Nazio Batuen Erakundea (NBE) eta Nazioarteko Arlo Penaleko Epaitegia (NAPE) (17)

Transkripzioa:

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All right, guys. We are very fortunate to be joined today by Professor Saxs of Columbia University, who is an economist

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and worldrenowned thinker and best-selling author. Um, scarcely needs an introduction. Many things to speak with you about today, sir. Thank you for

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joining us. Great to be with you. Thank you. Yeah, of course. So, let me start with this um pretty wild letter that the

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president of the United States apparently sent to the prime minister of Norway. So, here we go. It says, um,

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“Dear Jonas, considering your country decided not to give me the Nobel Peace

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Prize for having stopped eight wars plus, I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of peace, although it will

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always be predominant, but can now think about what is good and proper for the United States of America. Denmark cannot

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protect that land being Greenland from Russia or China. And why do they have a right of ownership anyway? There are no

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written documents. It’s only that a boat landed there hundreds of years ago. But we had boats landing there also. I’ve

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done more for NATO than any other person since its founding. And now NATO should do something for the United States. The

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world is not secure unless we have complete and total control of Greenland. Thank you, President DJT. Uh what do you

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make of this extraordinary Thank you for your attention to this matter. Yes, exactly. Which um was not only sent

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to, you know, Prime Minister of Norway, but was also sent to apparently a number of European ambassadors.

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Well, uh I I think it’s terrifying because either he’s insane or he’s not

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insane. Uh we don’t know which. But either way, uh it’s terrifying. Uh if

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this is serious and this is how a president speaks, we have lost our

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country, our democracy, our system, and our safety. uh if he is uh an old man uh

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with the megalum maniacal tendencies already uh and he’s over the edge which

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I think is perfectly possible though I’m not a psychologist uh this is also

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something that we’re seeing somebody who is decompensating in front of our eyes

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we had a president last time uh who collapsed on the job maybe it’s

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happening again Again, I have to say this is so strange,

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uh, wild, nuts, uh, that it’s not something that

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grown-ups in normal behavior would do under any circumstances, uh, much less

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someone who holds this office. uh if this is taken as clever or cute or

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normal, I think people should reexamine their thoughts about this. So I I find

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it frankly astounding. So zooming out uh professor uh there is

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a big you know now push by the United States kind of centering its relationship here with the European powers. Crystal, if we could put the uh

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Trump Truth Social up about sanction or sorry uh tariffs uh that are being put into place here. Uh President Trump

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saying we have subsidized all countries of the European Union etc. I will you know stick to the important part is that

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there will be tariffs increased to some 10% on Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, the UK, Netherlands and

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Finland. And the tariff will be increased to 25% beginning on June 1st. It’s time for Denmark uh to give back

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Greenland. So when we’re talking here a little bit about the relationship with the European powers by the United States

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and in the broader context, Greenland I think is important. I don’t think any of this would be happening without the

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sugar high that the administration is currently on after Venezuela and in particular, you know, after Midnight

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Hammer. those seem to have really convinced the president uh and his team the United States can truly be you know

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the world’s superpower and can act like this way in any sphere of the world in

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its demands. Uh what do you think the effects of this type of strategy and of

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belief system in the White House could wreak in terms of the international situation?

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Again, uh if uh this gang continues to

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pursue this course, this is not the will of the American people. This is not the

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will of Congress. This reflects uh no uh

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constitutional process whatsoever. This is a gangsterism.

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Um and gangsterism generally ends in shootouts. Uh so I think that this is a

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a a perilous and reckless course and um

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Europe sadly became essentially a vassel of the United

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States over the past 30 years. Uh in any event, so it barely can utter a word in

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its own defense. They’re scared of their shadow. uh they have been um rather

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pathetic. I’ve spoken to many European leaders over uh many years warning them

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about the direction of the United States. Uh it’s not only Trump. Trump is

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doing it in a crazy way. But this uh also reflects a kind of thuggery that

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the United States has been on for a long time. And um now it seems completely

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unhinged and uh of course we’re going to see

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whether uh any European power or country

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can actually express an honest view. Uh but they’re getting close at least. Uh

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the German government has said that Greenland is a very uh bright red line.

