with with the Drone pellets what I found was they would go in and they would bounce around so they

31:12

would cause multiple injuries so I had a 7-year-old boy the one I described earlier who gave a very clear

31:18

description he had an entry point here um he came in with his stomach hanging

31:23

out of his chest he had an injury to his liver

31:33

spleen bow arteres so quite extensive destruction

31:39

from a single entry point and um he survived that and went out a week later

31:45

whether he’s still alive I don’t know thank you for

31:51

trying Gordon thank you very much nazam for for coming in front of the committee

31:57

it’s incredibly valuable to hear your your testimony and I have to say in the you know the four months I’ve been an MP

32:03

I don’t think I’ve heard anything as harrowing as what you’re describing so um really appreciate you coming in front of us um I wondered and I realize this

32:11

is a difficult question to answer if you could try and give an estimation of how many lives could be saved

32:18

protected um by Aid that is currently sitting at the border crossing um you know what what is the what is the

32:25

difference on the ground you feel that could make with that is literally being can make a huge difference huge difference I mean I I’ve never been in a

32:33

conflict area where um where medical um

32:39

Aid is has been restricted to that extent I mean you know it’s um not

32:45

allowing supplies in um bombing healthc care facilities attacking ambulances

32:51

killing healthcare workers um if all of that didn’t happen um

32:58

then tens of thousands of lives would be saved um and I would I would think that

33:04

any army that is engaged in a war has a responsibility to the civilian population on both sides um and I’m

33:12

seeing the opposite there I could ask a follow-up question on that um from your experience and your

33:18

colleagues experience working in other conflict zones I mean how different is this to you know you give even the

33:23

example of Ukraine and how different is from a normal conflict Zone in terms of the medical completely completely

33:28

different um in every respect and um you know I think that was a that was a

33:34

recurring theme from everybody from uh people working for the UN

33:40

wh um doctors um Everybody uh the

33:46

international committee the Red Cross were there um with a field hospital um

33:52

most of the time in a conflict Zone the civilian population can move they can

33:57

get away from it they may have to walk a long distance they may have to suffer doing

34:03

that but you know it’s the equivalent of just putting a blockade around the city

34:09

of London saying you can’t leave and then dropping bombs month after month

34:15

and then closing down all the healthcare facilities that’s what’s happening um

34:20

and it’s astonishing that that it’s continuing I I mean we all found found

34:26

that it was beyond belief that this could to continue you regard what you saw as

34:31

genocide I’m not an international um human rights lawyer um so I can’t talk

34:39

about the um the absolute definitions but it’s difficult to find another word

34:45

for it um given what we’ve seen and um and I certainly think that the

34:51

Palestinian people feel um that that’s what’s happening to them and there’s a sense of resignation that they’re all

34:57

just waiting to die um with no chance of Escape so in a word yes the um Israelis would

35:06

say that they’re dropping leaflets warning people to move to different areas so it it’s not targeted at

35:14

civilians what are your thoughts on that well I think there’s two things first of all the the green zone supposedly

35:20

they’re not targeting um so most of our casualties were from the green zone and many of them had no evacuation no

35:27

warning a all just a bomb would just drop um we

35:33

had a a vehicle blown up um 5 M from the emergency department uh in the Main

35:39

Street uh we certainly didn’t get any any warning and if I’d been crossing the

35:44

road to um buy something that would have been the end of me um in terms of

35:51

evacuation orders um the way it works is they normally send a message out on

35:56

mobile phone um to all the mobile phones saying area

36:02

number whatever evacuation order um so if you

36:07

have a mobile phone and if it’s charged and working which is not that easy if you’re in a

36:12

tent um then you might have a chance but the bombing typically would start

36:18

sometimes minutes sometimes hours so I had one of the Palestinian doctors who worked very closely with me we were on a

36:24

wardr one morning and he suddenly looked at his phone and said I’ve got to go and he ran out the

36:31

hospital ran to find his uh the tent where his wife his two young children

36:37

the youngest was one and a half and his father were living and they had to pack

36:43

up the tent and walk for Miles find somewhere else um all the while thinking

36:49

at any moment we may have a bomb dropped on us um and that’s the day-to-day

36:55

reality of life for all those

37:00

people um you talked about this day-to-day reality you’ve talked about children being targeted and healthcare

