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• 

  joseba says:

  2023/01/22 at 05:03

  The CIA’s 75-Year Love Affair With Nazis In Ukraine

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O5HjEIk0oI

  Transkripzioa:

  0:08
  many are now aware of U.S funding and
  0:11
  CIA training of the mujahideen in
  0:13
  Afghanistan that later led to the rise
  0:15
  of Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden which
  0:18
  massively backfired against the U.S now
  0:20
  publicly available Declassified
  0:22
  documents show the cia’s hand in
  0:25
  developing the Ukrainian nationalists
  0:27
  aka the Nazis in Ukraine here with us to
  0:31
  dive deeper into what these documents
  0:33
  reveal is journalists and historian Lori
  0:35
  Spencer Lori welcome to the show
  0:38
  thank you Kim great to be here
  0:40
  so walk us through what was what these
  0:43
  Declassified documents are saying when
  0:45
  did they begin this program
  0:48
  well we didn’t first of all I should say
  0:51
  we didn’t even know about this program
  0:52
  until the early 2000s the documents were
  0:56
  Declassified under the Nazi war crimes
  1:00
  disclosure Act
  1:02
  wow as it turns out the CIA had quite a
  1:04
  bit to disclose
  1:07
  these programs began almost immediately
  1:10
  after World War II ended
  1:13
  and really you could trace it back a bit
  1:16
  if we could rewind to April of 1945 uh
  1:21
  when Winston Churchill basically started
  1:23
  what we call the Cold War
  1:25
  and Churchill came up with a plan called
  1:28
  operation unthinkable
  1:30
  the plan was to stab the Soviets in the
  1:33
  back after they had just won World War
  1:36
  II Winston Churchill then decided that
  1:39
  communism was the greater threat and
  1:41
  that the Allies should all band together
  1:44
  and use repurposed Nazi soldiers that
  1:47
  were prisoners of War
  1:49
  to invade the Soviet Union
  1:52
  there was even talk of using nuclear
  1:54
  weapons
  1:55
  and there are several programs related
  1:58
  to that as well so they started working
  2:01
  with American intelligence and this is
  2:03
  before the CIA was even created
  2:06
  we’re talking about the OSS we’re
  2:08
  talking about military intelligence
  2:11
  and when the CIA was created in 1947
  2:15
  they took a great interest in these
  2:19
  factions
  2:20
  inside the USSR in Ukraine that we’re
  2:25
  Nazi war criminals had collaborated with
  2:27
  the Nazis during the war
  2:29
  and that includes Stefan Bandera that
  2:33
  includes uh Melnick and Nicola lebed and
  2:38
  some other nefarious characters see I
  2:41
  thought they might be useful because the
  2:43
  goal was to overthrow the government of
  2:46
  the Soviet Union
  2:47
  [Music]
  2:48
  so this is making a lot of sense when
  2:51
  you think about it because Ukraine was
  2:54
  at that point the USSR we were entering
  2:57
  into that cold war so we wanted to do
  2:59
  everything that we could admit much of
  3:00
  the many of the wars that were waged
  3:02
  after World War II and even as we see
  3:05
  now have been essentially aimed at the
  3:08
  USSR now Russia and trying to
  3:11
  destabilize them or well really not
  3:14
  destabilize as much because they were
  3:15
  proxy wars all around the world but
  3:17
  mostly to
  3:18
  um really drain them of money I think
  3:21
  was probably one of the big purposes of
  3:22
  all and and to stop their expansion
  3:25
  their influence around the world so it
  3:27
  makes sense that they would have this
  3:29
  kind of eye on Ukraine especially if
  3:31
  they have these sort of insiders but how
  3:33
  did they so they’ve I mean but these
  3:36
  people were inside of Ukraine so do we
  3:38
  know from these documents how they were
  3:40
  able to get in touch with these
  3:43
  particular people train these particular
  3:46
  people inside of the USSR
  3:48
  it’s one thing to be outside of the USSR
  3:50
  like West like uh West Germany at that
  3:53
  point right because you’re right on the
  3:54
  border of East Germany near the USSR
  3:58
  territory but not in it so do we know
  4:01
  how they got in and they were able to
  4:03
  train inside the USSR
  4:06
  that’s a very good question and the
  4:09
  documents reveal how this worked you
  4:11
  know these uh war criminals were wanted
  4:15
  by the Soviet Union they were wanted men
  4:18
  so you know towards the end of World War
  4:21
  II when the writing was on the wall that
  4:23
  that Germany was going to surrender they