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Uh the French uh government at many different levels, foreign minister and

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president have uh expressed uh uh the

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fact that this will not be tolerated. Britain, which is of course I think the

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most delusional and subservient country and that’s been true for many many decades was able to utter a sentence at

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least that this is not acceptable by British standards. That’s quite remarkable. We should understand by the

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way that um more important things are happening in the world uh than this in

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many ways. A couple of days ago, the prime minister of Canada was in Beijing

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uh and Canada and China signed a strategic partnership. Very interesting.

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Uh because uh for Canada to do that

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reflects the fact that they understand that the United States has gone looney. uh has has really uh

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completely left uh any kind of normaly. I’m very happy that they have normal

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relations with China, but to declare it a strategic partnership, which I

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perfectly understand and I commend the premier of uh Canada for doing it um

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shows what Trump is actually doing. The idea that they’re on a sugar high

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because they’re succeeding one thing after another, I think is fundamentally wrong. It’s of course what’s pumped up

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hour to hour on true social. But I think nothing has been accomplished except to

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put the world on notice that the United States is out of control from any legal

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uh restrictions and any normal restrictions. Uh, of course I think this

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puts much of the world on high alert. Um, we are in a nuclear world. The

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United States is not alone in power. Uh, it is not invulnerable. It actually

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rarely gets its way. Uh, the United States does not run Venezuela, by the

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way. They kidnapped a president. They killed some people. They don’t run anything. They’ve commandeered a few

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ships, but nothing is settled uh on that score. Uh there is no way that the

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United States is going to own Greenland. Uh it’s not going to happen, although

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the United States may claim it. Uh so it could absolutely one day claim that

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Greenland is uh uh the United States, and I think that that’s actually likely

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by Trump. But that will not make Greenland part of the United States. It will make the United States an invader

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of Europe. That will dramatically change the scene. Uh so I don’t really feel

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that this is a a uh in in any way a

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demonstration of the United States being a superpower. I view it as a delusional

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uh unchecked period. And I can’t really say myself whether it is a a mental

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instability of a president or gangsterism uh that is uh premeditated

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and uh uh but uh thuggishness just on

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its own. It is not strategic. It does not increase America’s wealth or safety

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or security or the economy or anything else. There’s nothing that’s happening

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right now that sticks in a meaningful way for the benefit of MAGA or the

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benefit of the American people or the security of the American people or anything else. It’s a lot of uh it it’s

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it’s a lot of uh performance. Uh it’s it’s a lot of uh uh

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rather insane boasting and threatening uh and bombing, but nothing that’s

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happened in my view uh has any consequential benefit of any sort for

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the American people. uh even uh probably his friends that he’s enriching on each

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of these things uh on each of these actions probably that doesn’t last either. Uh this is just to my mind a

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massive and very dangerous instability. The fact that nobody in Washington

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in power in any office, I mean elected office, can find the words to express how

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bizarre and dangerous and completely unacceptable this is is a

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sign of how profoundly degraded our constitutional system is. Um, so I think

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that it is a warning to all of us. He’s invading Minnesota. the same way he’s

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invading Venezuela and he’s in the same way that he’s threatening to invade

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Greenland, it’s completely unhinged and it’s very dangerous. Let me go ahead and put up um this

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Financial Times tear sheet about the the European response here. So, it says the EU is readying some 93 billion euro

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tariffs and retaliation. You’ve got um Davos happen happening this week, the World Economic Forum. Um lots of

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conversations happening between European leaders. They’re supposed to be speaking with Trump as well. I mean, what would

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you what can they do? What would you advise them to do? Do you think that they have woken up and realize that they

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need to take a more assertive posture and assert some sort of sovereignty here? Because clearly the strategy of

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appeasement has failed. Yes. Uh that’s what I’ve been saying to them for

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many years uh and especially during the past year.

