Hasiera berria / A new beginning
Oso argi geratu denez, Palestina-ren aurkako eraso guztiek helburu bakarra daukate: genozidioa. Ezin da beste modu batez definitu.
Beraz, hemendik aurrera, genozidioaz arituko gara. Ea egoera eta epe berri batean sartuta gauden, to know whether we are in a new time or not.
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US President Harry Truman (1945-1953) stands next to a map showing the State of Palestine.
Israel is not real.
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“I SWEAR TO BE LOYAL TO THE GOVERNMENT OF PALESTINE” SIGNED BY ISRAELIS WHEN EMIGRATING FROM EUROPE IN THE 1930s
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Lord Rothschild Claims His Family Created Israel
Bideoa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUpZT5hEh8Q
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Alison Weir reveals the secret of Israel’s creation:
Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1807269838907224331
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UN General Assembly overwhelmingly calls for end of Israeli occupation
Read the resolutions text here: https://www.un.org/unispal/icj-and-question-of-palestine
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Dr. Anastasia Maria Loupis@DrLoupis
The occupation of Palestinian land began 107 years ago today, in 1917.
The Balfour Declaration, issued by the British government on November 2, 1917, expressed support for the establishment of “a national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine.
This declaration was conveyed through a letter written by then-Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Lord Lionel Walter Rothschild, a prominent figure in the British Jewish community.
The declaration states:
“His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”
This date represents the first official support for Zionist goals, ultimately leading, 30 years later, to the establishment of the State of Israel on occupied Palestinian land.
The Balfour Declaration played a significant role in shaping more than a century of ongoing war and chaos in the Middle East, culminating in the establishment of an Israeli state on Palestinian territory in 1948.
Today, the Balfour Declaration, in its outcomes, is seen as the foundation for the ongoing genocide, which in the past year alone has resulted in the death of more than 40,000 Palestinians, reflecting a failure to protect the historical and human rights of the Palestinian population in the region.
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuK97E07b2Q)
?La creación del Estado de Israel no responde a un desarrollo lógico de la historia, sino que la creación de este Estado es fruto de las confabulaciones políticas internacionales en las que participaron gustosamente los sionistas. Theodor Herzl fijó una hoja de ruta para crear el Estado judío y sus seguidores continuaron su legado. Antes de la creación de Israel en mayo de 1948, los británicos pusieron la primera piedra con la Declaración Balfour, la cual permitió crear el Hogar Nacional Judío, pero ¿cómo se gestó la Declaración Balfour? Quedaros hasta el final porque en este video os voy a hablar sobre la Declaración Balfour y todo lo que hubo detrás de esta promesa británica. ?
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Palestine is the most well-documented genocide in history, yet the most denied.
Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1855599445863223457
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Don’t stop talking about Gaza
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Oslo Panel for Palestine https://youtu.be/nwCgY9auyuw?si=bVvYI5AlN6I6rVmS
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Oslo Panel for Palestine
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwCgY9auyuw)
Before a live audience in Oslo, the panel – featuring Mustafa Barghouti, Mads Gilbert, Ilan Pappe, and Ingrid Fiskaa – discusses and critically explores three key areas: the present moment where Gaza remains under constant genocidal attack from Israel; the so-called “legitimacy” of the rules-based order (including but not limited to international law) that’s supposed to prevent or stop such violence; and the future of rebuilding Gaza in a way that actually honours the hopes, dreams and aspirations of the Palestinian people.
The panel is moderated by Paul Salvatori, senior producer and presenter at TRT World.