37:07

workers um being killed and you talked about a sense of resignation that you

37:13

know civilian will think they will die can you give us a sense of what they think about the International Community

37:18

or do they think at all about what we could do um well uh they were very

37:26

pleased to hear that I’d spoken to some MPS last week um you know when I messaged the

37:32

colleagues there and said this is what I’m doing and I said don’t know if it’ll make much difference and they said small

37:38

steps I think um they feel abandoned by the

37:44

International Community um they feel some of them

37:49

still hope that something might happen um and I think they appreciated

37:57

hug hugely the fact that people were coming to help them and stand by

38:03

them um that was one of the main reasons for

38:10

going thank you thank you for coming to speaking to us today and um thanks for

38:15

having the strength to share your experiences as well I know how difficult it must be um going back to the sort of

38:21

points around targeting was there a threat that the Israeli Defense Force was seeing was Hamas in the community

38:28

could you see where it was or yeah I’m I’m laughing because this was the question I asked when I got there so you

38:35

know is is Hamas in the hospital have they been in the hospital and they just laughed at me and they said there is no

38:41

Hamas there’s a few Fighters hiding in tunnels there’s no Hamas there never was any Hamas in the hospital everybody

38:48

hates Hamas um and you know we never saw any

38:54

evidence in the street um in the hospital you know as I said I’ve been in

39:00

Conflict zones before normally um if Fighters come in they come in with guns

39:06

they come in with their friends with guns um we never saw any of that we were allowed to go wherever we wanted in the

39:13

hospital um you know there might have been a tunnel underneath who knows um

39:19

but if Hamas were coming and going in the hospital it would have been fairly evident and I think they would have been

39:25

probably kicked out by by the people that worked there um I remember they

39:31

described with ironic laughter they described one of their colleagues when NASA hospital was um was attacked by the

39:39

Israelis in in February um and they killed a number of

39:44

Staff um put them in a mass grave along with a number of patients um that’s well

39:51

documented but they described one of their colleagues who was taken away detained uh along with a number of

39:58

others who was killed in detention and they said well he was an atheist and he

40:03

hated Hamas and he was before the war he was very vifer about those things he he

40:10

just thought Islam was stupid and he thought Hamas was stupid and he took him away and killed him um that’s that’s

40:17

what’s going on it’s it’s not a as far as I can see it doesn’t matter um who

40:23

you are in Gaza if you’re Palestinian you’re a Target thank you David and then

40:31

Noah thank you professor as follows on from what Laura was asking you and what

40:37

Gordon was asking you but on the subject of medical supplies what would you say

40:42

in the circumstances are the is the highest need the highest priority in terms of the particular types of medical

40:48

supplies that need to get in at this point well B basic medical supplies so adequate things like G swabs gowns

40:55

gloves um antibiotics painkillers all those basic things those are absolutely essential um but beyond

41:03

that you need all of the other ancillary things um uh you need catheters to put

41:12

into people um you need specialist specialist uh Imaging techniques and so

41:17

on um I I’ve been a transplant surgeon for most of my career so I know quite a

41:24

bit about dialysis um I used to look every every morning on the balcony where

41:30

our accommodation was in the hospital I would look across to a building which had been the new Dialysis Center built

41:36

by Kuwai is as I understand it and you can see that building’s 100 meters

41:43

away burnt out um no uh shell damage no bullet

41:50

holes there was no fight no firefight there the Israelis went in and burnt it

41:56

out so then now they have six or seven dialysis machines essentially for the whole of

42:02

Southern Gaza um and if you have kidney failure

42:07

and you don’t have dialysis you die so to my mind that that that you know

42:14

that’s just not acceptable you there time Sharon um

42:21

there really harrowing experiences do you have a sense on on the point of being targeted as as

42:28

medical professionals uh and you spoke about the information that that you know

42:36

that the that the Defense Forces have I mean what what in your mind did you ever

42:42

get a sense of any of the the motivation behind some of these um these attacks or

42:48

is that very far away and distant for you well um in terms of targeting

42:56

foreign Aid workers so so for example bombing of the map guest house in January um one of the surgeons who was

43:04

with me was there at the time um and a missile landed just within the grounds

43:11

in front of the house at 6:00 a.m. in the morning um some people were injured luckily nobody was