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But uh they’re very sad, semipathetic, uh scared of their shadow. Um and I

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don’t know whether they still remember uh how to be national leadersh sovereign

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countries or to act together. They’re showing a little bit of sign of this. Uh

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the tariff retaliation and all the rest is one thing. What they should be doing

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is saying unequivocally, we’re not negotiating. We’re not discussing.

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I won’t use the word that words that I would use uh and that I think that they

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ought to use in their private discussions, but basically they ought to say this is nuts. It’s not going down.

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We’re not even talking about it. So stop. That’s the most basic point. They

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ought to get together with Russia and China and India and other parts of the

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world and the bricks to say we cannot go daytoday with this kind of madness and

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treat it as normal because basically uh

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every country in the world is threatened by a completely lawless United States

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and they are they’ve expressed. They’ve explained, Mr. Miller has explained that

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there are no laws. Donald Trump has explained that there are no laws. We’re in the hands of a small number of people

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in a system that seems to have lost its voice and is unable to comprehend what’s

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happening. I should add that, you know, as we’re watching this, they were trying last week to overthrow the government of

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Iran. This was clearly a CIA operation from beginning to end with Mossad.

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That’s also a very lawless, reckless, dangerous action. And we are still close

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to a generalized war in the Middle East, which could well turn nuclear. That’s

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not gone away either. So either we as a country somehow regain some

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constitutional order or I think we are all imperiled.

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Professor, I do want to ask you because you were talking there about the Europeans and about our system. I think

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one of the problems that I see is for example the Europeans say that the sovereignty of Greenland is just total

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and complete and at the very same time uh the German uh chancellor called the Iranian government illegitimate and it’s

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time to fall as of you know I think a week ago uh for example all of them did not recognize Maduro as the president of

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Venezuela and they effectively supported uh the kidnapping by the United States and the current uh operations. If

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anything, their only qual is that we didn’t put boots on the ground and then force, you know, some sort of quote democratic transition. Um, you know, at

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the very same time, uh, this President Zilinski of Ukraine, whose country is literally being invaded, is supportive

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of regime change, um, in Iran. And even here in the US, while many congressmen

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and others may be upset, let’s say, over Greenland, they fundamentally agree with this idea. And hence why they didn’t

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have any war powers resolutions or anything else on Venezuela, on Iran. I mean, if anything, they were more

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hawkish than even the Trump administration was on Iran. Uh, and so it seems as if that fundamental

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hypocrisy in their stance and lack, not even just of principles, but they don’t believe in law whenever it benefits,

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let’s say, an agenda uh that goes to them seems to have opened the space through which something like this can happen because if they were to, let’s

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say, enforce something on Greenland, it would fundamentally call into questions their relations with multiple other states across the world and their very

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own foreign policy. Your points are absolutely right and

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extremely important. I would put it this way and I think it’s also really

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important to understand. The United States foreign policy has been lawless for many decades. Uh our presidents and

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our rhetoric have generally hidden that uh to a minor extent at least. But the

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kinds of thuggishness that Trump is displaying is part of American foreign

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policy. For a long time, we invaded Iraq not on wrong premises, but on completely

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false premises. We overthrew the government of Syria in a CIA operation

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that went on for 14 years. We bombed Libya to uh uh oblivion and created what

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has now been 15 years of civil war in that country. We overthrew helped to

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overthrow a government in Ukraine in February 2014 that put us on the path of

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war. You won’t find almost any of this in the New York Times or the Washington

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Post. God forbid that’s the CIA outlet or the Wall Street Journal which just

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chroles on who’s going to make money on what particular venture. The lawlessness

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has been there for a long time. It’s coming unhinged though with Trump in the