Transkripzioa:
0:00
so thank you so much uh for those lovely introductions and it’s an honor and
0:06
privilege truly to be sharing the stage with you all and for making this event possible and of course with all of you
0:13
who are here today in solidarity with Palestine so uh I’m hoping that we can
0:20
um have a discussion that goes in three parts um first focusing on the present
0:25
uh the legitimacy of the international order or thereof based on what we’ve
0:32
seen over the last year and the future of building Gaza so perhaps we can start
0:37
off with Dr barouti I’d like to ask you this question and then the other
0:42
panelists can answer in turn um how did we possibly get to this moment that
0:48
we’re seeing right now in Gaza this awful moment it’s hard to imagine how we
0:54
got to this point and I want first to thank everybody that is here
1:01
today uh for showing your solidarity and support to Palestinian people in their
1:07
struggle uh and in supporting our struggle joint struggle uh not only to end occupation
1:15
and the system of aparti and discrimination that we are subjected to
1:23
but actually more than that I think it’s a joint struggle to bring down the whole
1:29
settler Colonial Zionist system in Palestine and uh maybe what happened in
1:36
the last months have shown and proven that uh really what we are facing
1:44
is nothing but an extension of what started uh in uh early in the 20th
1:51
century and that led to the genocide in
1:56
1948 and what we see today is that a repeated genocide maybe a a much worse
2:03
genocide in terms of what’s happening in Gaza how did that
2:09
happen how could this war continue for more than a year and nobody would be able to
2:17
stop this fascist government in Israel because it said it is a fascist
2:22
government I think there are four reasons or four factors that have to be mentioned here the first one
2:30
one is the United States of America and some European
2:37
countries that continued to provide support and protection to this terrible fascist
2:45
government in Israel even when it was conducting three war crimes at the same
2:51
time and in parallel including the war crime of genocide the war crime of
2:57
collective punishment and the war crime of ethnic cleansing without the American
3:05
Support without the United States protection Israel would not have been
3:11
able to run this war for more than a week I assure you Israel needed American Military
3:19
supplies immediately on the second day of this war and if you read this new book of Bob
3:26
woodwood which I advise you to do uh he mentions how when blinkin met with
3:34
Netanyahu few days after the beginning of the war Netanyahu told
3:39
him uh two things two very important things first of all he told him to pass
3:46
the message of course to Biden that the goal of this war is not only
3:52
to destroy Hamas but to destroy the Palestinian
3:58
people to ethnically CL cleans all the people of Gaza and force everybody out
4:04
of Gaza to Egypt he he reports that and second he said he said we need three
4:09
things from the United States of America weapons weapons and
4:19
weapons and that’s exactly what we what he got 50,000 tons of explosives that
4:25
were thrown on Gaza but it’s not the only Factor
4:30
there is a second factor I would say which is the very
4:37
weak very weak reaction from the side of the Arab governments and the Islamic
4:45
governments uh which could have used definitely a lot of Leverage they they
4:50
could control to stop the United States from doing what it’s doing the third factor is definit
5:01
the rise of fascism in Israel and I don’t mean by that only the
5:07
fascist government and people like smotrich who is the Finance Minister of
5:12
Israel and the actual governor of the occupied West Bank now who calls himself
5:19
openly a fascist homophobe and doesn’t hide his intentions but I mean the very sad thing
5:28
of the fact that a very big part of the Israeli Society has moved to
5:37
Fascism in a way that I only can compare with the rise of Nazism in
5:44
Germany and that is of course A factor that could allow this government
5:50
to continue this war for more than a year but there is a final factor that I
5:56
have to mention a fourth Factor which is accepting and allowing up till
6:03
today a double standard the double standards of the
6:08
world Community when you compare the positions for instance in Ukraine with that in
6:15
Palestine a level of double standard that allowed this crime to
6:23
reach this level and I know you know a lot about what’s happening but let me just quickly
6:30
remind you some figures because they are shocking
6:36
53,000 400 Palestinians killed only because of
6:43
bombardment if we count the people who died from sickness and deprivation of
6:49
food and starvation and lack of Clean Water the number could reach 150 180,000
7:00
according to the Lancet
7:05
102,000 injured people of whom
7:11
25% could die because there is no medical treatment and because most hospitals
7:18
have been destroyed 177,000 Palestinian children
7:25
killed whenever I am interviewed in many Western media Outlets as soon as I
7:30
mentioned the number 177,000 children killed they immediately try to stop the
7:39
discussion because who could justify killing 177,000
7:46
children it’s 7% remember this number the number of Palestinians and is
7:54
and and and killed or injured in this war up till now in Gaza is 7% of the
7:59
population of Gaza in the second world war France
8:06
lost during 5 years of the war only 4% of the
8:12
population 7% if that had happened in the United States of America you would
8:18
be talking about 23 million Americans killed or injured what would the United
8:25
States have done if they lost 23 m million people in such a horrible
8:33
catastrophe they threw on Gaza 85,000 tons of explosives up till
8:40
now which is more than four times the explosive power of each of the nuclear
8:46