43:17

killed all of those guest houses are in the Israeli Army’s computers they are

43:24

designated as safe houses so my assumption is that that is a

43:31

deliberate uh attack um and that the aim behind it is

43:37

to discourage Aid workers from coming and and I think it’s the same as the

43:44

shooting at the UN convoys in terms of attacking

43:49

um uh hospitals and ambulances and so on um to my mind it can’t

43:57

it can’t be anything other than Collective punishment it’s it’s

44:03

just um it’s just a consistent um

44:09

attempt to to essentially wipe out um a

44:14

large part of the population and I think the other theme that comes through again and again when you talk to

44:21

people is the humiliation the aggression um

44:28

so I was operating on one young girl one night who died not

44:35

long afterwards and I can’t even begin to describe her injuries um but uh when I’d finished

44:43

operating on her um an opthalmologist was trying to take out her left eye

44:50

which was just pulp and he was a lovely gentle man

44:57

maybe 5 years older than me and he said he was while he was

45:02

working he was just saying yeah when they came in February they got all of us who were

45:09

still here they put our hands behind our backs tied them up put a hood over our

45:15

heads made us stand for 10 hours beat us cursed Us in Arabic humiliated

45:21

humiliated us and then some were taken away some were killed some were detained

45:27

some were released we had a medical student um who worked with us who

45:33

described how the women had all been lined up and been told to strip down to their underwear and made to stand for

45:40

hours like that which is deeply deeply humiliating particularly in that culture

45:47

and then when they told her she could go they wouldn’t give her her clothes back so she had to run through the streets

45:52

like that which for her was extremely traumatic so there’s a con consistent theme

45:59

of attack humiliation aggression um against people who are simply trying to

46:07

do their job um to try and help people in the worst possible

46:13

circumstances you said um they did this to the Medics who who Israeli

46:20

Army y s right Laura last question um you

46:26

were in in NASA hospital I think you said um the situation in North G is

46:32

getting um a lot of attention now more attention now for how awful it is did

46:38

you have any contact with medical professionals trying to work um in the north of the country and uh no only in

46:45

the sense that uh I think three of there was a group of Jordanian doctors sharing the accommodation with us and three of

46:53

them said we’re going to try and get into the North and they got turned back at the essentially

47:00

a border now um and weren’t allowed in uh that was in August um when things

47:08

were nothing like they are now very last question just in terms of

47:15

um going back to children and the effects on children in terms of medical evacuations of children and other

47:20

conflicts you have seen that in terms of children being able to be sent as weere for treatment did you was is that

47:27

something that was you advocating for in the hospital you’re working on did you see it happen and if if it didn’t do you

47:32

think that is something that could be pushed further um I don’t think it’s a solution so there are a tiny tiny number

47:39

of people who who get evacuated for medical care um if you were to do it on

47:45

in terms of need it would be thousands going every month literally um because

47:54

what what’s not picked up by by a lot of the the statistics is children who’ve

48:00

had both legs blown off um you know people who’ve got ongoing problems as a

48:06

result um when I left the who was trying to construct a tented area within the

48:14

hospital grounds just to deal with um constructing prosthetic limbs for people

48:22

who who’d lost limbs in the war um you know it’s huge huge number um and of

48:31

course um you know one of the acronyms that that that is now used in in Gaza is

48:39

wounded child no surviving family you know you have so many children

48:44

who um come in as a result of a missile strike and all their relatives have been

48:50

killed um and then eventually somebody pitches up and says I’m a cousin um you

48:57

know I managed to come from a different part of Gaza um but it it you know what’s happening

49:04

to the children as app poing is I I I cannot tell you my

49:11

gratitude and the Gratitude of the committee for both you coming here today but for the work that you’ve done and if

49:18

you could express our deep thanks to your colleagues um who are doing the

49:23

same work day in day out we’ be very very grateful and please assure them

49:29

that you have spoken to us but we have also heard and we will do all that we can to act on your very profound

49:36

testimony um we’ll make sure that it it it’s heard for everybody that is in a

49:41

position to make changes on this horrific situation that you’ve described so eloquently to us thank you so much