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last few weeks because now everything I is open game and that’s why I say that

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there may be something psychological or something constitutional or something gangsterism in this but the pace of the

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lawlessness and the brazenness of it uh and the boasting of the absence of any

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restraints is something new compared even to the lawlessness before. Now the

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Europeans used to object once in a while to this. Uh there used to be European

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leaders who objected to the Iraq war for example. They said it was uh not

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correct. It was dangerous. Uh I knew those leaders. We don’t have them in

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Europe for the last 15 years. It’s an interesting uh question why uh I think

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uh they are afraid of the United States and afraid of Russia and very weak

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internally and basically uh they have this political class has been raised by

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the the CIA and the American deep state and all of the organizations uh the

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Atlantic Council and the German Marshall Fund and all of these favorite and Davos and everybody else. you better play the

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American game if you want to have political success. So, they have lost their voice entirely. And it’s shocking

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for me because I rather like Europe and always hoped that Europe would be a

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stabilizing influence on an extraordinarily violent US foreign policy. They dropped that. By the way,

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the Ukraine war was a complete provocation by the United States. And

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that’s why the New York Times, which is our phony newspaper, reported that it was unprovoked a thousand times

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precisely because it was provoked by the United States by overthrowing a government in order for NATO to enlarge.

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Okay. Now, having said all of that, the Europeans would not tell the truth in

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public about this at all. I speak to the leaders. Some of them even know it in private. Some do not know it. But the

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ones that know it in private won’t say it in public. So, we’ve had a situation

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where you’re completely right. Uh Europe went along with every abuse. And let’s

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remember, we have just been complicit in a genocidal operation in Gaza. So, this

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isn’t theoretical about what’s going to happen to Greenland. We had a genocide

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in Gaza before our eyes in the last year which the United States funded, armed,

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supported with military intelligence and gave full diplomatic backing to. That’s

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by the way both Biden and uh Trump. So we’re in and the Europeans couldn’t

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utter a word. Uh, interestingly, I was uh at the UN Security Council uh after

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uh the Israelis bombed uh Iran. So around the table, all the

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Europeans said they made warnings to Iran. You better show restraint. Not one

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of them challenged Israel for having just bombed Iran. I actually ironically

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had a little colloqui with the ambassador to Denmark because I went up

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to her uh after her rather shocking words and uh said that how much I like

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Denmark and in a publication that I co-edit every year, the World Happiness Report, Denmark’s always at the top, the

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happiest country in the world. And she was very happy. Uh, she smiled at me and then I said, “But wouldn’t it be nice if

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you mentioned not Iran’s restraint, but that Israel just bombed Iran?”

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She turned around and walked out uh without a word. That’s the level of uh

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the reality. Same thing happened with the kidnapping of Maduro. All they could

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get out of their mouth was, “Well, he’s a terrible person or he’s an illegitimate president.” No one could

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say a word about the United States brazantly violating the UN charter and

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its implications. So, you’re completely right. I don’t want to attack the Europeans when they’re being attacked,

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but I do want to say that uh consistency that actually we should follow some

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principles is what keeps us all alive, we hope. And uh if Europe doesn’t utter

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a word when the United States makes every abuse, every regime change, uh

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every covert operation, every bombing, uh every complicity in Israel’s crimes,

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then they turn around and are surprised about Denmark.

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It’s it’s a little sad. By the way, if I don’t know if we have time, I would would like to just find you a statement.

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uh if I can find it that I read that I said to uh let me see if I can uh find

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it quickly. I’m sorry to take the time but No problem. Please go ahead. I I spoke to the European Parliament a

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year ago and I told them

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this is going to happen and they thought what what’s the matter with you Mr. Saxs?