  4:26
  skedaddled and most of them went to West
  4:30
  Germany
  4:32
  um Stefan Bandera was set a hideout up
  4:35
  in the Bavarian Alps
  4:37
  so he made contact with American
  4:40
  intelligence and MI6 as did some of his
  4:43
  co-conspirators
  4:45
  they were in hiding they could not
  4:47
  return safely to the USSR and that’s
  4:52
  when the CIA started coming up with
  4:54
  projects such as aerodynamic
  4:58
  which was one of their well not one of
  5:01
  their best ideas the idea was to
  5:04
  literally parachute these guys drop them
  5:08
  into the Soviet Union into Ukraine
  5:11
  and they would train arm fund with
  5:16
  taxpayer dollars these Insurgent
  5:19
  gorillas
  5:21
  to do
  5:23
  guerrilla warfare after the war you
  5:26
  could say that the war was still on
  5:28
  nobody told these guys World War II was
  5:30
  over
  5:32
  yeah
  5:33
  yeah so so now we see that these from
  5:36
  these documents and these have been out
  5:37
  like you said for a long time with this
  5:40
  disclosure this what was it called this
  5:42
  is I mean it was called the Nazi war
  5:45
  crimes disclosure act Nazi war crimes
  5:48
  disclosure act do we know you know were
  5:51
  there any did they try to go after
  5:53
  anybody and have them held accountable
  5:56
  for these types of things these types of
  5:59
  programs or
  6:01
  I mean why were they why did they need
  6:02
  to disclose this if they weren’t going
  6:04
  to actually do something about it
  6:06
  that’s a good question
  6:08
  not really sure about that by the time
  6:10
  this is all disclosed
  6:12
  all these guys were dead
  6:14
  uh okay but their legs there was nobody
  6:16
  left to prosecute right okay but the
  6:19
  legacy of uh what has been going on
  6:22
  really the training so this does seem a
  6:25
  lot like what happened with the
  6:26
  mujahideen in Afghanistan in a lot of
  6:28
  ways you know and that was for the exact
  6:30
  same purpose right the mujahideen we
  6:32
  funded and trained in an effort to stop
  6:35
  the Soviets it was that they were going
  6:37
  to fight and give the Soviets a real
  6:39
  heck of a time
  6:41
  um which you know Hillary Clinton even
  6:42
  famously was laughing about recently
  6:44
  saying well this is gonna with the
  6:45
  Ukraine war this is gonna play out as
  6:48
  well for the Russians as it did against
  6:50
  the mujahideen uh which also did not
  6:53
  play out very well for the United States
  6:55
  or anyone in the West for that matter
  6:56
  when it comes to the development of
  6:58
  these organizations of these terrorist
  7:00
  organizations so
  7:01
  um but now interestingly we are not
  7:04
  fighting against these Nazis as uh you
  7:08
  know like we did with the mujahideen
  7:10
  becoming Al-Qaeda right right instead
  7:13
  we’re are continuing to fund and arm and
  7:18
  even now
  7:19
  in a lot of ways Revere them I mean we
  7:22
  saw with what was going on in southern
  7:25
  Ukraine with the the Takeover there of
  7:28
  the azov Battalion and you know of the
  7:31
  steel plant and then the and they were
  7:33
  revered as Heroes and these were the
  7:36
  exact these are the definite I guess the
  7:39
  predecessors or um the descendants of
  7:42
  the these people that were trained by
  7:44
  the CIA is that what we’re seeing from
  7:47
  these documents
  7:48
  absolutely and you know the Stefan
  7:52
  Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine
  7:57
  why is that his birthday every year is a
  8:00
  national holiday
  8:01
  and the guy was the Nazi war criminal
  8:04
  right what is it that the ukrainians I
  8:06
  mean I I can’t imagine every Ukrainian
  8:07
  is a Nazi you know they’re they’re not
  8:09
  revering Nazis or in their mind I would
  8:11
  think the average Ukrainian doesn’t
  8:13
  think that they’re revering Nazis right
  8:15
  right so what is it about Bandera that
  8:18
  they that the average non-nazi Ukrainian
  8:21
  finds appealing why would they Revere
  8:24
  this guy do we know
  8:26
  yes they look upon him as a freedom
  8:28
  fighter
  8:30
  um you know and Ukraine is in that uh
  8:34
  position of being stuck between Western
  8:37
  Europe and Russia
  8:39
  and you could really split Ukraine right
  8:42
  down the middle western Ukraine has
  8:44
  always been more favorable to Europe
  8:46
  they want to be part of Europe they have
  8:48
  more European ways which is why they
  8:51
  ended up allying themselves with Germany