49:47

for your time I do appreciate it thank you you I ask the next panel members to

49:54

please step forward um and could I also uh ask those that are online if they

50:01

could um join us and can we just check that the sound is working um we can’t

50:08

currently see those that are online if they could come up on our screens

50:13

please um but while we’re waiting for our colleagues online um if I could uh say

50:20

hello to um Sam Rose and Rohan tobert um Rohan you’ve been in front of of us

50:27

before so thank you very much for coming back um and it’s quite useful to have you on record from I think it was N9

50:33

months ago was January yeah to to look at how the situation has changed in that

50:39

time um while we’re waiting for our colleague

oooooo

ooo

Backlash against Scott Ritter

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq2jGx7mtgc)

There has been a change in Scott Ritter’s tone. And I don’t always agree with him. But what he is doing is soberly analysing and he does explicitly oppose war on Iran

Transkripzioa:

0:00

gary proctctor says “i don’t know what

0:02

happened to ritter he’s become a trump

0:04

apologist and thinks it’s okay to send a

0:06

threatening letter to a religious leader

0:09

ayatollah kami like he’s the pope.” i

0:13

don’t really agree with that there is a

0:15

change in uh scott ritter’s tone uh over

0:19

the last week or or two weeks his

0:23

comments about the massacre of mla ridge

0:27

the highway of death in the uh iraq war

0:31

of

0:33

1999 uh that sat very uncomfortably with

0:36

me for sure as does his commentary

0:39

tonight about iran but what he says he’s

0:43

doing and i think we have to give him

0:44

the benefit of the doubt is uh soberly

0:49

analyzing what is likely to happen that

0:53

does not mean he endorses it happening

0:56

indeed an attack on iran he explicitly

0:59

opposes the use of nuclear weapons low

1:02

yield or not he explicitly opposes so uh

1:07

i think you’re being way too hard on

1:09

scott ritter uh in this regard after all

1:13

uh we we we don’t pay him but if we paid

1:16

him we’d be paying him for his expertise

1:18

wouldn’t we and all he’s doing is giving

1:21

us the benefit of his expertise

oooooo

Ryan Milton@1860rm

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1903889366218399988

oooooo

Sarah Wilkinson@swilkinsonbc

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1904340096658133095

oooooo

ooo

Israeli Newspaper PROVES Netayanhu Planned Genocide

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yStvhHCRro)

I’ve hired a brilliant video editor and social media expert thanks to you. We’re doing new content on Instagram and TikTok to challenge the mainstream media, like this:   / dfsxyoxszqj   and   / dfkrerdvvea 

Transkripzioa:

0:00

this is a devastating Smoking Gun and

0:03

one of countless existing smoking guns

0:05

which underline which prove Israel’s

0:07

genocidal intent including that of

0:09

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin

0:11

Netanyahu who was of course wanted by

0:14

the international criminal call on

0:15

charges of war crimes and crimes against

0:17

humanity now it is important not to let

0:20

Netanyahu become the Fall Guy of course

0:23

is a mass murdering war criminal but

0:25

Israel’s genocide against the

0:27

Palestinian people is a collective

0:28

Endeavor by the isra State facilitated

0:31

not least by the United States of

0:32

America at the moment divisions have

0:34

opened up at the top of the Israeli

0:36

State driven partly by netanyahu’s

0:39

growing authoritarianism and his alleged

0:41

corruption which led the Israeli

0:44

government to dismiss the head of the

0:45

shinb Israel’s internal security

0:47

services which critics say is due to

0:50

scrutiny of alleged ties between

0:52

netanyahu’s office and the Qatari regime

0:54

that’s led to mass protest and Netanyahu

0:57

has pronounced there will be no Civil

0:58

War which is not normally regarded as a

1:01

reassuring statement to have to issue

1:04

pyah who has been Israel’s leader during

1:06

Israel’s genocide and just because

1:08

elements of the state may or may not

1:10

have motives for say leaking things

1:12

doesn’t mean it’s not true and with that

1:13

in mind we turn to a story in an Israel

1:16

newspaper online why is the portal of

1:19

yedo aano which is the biggest newspaper

1:22

in Israel by circulation it’s a story

1:25

about herel haly who was the chief of

1:27

the general staff of the so-called

1:29

Israel Defense forces from January 2023

1:32

to this month that is during 7 October

1:34

and almost the entirety of the genocide

1:38

the article is in Hebrew but when

1:39

translated into English it says the

1:42

following when halavi presented the

1:44

idf’s operations to the cabinet in the

1:47

first 48 Hours of the war he noted that

1:49

the Air Force had attacked 1,500 Targets

1:52

in Gaza this is a huge number requiring

1:54

exceptional intelligence and operational

1:56

capabilities Netanyahu erupted in Anger

1:59

yelling and banging on the table why not

2:02

5,000 he scolded the chief of staff we

2:05

don’t have 5,000 approved targets Hal

2:07

replied I’m not interested in targets

2:10

Netanyahu rorted take down houses bomb

2:15

with everything you

2:17

have you have here a revelation of

2:20

straightforward genocidal intent by

2:21

Netanyahu at the beginning of the

2:23

genocide the journalist here goes on to

2:25

right the Outburst was part of what was

2:27

laser described by Gaddy Isaac gotot and

2:30

others as a collapsing netanyahu’s

2:32

performance in the early days of the war

2:34

the officers I met in those days said

2:37

that Netanyahu had lost his judgment now

2:39

Gaddy Eisen Cott is himself a former

2:42

Chief of Staff of the IDF and served in

2:43

Israel’s post 7th of October Unity

2:45

government as a minister without

2:48

portfolio the officers refer to of

2:50

course are Military Officers well

2:51

regardless of what the Military Officers

2:52

wanted and many of those May well fear

2:54

themselves being slapped with

2:56

International arrest WS which they

2:57

should be slapped with like Netanyahu

2:59

the fact fact is he was the leader of

3:00

the country making those demands and

3:03

what he was demanding was extermination

3:05

he was demanding indiscriminate bombing

3:07

and the destruction of houses of

3:09

people’s homes that’s what he was

3:11

calling for people’s private homes and

3:13

the use of Israel’s entire Armory to do

3:15

so as the US lawyer Dylan Williams notes

3:19

this Netanyahu quote reported by an

3:21

Israel Outlet constitutes PR F evidence

3:24

of the war crime of intentionally

3:26

directing an attack against a civilian

3:28

population and intent to kill to destroy

3:31

in part a national or ethnic group

3:34

elements of the crime of genocide now

3:39

this anecdote is corroborated by what

3:41

Joe Biden said when describing his

3:43

conversation with Netanyahu after the

3:45

first week or so after 7th October um he

3:48

said that Netanyahu had been warned by

3:50

himself he said he said to Netanyahu

3:52

stop carpet bombing communities but

3:55

clearly there was no shift in Israeli

3:57

policy so the US just facilitated that

3:59

carpet bombing with a Relentless supply

4:00

of weapons now as research by the NGO

4:03

air wars found at least

4:05

5,139 Palestinians were killed by the

4:07

Israeli Army in October 2023 that’s the

4:10

period the article uh was discussing and

4:14

of those at least 1,900 were children

4:16

AWS concluded it is by far the most

4:18

intense destructive and fatal Conflict

4:20

for civilians that AWS has ever

4:22

documented They concluded that all the

4:24

incidents examined in this

4:25

indiscriminate destruction demanded by

4:27

Netanyahu 99.4% of incidents killed

4:29

civilians and 0.6% killed militants so

4:34

we can link the genocidal intent of

4:35

Netanyahu expressed in the article with

4:37

the genocidal consequences it’s just

4:40

worth taking a moment to reflect on

4:42

something all the way through this

4:45

genocide the claims that the Israeli