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So I want to read you what I said. This is verbatim cuz it it shows you could

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see I said to the parliamentarians. So I’m not saying that we’re all at the new

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age of peace, but we are in a very different kind of politics right now. A return to great power politics. Europe

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needs its own foreign policy and not just a foreign policy of rousophobia. Europe needs a foreign policy that is

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realistic, understands Russia’s situation, understands Europe’s situation, understands what America is

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and what it stands for, and that tries to avoid Europe being invaded by the United States. It’s certainly not

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impossible that Trump’s America will land troops in Greenland. I’m not joking, and I don’t think Trump is

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joking. Europe needs a foreign policy, a real one. Europe needs something different from yes, we’ll bargain with

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Mr. Trump and meet him halfway. Do you know what that will be like? Give me a call afterwards. That’s what I told

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them. Okay. When I told them this, they were not impressed.

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Oh, Mr. Sachs, you’re exaggerating and America’s not so bad and blah blah blah.

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They don’t understand. But most of the world doesn’t understand. And most of my neighbors on the upper west side of New

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York do not understand because they read the New York Times. I’m sorry to say. I’m going to pick on it one more time

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because the violence, the regime change,

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the brutality of American foreign policy is not exposed and not discussed in

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polite company. Except now Trump to his bizarre

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credit, I can’t use that word in a full sentence with him, but he’s at least

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saying out loud the brazen truth that there is no law and no constraint for

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the US. Incidentally, I think it was Yes, it I think it’s the Washington Post today

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that ran a story that said how terrible Putin is. Everyone sees he’s a liar

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because he doesn’t come to the defense of this country and that country and this country. Instead of saying how

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terrible it is our president of the United States is bombing and attacking and so forth, the Washington Post, which

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is the mouthpiece of the intelligence agencies, twists it so that it’s Putin

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that’s the villain because he doesn’t respond to Trump’s thugery. So Putin’s a liar because he doesn’t stand up to

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Trump’s thugery rather than an article that Trump is a thug and maybe it’s uh

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it’s a dangerous thing for the world that the United States is led by a gangster group. So that’s where we are.

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I I want to um talk to you a little bit about this being in tempmperate. No, you’re fine.

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Making logical sense to me. Everybody wants to hear you speak. No, no, I’m sorry. It’s just uh it gets

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worse and worse, more brazen, more shocking, and um

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it’s Trump’s style is to normalize this and and that is absolutely

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uh grotesque. Sorry. Um you I I wanted to talk to you too um

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you know, in the context of all of this about this board of peace proposal from

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Trump. Have you uh have you dug into the details here? Here’s some of the latest reporting from from Bloomberg. Uh Trump wants nations

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to pay $1 billion to stay on peace board. I’ll just read you a little bit of this. The Trump administration is

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asking countries that want a permanent spot on his new board of peace to contribute at least $1 billion according

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to a draft charter for the proposed group seen by Bloomberg. Trump himself would serve as its inaugural chairman,

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would decide on who is invited to be members. decisions would be taken by a majority with each member state present getting one vote, but all would be

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subject to the chairman’s approval. Um, each member state shall serve a term of no more than three years. The three-year

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membership term shall not apply to member states that contribute more than USD $1 billion in cash funds to the

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Board of Peace. Um, we also have news that, you know, of a variety of countries that have been invited,

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apparently Putin himself has been invited onto the board of peace. This was all originally conceived, you know,

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in the context of this quote unquote peace plan in Gaza, but now apparently

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the board of peace is being positioned as sort of a Trumpun alternative to the

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UN. How do you view this? What is he up to here?

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If George Orwell had written it, you would think it uh mildly funny uh

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clever. Uh you might uh view this in a

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Marvel comic strip uh as uh somebody aiming to run the world. Um I view this

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as uh sad and pathetic. I said a year ago to many leaders

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when uh Trump’s so-called peace plan for Gaza was put forward that this was

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a travesty and a trap and after a genocide. Uh this is not how things

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should proceed. Uh things should proceed with a state of Palestine and

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Palestinians in charge of reconstruction. God forbid Israel should

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have some responsibility to rebuild after they’ve killed probably hundreds

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of thousands and destroyed uh this area.