heads that were thrown in Hiroshima and nagazaki it’s imagine 38 kilg of explosives for
8:57
each man woman and child child in Gaza 890 of my
9:05
colleagues doctors nurses and health professionals were killed
9:11
186 th journalists were also
9:16
killed there is no family in Gaza that did not lose somebody and the most painful
9:25
thing was is the fact that you have at least now 4,100 people who have
9:31
amputations including 1,200 children who have no help now I will
9:40
never ever forget that image that video of that child who was 5 years old who
9:48
lost both of his arms and he was asking his father father will my hands grow again
9:56
when I grow up and of of course the father had nothing but tears he couldn’t even
10:05
respond we have to remember all of that when we speak politics when we speak
10:11
about the responsibility of of those people who not only allowed the
10:17
destruction of 80% of schools all universities more than 80% of
10:26
houses most mosques the only three churches in Gaza we should never forget
10:33
the fact that now at this moment for 31 days now the people in the north more
10:40
than 100,000 people are starving because they have been deprived of water
10:46
food medicines anybody who is injured now in the north will die because no ambulance
10:54
could get to him because there are no ambulances left he will die because no
10:59
no hospital can reach him and he he will die even if he gets
11:04
to a hospital because all hospitals are besieged this is happening
11:10
now and I can go on for very long time describing the situation so we shouldn’t
11:18
forget that the four factors are the responsible for all these atrocities
11:25
that we are facing and it is our duty and your duty duty to do everything we
11:32
can to pressure every government in this world to stop this atrocity that is
11:39
happening and stop being complicit with this terrible genocide that is happening in Gaza thank you yes
11:47
thank you thank you so
11:55
much thank you so much Dr baruti for that thoughtful of course harrowing response the
12:02
situation in Gaza so now I turn the question to Dr Gilbert um yourself how
12:10
how did we manage to get to this point that we’re at it is uh sad answer that I will offer
12:19
I do not have a scientific answer but of course I I subscribe to all the numbers
12:25
that Mustafa have presented to you and I just want to expand a little
12:30
bit on on the numeric B basis for this discussion the the evidence that we have
12:37
because it should not come as a surprise because we’ve known every
12:43
day we have known these numbers for 13 14 months now all the governments
12:50
all the foreign Ministries in the world have known this numbers because they have been reported
12:55
in such detail and this is one of the reports that comes three times a week
13:01
Monday Wednesday and Friday from the United Nations office of uh coordination
13:07
of human Affairs the orta office for occupied Palestinian territory anybody
13:13
who likes to know the reality can read it and I know it’s read in all the Ministries it gives the numbers that
13:20
Mustafa just uh uh uh reported 43,6 killed this is the last report from
13:27
the 29th of October on day 389 of the occupation and onslaught of
13:34
Gaza and then there is a little a tiny little column here to the left these are the graphs of the killed and the injured
13:41
and these graphs are so mathematical that they’re almost fit um an equation
13:47
and you might actually suspect that the Israeli occupation Army has a demand on
13:52
the number of people they should kill an injury per day in order to have this curve look as smooth and as increasing
14:00
at as it is supporting of course the point that Mustafa made that the ambition of this is of course not to
14:07
punish Hamas it’s not to control any military threat from Gaza it is the policy of ethnic
14:15
cleansing it is the policy of elimination of a people it is the
14:21
policy of epistemicide to eradicate the knowledge of an indigenous people in
14:28
order to take their land and unfortunately this will override
14:34
everything that we learned in school and that we teach our kids in school now about the United Nations and the human
14:39
rights and the Geneva Convention and that actually everyone has a right women children whoever we such a wonderful
14:46
Democratic world it’s a big lie because had that been through this had not been going on for
14:53
392 days and the little column to the to the left here are the the Israeli losses
15:00
and they have been standing at the same number since the 7th of October and it reads 1,00 killed
15:08
reported killed it’s actually a little bit lower now reported by Israeli authorities 1192 I think it was and it
15:16
is 33 children that’s of course 33 pales
15:21
Israeli Jewish children too much no child should get killed in an armed conflict but compare that number to the
15:29
other number here six uh 13319 Palestinian children and if you
15:36
make a ratio between these you get the mathematical expression of human
15:43
value and a Palestinian child’s life is worth less than 500 part of a Jewish
15:50
child’s life and this is for me an additional
15:56
explanation to the factors that Mustafa uh listed it is a
16:03
deep lack of respect for the human value of a Palestinian life it is the
16:10
fundamental racism that will affect not only the Palestinian people but any melanin rich people indigenous people in
16:18
the global South and it’s part of course of the global Colonial system and this
16:23
is so unsettling it’s so it’s so hard to digest because we all thought that was
16:29
some justice in this world we thought that they would look at the numbers and say stop it we thought that the
16:34
Norwegian government would say we block any communication with Israel we’ll divest the pension fund we will impose
16:42
uh all types of academic blockade we will not continue any of the agreements
16:48