  8:54
  in the second world war eastern Ukraine
  8:57
  very that’s Soviet country and to this
  9:00
  day they still look upon Joseph Stalin
  9:02
  as a hero
  9:04
  um you know this they love the Soviet
  9:06
  Union and many of them want to see the
  9:08
  Soviet Union restored
  9:10
  these Ukrainian nationalists the mindset
  9:14
  was always that they didn’t really have
  9:16
  loyalty to either side
  9:19
  they were fighting for the independence
  9:22
  and sovereignty of Ukraine and sometimes
  9:25
  they’d work with the Soviets when it was
  9:28
  beneficial to them
  9:29
  sometimes they’d work with Nazi Germany
  9:31
  when it was beneficial to them and
  9:34
  sometimes they’d work with MI6 in the
  9:36
  United States like no it’s all right
  9:38
  though it’s okay I mean it is you know
  9:40
  your camera is sometimes Tech happens
  9:42
  Tech happens you know
  9:44
  um it would happen now right well that’s
  9:47
  okay it’s okay what happens
  9:50
  um so basically when it comes to so
  9:52
  you’ve got these people in Ukraine now a
  9:54
  lot of them love Stephen Bandera they uh
  9:57
  they Revere him they see him as a
  9:59
  freedom fighter understand that but you
  10:02
  know what’s really interesting is the
  10:04
  lack of accountability that Ukraine has
  10:07
  even had when it comes to World War II
  10:09
  and their role in the Holocaust right
  10:11
  like one thing that when I’d been over
  10:14
  to Germany the Germans the German people
  10:16
  would actually kind of state that they
  10:18
  had a little bit of angst even against
  10:20
  Austria for not really owning up to
  10:23
  their role they always felt like Austria
  10:25
  wasn’t doing enough to own up to its
  10:28
  Nazi past so but you know what’s
  10:30
  interesting is no one has ever talked
  10:32
  about Ukraine and the past that Ukraine
  10:34
  has can you explain to us a little bit
  10:36
  of how Ukraine you know I know that
  10:38
  there was this
  10:40
  um that there certainly were a lot of
  10:42
  the Nazi Germans that were imported over
  10:44
  into Ukraine like you said like the
  10:46
  prisoners or they were over there but
  10:48
  how did you were the Ukrainian people
  10:51
  also very much aligned uh like the
  10:54
  austrians were or is it that these are
  10:57
  descendants coming from Nazi Germany and
  11:00
  Austria that ended up in Ukraine and
  11:02
  that these people are actually
  11:03
  descendants of austrians and Germans so
  11:07
  do you know if the people in Ukraine do
  11:09
  you know if the people in Ukraine
  11:11
  um are the the Nazis that are there the
  11:13
  people that have been or we should say
  11:15
  historically the ones that were there
  11:17
  trained by the CIA just to clarify were
  11:21
  these imported in from Germany and
  11:23
  Austria or were they actual ukrainians
  11:26
  because you mentioned that they were
  11:28
  prisoners or that they were
  11:30
  um so because I I’ve heard differing
  11:33
  accounts that a lot of those okay so
  11:37
  some of them were actually this is the
  11:38
  correct answer but the the nationalists
  11:40
  were definitely Ukrainian they were of
  11:43
  Ukrainian origin Soviet origin
  11:46
  which makes them traitors to their
  11:49
  country
  11:50
  and that’s exactly why Stalin had his
  11:53
  agents out there hunting them and
  11:55
  sometimes he was successful
  11:58
  um Stefan Bandera for example was
  12:01
  tracked by the KGB for years
  12:04
  um and as a matter of fact
  12:07
  in these documents it’s revealed that
  12:10
  Bandera was in the process of getting a
  12:14
  visa to come to the United States the
  12:17
  CIA was going to bring him to the United
  12:20
  States
  12:21
  the very next day October 15th I believe
  12:25
  1959
  12:28
  Bandera was assassinated by a KGB
  12:31
  assassin with cyanide
  12:34
  before he could come to the United
  12:36
  States
  12:37
  however his second in command Banderas
  12:40
  second in command was a man named mikola
  12:43
  labid I believe is how you pronounce his
  12:45
  name and he was in fact recruited
  12:49
  personally by Alan Dulles director of
  12:53
  the CIA who brought him to the United
  12:55
  States despite the fact that he had a
  12:58
  murder conviction for war crimes which
  13:02
  should have prevented his entry into
  13:04
  this country and there’s a letter in
  13:06
  these documents and I’ve posted it in my
  13:09
  Twitter thread you can look at it
  13:12
  um where you can see Alan Dulles writing