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But uh actually Trump prevailed on one

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leader after another because he threatened them, he bribed them. He told

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them you can’t have data centers unless you do this. You can’t have this missile system unless you do this. He um he he

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twisted everything out of shape and got that plan approved. Now he’s doing doing

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it again. Uh this is shambolic. Uh he’s got his hedge fund friends. He’s got uh

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you can’t even joke about putting Tony Blair on this since the British are the

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most responsible for having screwed up the Middle East for the last century of anybody. So why don’t we put Tony Blair

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back in charge of Gaza? He can maybe rewrite the Balffor Declaration. Uh the

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whole thing is so absurd. You don’t even know where to start. But

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again, I have to admit, hardly anyone says boo about anything

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right now. Each one is scared of putting a putting

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a word out right now. I don’t think any of this lasts, but uh

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on the other hand, uh uh this kind of gangsterism

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plays for a little while. It makes us all at risk.

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One of the things that I see in this Board of Peace, Professor, I’m curious what you do as well, is it’s almost like

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a recreation of the UN Security Council here, especially with Russia, um, and a

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quasi privatized version with Trump as some sort of ameritus chair.

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It’s not going to happen. It’s not going to happen. Look, okay, around the world there are actually

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grown-ups. And when you talk to them, they know that this is looney. This is insane

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stuff. Nobody is joining Trump’s board to replace the UN Security Council. Many

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people think the UN Security Council is dead, killed by the United States, but

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nobody, okay, I can think of, yes, a few hedge

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fund guys, uh, maybe a son-in-law and a few others who will join the board

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thinking that it’s something real. Nobody believes that this is an

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alternative to the UN except some crazy media story uh in uh some mainstream uh

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medium pumped up by talking to someone in the White House. Mhm.

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And the fact of the matter is the United States is not all powerful.

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It can’t run Venezuela. It can’t overthrow the world. It can’t own

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Greenland. It tried very hard. It could not in a proxy

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war with Russia defeat Russia in Ukraine. That was a war between the

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United States and Russia. People should understand that. Uh fought with the

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Ukrainians killed in vast numbers. That was the US strategy. But uh didn’t work.

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uh the US has not had any success anywhere in the Middle East in actually

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achieving stability or long-term goals. It has

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created chaos in Libya, in Somalia, in uh Sudan, uh in Lebanon, in Syria, in

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uh Iraq, in uh Yemen, and uh it’s uh

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tried to overthrow the government of uh Iran last week, and my view is it’s not

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over yet. Maybe they’ll be bombing in the next few days. This is an ongoing

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story. That’s not peace. That’s not security. That is not uh enrichment.

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Except maybe, and I admit uh there are some uh uh Silicon Valley gazillionaires

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that do make a lot of money off of these wars. Uh and maybe this is how Peter

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Teal likes it. Uh but for the American people, this is not leading to anything real

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over the longer term and it’s not a great show. There have been a spade of

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articles in the last few days that America is back as the world’s sole

34:03

superpower. This is absurd. Yes, you can uh kidnap a president and

34:11

you can bully and you can even commit a genocide. You can announce the peace

34:16

board. That doesn’t give you ownership of the world. Uh the fact of the matter

34:22

is I have just been uh traveling throughout

34:27

Asia. real investment, real business, real technological

34:35

advance is taking place not uh in the way the United States would like it to

34:41

happen uh or uh we pretend uh but actually is happening outside of the

34:48

United States and not in the US control or the US orbit. Uh so I find the gap

34:57

between the uh brazenness, the rhetoric and so forth and the underlying uh

35:05

instability and unreality wider and wider. Uh and I think it is absolutely

35:16

important for us to understand and to to keep remembering Trump is sending troops into American

35:25

cities. And of course that’s terrifying. But is

35:30

that a show of strength or is that a show of um

35:36

utter contempt for American society, for the

35:43

safety of the American people, for the Constitution, for law? It’s it’s the latter. Does it