we have until they stop the killing of the Palestinian people they did not they were protesting and they were sighing
16:54
and saying oh this is bad and it’s bad and can you please comply with the Geneva Convention mention in international
17:00
law and they don’t there has been absolutely no power on this Earth until
17:06
now who has been able or willing to do what it takes to stop Israel from this
17:12
ongoing killing spree today the last number is from dawn today until now they
17:18
have killed six 64 people in Gaza 64 humans like you take it out 5 6 S8 rows
17:25
here they kill according to the last number in Gaza they kill four children per hour
17:33
on an average four children per hour during the two hours we will spend together eight Palestinian children are
17:39
killed and this has been going on per hour 24 hours per day for 13
17:46
months would that have been accepted with any other people white
17:51
people of course not if it had been the number
17:57
13319 Jewish children killed or had there been
18:04
108 documented attacks on Israeli Jewish Medical institutions in Israel as the UN
18:11
just recently documented 1,8 attacks on Palestinian Healthcare facilities in
18:18
Gaza and the West Bank since the 7th of October would it have been accepted of course not and this is exactly what what
18:25
Mustafa pertains to the double standards but be behind that double standard is a
18:31
very disturbing very unsettling very very uh morally depraved racism and I
18:38
think that for the West we are seeing a moral collapse both because nobody seems
18:44
to want to uphold international law that we thought was a part of our life but
18:51
secondly that they very very uh rarely
18:56
have been trying to stop the Israeli attacks on the Palestinian people because this
19:02
this this this did of course not start on the 7th of October this started in 1948 or as Elan will tell us even before
19:10
that so what led to this dramatic horrific collapse of Western moral and
19:18
morality and defense of human values is of course the endless Israeli impunity
19:24
they have enjoyed impunity for since 1948 they’ve never been stopped I’ve
19:30
never heard any reaction after all the attacks I have experienced in Gaza and every time they attacked Healthcare
19:37
every time they killed the healthare workers every time they attacked ambulances they cut the water 17 years
19:43
of Siege of Gaza no water no food no medical supplies come on it’s been going on all the time with complete impunity
19:51
until the Republic of South Africa said enough is enough let’s take them to the icj so my friends yeah
20:04
so do I blame the governments of the West yes I blame them do I blame the Norwegian government yes I do blame the
20:10
Norwegian government do I blame the Norwegian Parliament yes I do blame the Norwegian Parliament because it’s been
20:15
too little too too [Applause]
20:22
late and I totally agree with Mustafa when he says every one of us are obliged
20:29
Now to turn ourselves into powerhouses of activism and solidarity because this
20:36
is about the future of our children our grandchildren we don’t want this world we don’t want a world where might
20:42
defines right we want a world where human rights defined actions of governments and where
20:49
there there is equality with regards to International laws and with the basic fundamental PR principle that every
20:57
single life on Earth is Holy and should be protected so should all also the
21:02
Palestinian lives so we need to trap up we need to increase we need to stand up and we need to demand from the current
21:09
government divest sanction Israel impose weapon embargo and demand from the
21:16
United States of America which is our big boss in NATO that they stop the
21:21
export of weapons to Israel that’s the thing we need to do thank you
21:33
and and by the way my criticism was not directed at you okay it was the nasty majority not
21:42
you so thank you Dr gilber for bringing in to relief or to light these
21:49
staggering double standards as well as to Dr baruti I’m wondering Dr papy if we
21:55
can at all make sense of the current moment a drawing from Dr Gilbert’s
22:00
response and Dr bargo’s response in some historical context at all it’s very
22:06
tough act to follow um I think that for someone like myself
22:13
who has been writing about the history of Israel
22:19
and Palestine living there watching it I was less surprised probably than
22:26
many others at the level of the Israeli brutality and inhumanity I warned
22:32
against it 25 years ago I said that this is where Israel is going it will seek
22:39
the historical moment in its eyes to eliminate Palestine as an idea
22:46
as people as a country because even if one Palestinian still exists inside
22:53
historical Palestine if there’s still one person in the world that calls
22:58
Israel Palestine that believes that an historical Injustice began in the late
23:06
19 century and is not ended until today as long as this happens with all the
23:12
military might the economic might the Global Alliance that supports it
23:17
Israelis feel insecure and feel that they are uh not
23:23
able to live a thriving life as they promised
23:29
to generations of Jews convincing them that it’s much better to be in historical Palestine than to live
23:37
anywhere else uh in the world including many communities of Jews in the Arab
23:42
world who didn’t experien the anti-Semitism that Jews experienced in
23:48
Europe and made the terrible mistake of coming to Palestine to become second
23:53
rate citizens themselves in the Jewish State no I wasn’t I’m not surprised I’m
23:59
afraid to say by the level of brutality but I am I am surprised by the
24:07
incomprehensible uh indifference of the West I did not anticipate that kind of
24:16
uh level of uh total disregard for a genocide that is on our
24:26
screen on a daily or if not hourly basis where there’s no way you can
24:32
juggle with words in order to describe it as something else where the numbers