  13:14
  to the Bureau of immigration and saying
  13:18
  look I’ve got this guy in Ukraine who’s
  13:21
  vitally important to our interests can
  13:25
  you look the other way
  13:27
  and let him into the country and they
  13:29
  did so labed came to New York City and
  13:33
  the CIA set him up with a publishing
  13:35
  company which was a CIA front called
  13:38
  prologue publishing and his job was
  13:41
  basically to publish pro-ukrainian
  13:43
  propaganda for the Ukrainian community
  13:46
  in the United States
  13:48
  hmm
  13:50
  anti-soviet propaganda
  13:52
  and this went on for years and years I
  13:55
  believe lebed lived into he lived to a
  13:59
  ripe old age
  14:00
  and was never held accountable for
  14:02
  anything
  14:04
  that he did during World War II well
  14:07
  a lot of this stuff right now I
  14:09
  understand that you know we’re using
  14:11
  these people still we’re using the
  14:13
  descendants of this of of you know just
  14:15
  like uh we had the descendants of the
  14:18
  mujahideen that ultimately ended up
  14:19
  rising up and fighting against the
  14:21
  United States and Western interests
  14:24
  really against Western imperialism in
  14:26
  their own area of the world and you know
  14:29
  now this time with these uh Ukrainian
  14:32
  Nazis ultimately these nationalists they
  14:35
  are unfortunately still on the US’s side
  14:38
  of this like we’re not even though we’ve
  14:41
  admitted over the years of having this
  14:43
  problem in Ukraine there have been
  14:44
  numerous mainstream media reports
  14:47
  talking over the past years of the of
  14:49
  the Nazi problem in Ukraine and then
  14:51
  suddenly of course the war breaks out
  14:52
  and there are no Nazis in Ukraine right
  14:55
  they’re they’re just not there anymore
  14:56
  right yeah suddenly even though
  14:58
  mainstream media had admitted for many
  15:00
  many years that where there was a Nazi
  15:01
  problem so
  15:03
  um really you know unfortunate that
  15:05
  we’re still we’re still arming them
  15:07
  we’re still training them bringing even
  15:09
  some potentially over to the United
  15:10
  States to train in Oklahoma to get ready
  15:13
  for you know to be able to use bigger
  15:15
  better weapons against Russia
  15:18
  um you know and uh and I think this is a
  15:20
  warning right this is a warning when we
  15:22
  look at what happened with the hadeen
  15:23
  that this could eventually backfire on
  15:25
  us at some point or at least backfire on
  15:26
  the west uh Poland very much could
  15:29
  backfire against Poland would be my
  15:31
  guess and that Poland might have a real
  15:33
  problem with this
  15:34
  um in the future when they realize that
  15:36
  a certain faction has been really
  15:39
  Amplified and
  15:42
  supported and it very much could
  15:44
  backfire against them in particular
  15:47
  that’s very very true and that’s my
  15:49
  concern as well and you know it’s
  15:52
  important to point out when you go
  15:53
  through these documents and there are
  15:55
  thousands and thousands of them it’ll
  15:57
  take you a while but it’s an interesting
  15:59
  read
  16:00
  you’ll also find that many in the CIA
  16:04
  especially right after World War II had
  16:08
  serious reservations about working with
  16:11
  the Ukrainian nationalists for these
  16:13
  very reasons that you just speak of
  16:17
  um there was a lot of disagreement
  16:19
  within the agency a lot of back and
  16:21
  forth but this is what Alan Dulles
  16:24
  wanted yeah and what Alan Dulles wants
  16:27
  Alan Dulles gets well that guy is a real
  16:31
  uh character that we should be diving
  16:33
  into at some point uh he seems to have
  16:35
  his hand in a lot of Nefarious
  16:36
  activities for the United States so we
  16:39
  will definitely talk more about him in
  16:40
  the future Lori thank you so much for
  16:42
  being here where can people find your
  16:43
  work
  16:45
  you can find me on YouTube at Lori
  16:48
  Spencer and I’m on Twitter at real
  16:51
  Laurie Spencer and you can read lots and
  16:54
  lots of my research into the cia’s dirty
  16:59
  deals not just in Ukraine but I’m also a
  17:03
  specialist in the JFK assassination and
  17:06
  which still has some lots of interesting
  17:08
  information on Alan Dulles in that case
  17:12
  as well yeah all right Lori thank you so
  17:15
  much for being here
  17:16
  it’s great talking to you Kim thanks for
  17:18
  having me