35:50

prove that he’s a great man, a strong man? No, it doesn’t prove that. It proves that um there is a degree of

35:59

recklessness that we’ve not seen in our country in uh at least since the civil

36:06

war I would say and yeah something I’m it’s very serious something I’m struck by in your comments

36:12

there is and and I’ve noted this is uh we are amazed at our power as you said

36:19

to kidnap Maduro with the Delta force raid uh to take out some Iranian nuclear

36:24

facilities uh with you know a high precision strike. Um but we seem to be at the same

36:31

time we seem completely and totally unable to recognize the constraints that

36:37

surround us. So for example, one of the things that apparently held up a potential strike on Iran is a carrier

36:42

strike group had to make its way from the South China Sea is the idea that we you know because a significant number of

36:48

naval assets are also in the Caribbean. And it also it almost seems to me like the grasping of a lot of the straws here

36:56

seem to be indicative actually of declining power and ability considering

37:02

what has happened now over the last 5 years. Absolutely. And if you look at the situation in Iran,

37:09

the bombing last summer did nothing but performative. It did not set back Iran’s

37:16

nuclear program two years. It didn’t set it back at all necessarily. 400 kg of

37:24

60%en enriched uranium are just out of sight. Uh the amount of centrifuging

37:32

needed to turn those into nuclear uh weapons if they want that is uh actually

37:40

quite tiny at this point. Nothing was solved in terms of security except

37:45

breaking any kind of oversight and a chance to have the IAEA, the

37:50

International Atomic Energy Agency, have a continued line of sight into what was

37:56

happening. At the same time, Iran demonstrated

38:01

hypersonic missiles that pierced uh Israel’s Iron Dome. They did not target

38:10

uh the uh absolute uh most sensitive uh targets in

38:18

Israel. Uh they targeted some military sites and uh but actually they showed

38:26

that they can pierce the Iron Dome. It’s not so iron and Trump’s golden dome

38:33

isn’t going to be so golden after trillions of dollars spent on it either.

38:38

So the idea that uh we have proved this overwhelming strength is absolutely

38:46

false. And as you say, uh, they did not have the means, even if they had wanted

38:53

to act last week to, and they may want to act next week, by the way, when this

38:59

carrier strike group comes closer. So, I do not put it past uh events at all uh

39:06

to see that we’re in a war next week. But it’s not going to be so simple. And

39:12

the United States is not the only nuclear superpower, nor is Israel. And

39:18

if there is a war, it’s right into the cauldron of nuclear weapons all over the

39:24

place. Uh it it would be the most dangerous uh kind of war one can imagine

39:32

in all of modern times. This is not the same uh even as the recklessness of the

39:38

Iraq war. Uh yeah. So the idea that this is somehow American

39:45

strength is an illusion or a delusion. Uh it is

39:52

an unhinged government. Uh and again is it unhinged by literal mental

39:59

instability or is it unhinged uh because of gangsterism or some combination or

40:06

maybe the the difference is too narrow to matter. But when a president uh

40:12

writes to the prime minister of Norway as you opened uh to say you didn’t give

40:19

me the Nobel Peace Prize now I don’t have to think about peace. This is not

40:24

under any definition the kind of situation that any American

40:30

should want for our own safety and security, much less that the world

40:37

should want by any standard on any interpretation. This is deeply,

40:44

profoundly disturbing and unnerving. Professor, my um final question for you

40:50

is, you know, I’m American. And I can’t help but uh in spite of some of my best attempts feeling a bit of American

40:55

nationalism. And this all seems incredibly terrible for for our country, for the people of our country. But I do

41:01

wonder if the brazeness of it is sort of a um wakeup call for the rest of the

41:07

world. You know, you pointed out the uh new alliance between Canada and China. You see Europeans, you know, showing