24:39
the images the stories are such that even if you are the most cynical
24:44
politician you would have think that there’s a modicum of humanity in you
24:49
that does not allow you to say national interests strategic interests political
24:56
interests are more important than for me to risk anything uh and by that
25:03
even if I become complicit in the genocide I don’t care I didn’t didn’t
25:09
expect it from the global West really I didn’t I mean I had very little uh
25:15
confidence in the global West’s uh ideas of universalism uh International Justice
25:22
and so on was very skeptic of the of uh the positions but even with that
25:28
skepticism that kind of uh behavior and conduct I could not imagine this is
25:36
something that uh really needs to to looked at further the only explanation I
25:43
can give and that’s what I’ll try and do now
25:48
is and I I and I I got this explanation from the very
25:54
hysterical reaction both in Israel in places like
26:00
Germany rightwing parties in Europe the Republican and the
26:06
established Democratic party in the United States they are all reacting
26:12
hysterically towards one word context they’re really worried if you’re
26:19
talking about context if you remember when uh the Secretary General of the United
26:24
Nation said that despite of his uh condemnation of the actions of the Hamas
26:31
on the 7th of October he wanted to remind the world that this this operation was not in a void there was a
26:38
context immediately Israel demanded that he would be fired and the American State
26:44
Department published a condemnation of the contextualization
26:50
which is very tame was not totally accurate because he went to 1967 didn’t mention 1948
26:58
at all but the very idea that uh you can
27:04
look at the Palestinian action on the 7th of October within a context of
27:11
resistance of anticolonialism uh as a response to More Than A Century
27:18
of ethnic lensing genocide and so on is something that Israel demanded from the
27:25
Western Elites and they resp responded gladly to that not to be part of the
27:33
conversation every newspaper in Norway every newspaper in America every newspaper in Germany which is not part
27:40
of the alternative media does not dare to mention the context and when you ask
27:46
journalists why they’re doing that they said well you know we have only 1,000 words to cover the events I said give me
27:53
50 words and I’ll give you the context there’s no need for 1,000 words for that
27:59
[Music] and and the most important context uh uh
28:09
uh historically is not only what we all I think by now know uh the ethnic lensing
28:16
of 1948 that created the Gaza Strip there was no Gaza Strip before 1948 this
28:22
was a Zionist idea of how to deal with hundreds of thousands of Palestinians
28:28
that Israel could not push towards the Sinai Peninsula because Egypt closed its
28:34
borders it was able to push hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to the West
28:39
Bank to Syria to Lebanon but was unable to push them to the Sinai Peninsula so
28:45
they decided to create that strip which you can see is a rectangle a very clear
28:51
uh shape and created the mega mega refugee camp to begin with between 194 8
28:58
to 1967 but because so many people in razza are descendants or where themselves and
29:05
then descendants of the 1948 refugees and because of the density of this
29:12
rectangle that was not supposed to host that number of people of course the
29:18
resistance there was always more stubborn more more powerful than anywhere else in Palestine that makes a
29:24
lot of sense to me nothing to do with political Islam or the left or the fat
29:30
you just have to live in the Gaza Strip and ask yourself would you really be willing to do nothing in front of
29:37
such reality and then as a reaction Israel turned the mega refugee camp into
29:45
a mega prison when he decided that it cannot deal actually with the resistance
29:50
it took out the settlers and buil The Siege around razza
29:55
and created it as a mega prison and when the resistance continued from the mega
30:00
prison they even created something worse something like an extermination camp in
30:06
the days of the second world war they always upgraded the the uh the solution
30:13
in their eyes to uh a problem that already they didn’t find a solution to
30:19
in 1948 but the context for me goes even deeper than that and we that’s what I
30:27
meant when I said said you can do it in 50 words Zionist project was a European
30:34
solution for a European problem Europe did not want to
30:41
deal genuinely honestly with the Holocaust he didn’t want to deal
30:47
honestly with the other crimes that were committed not just by the Nazis but by
30:53
so many allies of the Nazis including in this country and they were
31:03
unwilling and they were unwilling to do the one thing that
31:09
probably could have at least bring some justice and keep the Palestinians and
31:14
Mustafa out of it all together I don’t know if you know about it this Mustafa but there were ideas by some more honest
31:23
Europeans that if some of the Jews want a state because of the experience of the
31:29
Holocaust give them Bavaria give them Bavaria that have been
31:34
the most most reasonable more logical the most moral solution to what uh was
31:41
done to the European Jews but it was so easy to go back to the Zionist in
31:48
Palestine who arrived there long before the Holocaust who became part of this
31:53
International Global European phenomenon of settler colonialism with where Europeans who were outcast in
32:00
Europe with the help of Empires took over someone else’s Homeland and tried to eliminate the population there in
32:08
order to create the Europe that didn’t want them in you would have thought that
32:14
after 100 Year such an immoral such actually
32:20
impractical solution would not work but Mustafa explained to us why it did work
32:25