4:47

state was mainly targeting Hamas

4:49

militants in a so-called war that Israel

4:51

was doing its best to avoid civilian

4:53

casualties that civilian deaths were

4:54

caused by hamas’s use of so-called human

4:56

Shields all of these claims were treated

4:58

not only as risible they formed the

5:00

dominant narrative in the western media

5:02

the few were the mainstream platform who

5:04

dissented from such obscene absurd

5:07

claims were the ones treated as Fringe

5:09

as extreme the ones promoting outrageous

5:11

smears blood lials indeed anti-semitic

5:14

or Hamas apologist smears against Israel

5:17

even as Gaza was reduced to Rubble

5:19

before our eyes even as tens of

5:21

thousands were butchered and this tiny

5:22

strip of land was turned into a mass

5:24

grave it was obvious from the very

5:26

beginning what Israel was doing given

5:28

the incessant

5:30

public genocidal statements made by

5:33

Israeli leaders by Israeli officials

5:35

that Israel was deliberately killing

5:36

civilians on a mass scale this is a very

5:40

important point the killing of

5:41

Palestinian civilians was not simply the

5:43

inevitable unfortunate consequence of

5:45

disproportionate military action which

5:47

is about as far as some Western media

5:48

Outlets were prepared to even debate the

5:50

killing of civilians Wass and is

5:52

deliberate the slaughter of civilians is

5:56

intentional It Is by Design it’s also

5:59

worth reflecting on an article published

6:01

again in the Israeli newspaper um harits

6:03

in July 2024 according to this article

6:06

as soon as the war with Hamas began on

6:08

October 7th prime minister Benjamin

6:10

Netanyahu ordered that the Army’s

6:12

recording system be turned off in the

6:14

command center at Army Headquarters

6:16

which is where all security cabinet

6:18

meetings and other defense related

6:19

meetings were being held in those days

6:22

the Army complied with this order

6:24

according to Harret the recording system

6:26

is automatically in operation records

6:28

everything but Netanyahu demanded that

6:31

security cabinet meetings and indeed any

6:33

other meetings he specified would no

6:35

longer be recorded or transcribed by the

6:38

IDF but only by the prime minister’s

6:41

office this is an extremely convenient

6:43

way of suppressing evidence of criminal

6:45

and indeed genocidal intent of the sort

6:48

reported in that isra newspaper but what

6:50

of the plans being proposed now well the

6:52

financial times explains that the

6:54

Israeli military has drawn up plans to

6:56

reconquer Gaza in a bid to finally

6:58

defeat Hamas it’s not yet been approved

7:00

by the security cabinet it had been

7:02

devised by the new IDF Chief of Staff

7:04

with the unofficial backing of farite

7:06

ministers frankly it’s terrifying Gaza

7:09

is already one of the most densely

7:10

populated communities on Earth although

7:12

we don’t know how many of course of its

7:15

preg genocide population has been

7:16

slaughtered it was about 2.3 million um

7:19

it has a land area similar to East

7:22

London this plan proposes confining what

7:26

remains of this population into a tiny

7:28

area of Gaza coded the al- Marazzi

7:31

humanitarian area the plan would then

7:33

mean administering Gaza and reoccupying

7:35

it but not like last time because this

7:37

population would be forced into what in

7:39

practice would be an intolerable

7:41

concentration camp indeed chillingly the

7:44

financial times reports one of the

7:46

people people familiar with the

7:47

deliberation said Israel could take over

7:49

the distribution of all humanitarian Aid

7:51

and had recently assessed how many

7:53

calories each Palestinian would

7:56

require you see this whole crime

7:59

involves no socialy on the beginning it

8:01

was executed in plain sight I want to

8:03

end by referring to another story in the

8:06

Israeli newspaper haritz it’s B Israeli

8:09

academic named Dr Sebastian Ben Daniel

8:11

from the computer science department of

8:13

benan University he said that Israeli

8:16

soldiers have been taught to be baby

8:17

killers 20 senior faculty members at the

8:20

University have publicly demanded he’d

8:22

be fired because in Israel you see if

8:24

you speak the truth about the genocide

8:26

being committed by your state you will

8:27

face the consequences whilst you can

8:29

openly incite genocide against the

8:31

entire people issue the most extreme

8:32

racist dehumanizing and murder

8:34

statements about Palestinians are not

8:36

only not suffer adverse consequences but

8:39

be treated as respectable even be

8:41

venerated hell you’re probably a cabinet

8:43

minister well the evidence for Israel’s

8:45

genocide is overwhelming and those who

8:47

denied what was obviously the case from

8:49

day one will be held by C please like

8:51

And subscribe with your thoughts and

8:52

your comments help us take on the pro

8:54

genocide media patreon.com jo4 AC course

8:57

I do keep following on Instagram Tik Tok

8:59

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9:01

we’re reaching huge numbers of people

9:02

but that’s all thanks to you um so we

9:05

will continue to do so with your support

9:07

um you can listen to on the podcast as

9:08

well uh share the video get the message

9:10

out I’ll speak to you a bit