41:14

some theoretical signs of potentially thinking about a bit of a backbone. Um obviously there have been efforts with

41:20

um with bricks etc. So I is it possible that out of this brazen undeniable

41:27

gangsterism that you emerge actually with a um a better order if we’re

41:32

looking at the at the entire globe. Yes. Uh in fact uh there are diplomatic

41:40

conversations happening all over the world uh within regions and across

41:45

regions saying we need to get our act together. Uh this is very dangerous. Um

41:52

and uh the bricks is uh one part of that. That’s half the world uh

41:58

population. uh with the the uh 10 countries right now uh about uh almost

42:07

half the world’s uh GDP um and they are absolutely aware of uh

42:14

what the implications of all of this are but I think everywhere in the world uh

42:21

Trump is uniting the rest of the world uh in the opposite of what he intends

42:28

you uh India uh was uh courted

42:34

supposedly. I always thought it was absurd and I told the Indians that Indian leaders many times courted to be

42:42

on our side against China join what’s called the Quad which is an informal

42:50

group of the United States, India, Japan and Australia that supposedly are the

42:56

major powers to surround China and to keep China contained. And I said to the Indians uh Indian leadership many times

43:05

this is a bad idea. Don’t be used by the United States. They many times many uh

43:13

said to me you know we have a good inside track. We have good relations and so forth. During the past year all of

43:20

that has broken uh predictably in my view. I have to say I told them so very

43:28

very explicitly. And what did we see in Shanghai at the Shanghai Cooperation

43:35

Organization? We saw Prime Minister Modi, President Xi of China, and

43:41

President Putin of Russia uh in close embrace. Of course, they’re in a close

43:47

embrace. They have a United States that is completely erratic. Doesn’t have a

43:54

consistency hour to hour, much less day to day, week to week or month to month.

44:01

Every day is a new threat. Every day is a new slur. Every day is a new tariff.

44:07

Uh every day is a new executive decree. Of course, these are serious countries

44:13

that are actually not interested in playing some game of Donald Trump’s

44:19

mind, but actually interested in stability, their nuclear powers. They

44:25

don’t want a nuclear war. They don’t want to be uh brazenly threatened or

44:33

pushed around by the United States. So, the answer is yes. Trump is raising in

44:41

everybody’s mind, how do we make a multi-polar world

44:47

precisely because we don’t even have a stable power in the case of the United

44:54

States, one that anyone can rely on for any moment because it’s whimsical. it is

45:03

uh without uh any kind of treaty constraint, external constraint or

45:10

respect for anybody else. So the answer is emphatically yes. It’s very hard to

45:17

reshape the thinking. Uh Europe has been so wrong visa v Russia so mis so

45:26

misunderstanding of what really happened uh to uh create the Ukraine war which is

45:32

a US created war basically outlined by Zigg Bjinski back in the 1990s that

45:39

we’re going to take NATO and bring Ukraine into NATO and we’re going to make Russia a third rate power. Well,

45:46

the United Europe played along so much that now that they’re threatened imminently with basically an invasion by

45:54

the United States in Greenland, they don’t know how to react because they’ve

45:59

been so uh much under uh the US um so so

46:08

much influenced I should say by the US approach and by the fear of Russia. But

46:14

even they, as we talked about, are rethinking everything right now. Maybe

46:19

they’ll even realize, and actually I have to say, Chancellor Mertz said it a

46:25

few days ago, that maybe he needs to call President Putin. Uh that shows that

46:34

even the Europeans are recalibrating right now under this threat. And I can

46:40

tell you that’s happening all over the world because I’m hearing those

46:45

conversations. I’m being asked about these issues. This is happening all over

46:50

the world. Well, Professor Saxs, we really, really appreciate you making some time for us.

46:56

I know it’s late at night where you are. So, thank you so much for your insights at this pivotal moment.

47:01

Great to be with you. Always appreciate your Byebye. Hey, if you like that video, hit the like button or leave a comment below. It

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