it did not work because it was just it was not work because the Zionist uh
32:32
uh contrary to what the liberal Zionist tell us were incredible settlers who were Democratic moral uh socialists
32:41
universalists no it worked because there was a Global Alliance that
32:47
helped the project to impose Itself by force on millions of people who in their
32:55
culture in their history in the nature are not Fighters are not seeking to fight are
33:03
seeking to survive seeking to have normal life it was easier in a way
33:09
because you you could always Mesmerize the Palestinians and they did it five
33:14
times during the mandatory period and then they did it again during the peace process and one of the biggest uh uh
33:22
Factory of sin in this respect was the Oslo Accord in 1993 they they were they
33:28
were told again and again no you have to understand we the world will help you to
33:35
as Brokers we would bring this we will reconcile the what looks like impossible
33:40
the idea of a settler Colonial racist apart state was your rights as the native indigenous people of Palestine no
33:48
wonder some Palestinians even fell for it but it was a lie from the very
33:54
beginning there was no genuine wish and it is not just because because the people themselves were not honest
34:00
because that’s the nature of the reality the project is not working because it is
34:05
based on this immoral foundations and the only way we can
34:11
begin I think to challenge that reality apart from everything that you are all
34:17
doing which is incredible the boycott the divestment the sanction this is all
34:23
historically would proven to be a very important uh uh contribution to the
34:28
struggle of decolonization and freedom if not to tomorrow then the day after tomorrow nothing is getting lost with
34:36
such an investment of human uh Ingenuity and and commitment but more than
34:42
anything else we have to get rid of any conversation that tries to evade the
34:51
context of what we are talking about because then you are stuck by saying all right we’ll find us a solution for the W
34:57
bank or I will find a solution just for RZA which is which is the one thing you don’t want to do you want a solution for
35:06
the whole of historical Palestine you want a solution for all the Palestinians including the refugees you don’t want to
35:13
to create again an ideas of Bantan and peace me uh uh solutions that actually
35:22
perpetuate the longevity of the project that is not working and this is
35:28
something that is even beyond the Palestinians this project is bad for the
35:34
Jews Israel is the less safe place for Jews it’s the only place where Jews have
35:39
died in great numbers after 1948 it is the only project that
35:44
increases anti-Semitism it’s the only project that destroyed beautiful Jewish communities
35:52
in the Arab world and everybody lost from this the Arab world lost and the Jews lost from this that and the Arab
35:59
world is losing from that because rulers corrupt rulers authoritarian regimes can
36:05
use the question of Palestine as an excuse not to deal with the injustices in their own countries so so this is the
36:12
context this is the context and I was horrified to see a directives coming
36:19
from universities managements in Europe in some places telling the faculties
36:24
don’t use the word context because is is asked us not to use it we will use the
36:30
word context we will remind people also in Europe the complicity is not by just
36:36
by being silent while the genocide is going the complicity is by not dealing
36:43
directly and Faithfully with the issues of racism and anti-Semitism and
36:50
islamophobia this is all connected to the way that Israel succeeds of having
36:56
this impunity that you talking about and I think that what really makes me
37:01
hopeful that the younger generation is not falling for these trps to my mind
37:07
the younger Generations I knows that racism is racism there’s no hierarchy of
37:12
racism there’s not one form of racism like anti-Semitism that is worse than
37:17
any other kind of racism all racism is is wrong and I think there’s enough
37:24
understanding that uh there is no geographical distinction anymore between
37:29
the world in which politics are exercised for the sake of
37:34
the politicians and not for the sake of the people every and with this I will finish every
37:41
moment politics in this country or anywhere else become more moral more
37:46
reflective of what people’s real problems are Palestine is winning every
37:52
moment that you are unable to change it Israel is winning thank you
37:58
[Applause]
38:05
thank you thank you Dr Pape thank you Dr Pape
38:13
for stressing um the the much needed historical context that’s lacking from
38:19
mainstream media and of course that’s deliberate as well as from the administrations that you’re mentioning
38:26
at these universities um before um this becomes a conversation between the panelists themselves on this
38:33
same question on how we get here honorable Member of Parliament U Fisco if I’m pronouncing that
38:40
correctly um so could you tell us perhaps drawing from your parliamentarian knowledge or expertise
38:46
like how is it possible that we’re at this moment right now how is it even possible uh well I
38:55
won’t give you any more history historical explanations IL Pape has done that in a very uh good way but um the
39:05
easy answer is of course us American weapons uh not only uh us American also
39:15
German uh British French weapons and money uh not only allowing Israel to do
39:25
this Mass Slaughter this ongoing genocide on the Palestinian people but
39:31
actively supporting this Mass Slaughter um uh and when it comes to to
39:39
to the United States I I believe going back to history uh it’s not not a
39:45
coincidence that they are uh supporting this uh being a country themselves uh
39:52
being actually based on a genocide uh I think there are some his hisorical uh background to be found also
40:00
in in their uh own history uh other uh western or Western
40:10
countries as a whole I agree have have double standards uh not only allowing
40:16
but also uh continuously supporting uh this these war
40:22
crimes um at the same time claim in to be
40:28
strong Defenders of Human Rights Universal standards international law
40:35
Etc uh but but uh at the same time actively violating these standards that
40:42
uh these countries say that they uh defend so so strongly uh in Norway we
40:49
have a government that compared to most Western countries this is a very bad company uh to be in at this moment but
40:57
compared to uh most other Western uh countries we have a government that has
41:03
been uh relatively clear uh actually also admitting that Western countries
41:10
have double standards and saying this this is a problem uh our Minister of Foreign
41:17
Affairs admits that other uh other uh Western countries have double standards
41:23
and also says that this is a problem when we try to get the global South to
41:29
uh support Ukraine which is obviously true but this is not the only uh reason why this is a
41:37
problem but this is the main um uh uh argument uh why this uh why these double
41:45
standards are are a pro problem so the Norwegian government has been relatively
41:50
clear uh in uh condemning uh Israel’s acts uh trying to sort of defend
42:00
international law also but there is a big but nor
42:05
way uh the Norwegian government and the and the majority of the parliament uh
42:10
are not willing to do what it takes to actually fulfill our obligations under
42:17
International uh law uh if if we were to actually uh fulfill our
42:25
obligations uh we uh immediately should have withdrawn all investments in all
42:32
companies that supports and uphols the illegal occupation and the war crimes we
42:39
should immediately uh withdraw all kind of indirect weapons sales uh to Israel
42:47
and why is this not been done for a year a year ago uh I I believe the the main
42:56
reason is that Norway and the Norwegian uh foreign policy is is been constrained
43:02
by self-imposed uh constraints um uh uh
43:11
because we want to be a loyal Ally to the US mostly and to to other NATO
43:18
allies so it’s very hard for the mainstream the the the the the
43:24
establishment in the Norwegian foreign policy to to to um to have a a very
43:31
clear uh stand uh in in in this also and and to and to do what it really takes to
43:39
fulfill our own obligations and also to to uh not only speak but also uh uh let
43:48
action uh speak um and my last point I believe one
43:55
of the reasons why uh this is all uh this is still going on
44:03
is that we have two weak democracies in the Western World um uh we have weak democracies we
44:11
see that um the freedom of of speech in many countries is restrained uh we see that police force
44:19
is used against um uh people who want to to support the Palestinian cause not
44:27
that much in in in Norway but but also here we have a a lack of
44:34
representative representativity in our Parliament I believe it’s very clear that the
44:40
majority of the Norwegian people do want uh the Norwegian Parliament and
44:46
Norwegian government to do what it takes to fulfill our obligations
44:57
and sad and sadly we do not have that majority represented represented in
45:04
Parliament that is something we have to do uh to to change thank you honorable Member of
45:11
Parliament Fisco um before we turn to the question of the legitimacy of the
45:17
international order I’m wondering if any of the panelists uh would like to respond to any of the other Dr I just
45:23
have a questions for for because when I came from truma the other day
45:30
flying in I saw a humongous very ugly ship sailing up through the
45:38
D which is one of the biggest air carrier hunger ships in the world
45:45
sailing into the Inner Harbor of Oslo did anyone in the Norwegian
45:51
Parliament or in your Committee of Foreign Affairs and defense suggest to
45:57
say to the American government no thank you we will not have this visit as long
46:02
as you supply Israel with weapons for the
46:11
genocide so so it’s very simple even even if you knew that it would be voted
46:16
down did any of you suggest that in the committee or in the parliament if not I think we have to widen the scope of our
46:25
fantasy and our in uity and our smartness when it comes to active
46:31
solidarity and I’d like to quote one of the great anti-colonial Guerilla leaders samur
46:39
Melle who led the the uh anti-colonial struggle against Portugal in Mambi and
46:44
he became the first president of of Mambi the free Mambi he says solidarity
46:50
is not an act of Charity it is an act of unity between people fighting on
46:57
different terrains towards the same goals just as you said Donan every
47:02
little thing that we manage to defend in our welfare state every time we manage
47:08
to fight back uh against oppression of women racism or privatization of our
47:15
beautiful welfare state that is again for the Palestinian people and that’s precisely what samur Melle says it’s not
47:22
charity it is an active Unity between people fighting on different ter towards
47:27
the same goals Humanity equal equality Justice and anticolonialism did any of
47:34
you suggest that that ship was not allowed to come to [Applause]
47:42
USL because I think I think it is an insult to any thinking person and I read
47:49
in often poon the aunti T that um it was it had no military significance it was
47:57
only to show Force so the Norwegian government and the Parliament says thank you very much
48:03
we’re so happy you come to us to show Force so you see my point there are so many possibilities that you don’t take
48:10
and you would have the support of the solidarity movement wouldn’t we have the support to
48:16
that y I don’t think that was a question
48:22
because mat gilber all already knows the answer uh we did not
48:27
suggest uh precisely what he suggested we could have done uh it would have been
48:32
voted down uh two months after it the ship had left so uh we we of course can
48:39
use um other opportunities uh to to to
48:45
again uh uh try to uh make the Norwegian government and and majority of the
48:52
parliament understand that we have to fulfill our uh our obligations under
48:58
international law and we can can use such opportunities uh but I can reassure
49:04
Mr mat Gilbert that we do have a lot of suggestions in Parliament as we speak
49:11
that will be uh um that the the committee is is
49:19
considering at the moment uh uh in line with what what I’ve been telling you uh
49:25
withd drawing investment stop uh indirect arm sales
49:31
Etc uh I I guess it will be uh voted down again uh we will uh propose it
49:39
again of course uh until we have a majority so we will not stop I can
49:45
promise you that yeah that’s good just a a final final actually a
49:54
question out of ignorance did anybody in the Parliament or any committee suggest that the Norwegian Parliament or
50:01
politicians or government or actually demand from the Norwegian government that they direct the political demands
50:08
towards the United States and not just towards Israel that’s my point and we we’re we’re part of NATO big boss is the
50:16
United States but I haven’t seen any initiatives to try to hold the United States of America’s government
50:23
responsible for this humongous uh supply of weapons that has gone to and has
50:30
facilitated and the only thing made possible the genocide in in in Gaza and in in the West Bank or in Lebanon have
50:37
anybody suggested to criticize Israel from the parliament no no the United
50:43
States well um uh the the the parliament does not
50:49
like uh vote for declarations at such we we uh put forward uh proposal for what
50:57
the Norwegian government should do or not do uh and and of course uh what many
51:04
of our proposals is about uh keeping every C country re um uh accountable for
51:11
their own acts uh so uh we we could do
51:16
what you you are uh suggesting uh now there is election uh this very day uh
51:24
and evening and uh I guess uh what kind of uh demands we should uh
51:32
we should uh um put forward to for keeping the US uh
51:40
accountable is also depends on what happens in this election um uh but um
51:49
u i it’s it’s a kind of tricky question because uh I think uh what Norway should
51:55
do is is to do what we can do uh we cannot uh make the us to do what we
52:04
would like to them to do but we can do what is right
52:09
ourselves okay thank you um I just want to make sure that we
52:14
cover uh the remaining two areas so perhaps um for uh the individual responses for
52:22
this section we can limit it to perhaps just a few minutes and then the panelist can we can go to the second question yes
52:29
and then I think unless Mustafa wants to no no no I think should well um maybe
52:34
one little comment I mean sure please if you you keep asking why you don’t criticize the United States why you
52:40
don’t do that ask yourself the question why Norway is in NATO yeah exactly I’m
52:46
against that course course but given given this given the
52:53
fact that we are in NATO does not mute or voice voice in criticizing other NATO
52:58
members no but I will explain in my next question uh the the problematic aspect
53:04
of this situation because it’s not Palestine has
53:09
exposed the hypocrisy of the West and it’s not just about
53:16
Palestine it’s about so many other countries in the world yeah please let’s
53:21
not this is this is excellent no this is actually this is um it’s it’s
53:27
yeah this perfect segue actually into this section um on the legitimacy or the
53:33
lack of legitimacy of the international order um with respect to what we’ve seen
53:39
since October 7th alone but of course it goes beyond that so perhaps
53:45
um we can limit the uh initial responses to just a few minutes and then the
53:51
conversation among the panelists with this this wonderful energy can continue so uh Dr um baruti uh do you feel that
53:58
the international order uh has
54:05
collapsed well it is uh commonly said that
54:11
uh the world the the the world has
54:16
created uh certain things after the second world
54:21
war and we shouldn’t forget also one aspect because it also relat to this
54:26
situation if we talk about history that so many Western governments
54:32
were silent about Hitler for very long time and about musolini and the rise of
54:39
fascism till they started to hurt themselves till they started to be
54:44
attack themselves the countries they allowed them to swallow Austria if you remember if if
54:51
you of course you don’t remember but we all know that and Czech and Czechoslovakia you you
54:59
know the story and and till it reached their own
55:04
yard uh so the the world order that was created and everybody claimed it was
55:12
about International humanitarian law and international
55:17
law and they claimed that the the the creation of Israel was some sort also of
55:24
a response to the Holocaust and so on on but now what we see is really a true
55:31
collapse uh first of all there’s a very serious contradiction that actually
55:37
reflects exactly the very good analysis of Elan Pape about why Israel was
55:43
created in this manner now the creation of Israel is in conflict with
55:49
International humanitarian law and is in conflict with international law that is
55:55
the reality and after what happened in Gaza and in Palestine in general by the way it’s not
56:01
just Gaza I mean it’s also the West Bank which is attacked now
56:07
continuously and Jerusalem Etc I think uh the the crimes that have
56:14
happened and the Silence about these crimes have put the world in a very
56:19
difficult situation there is no more International humanitarian law it doesn’t exist and if it exists
56:27
why it’s not applied there is no more international law that is the
56:32
reality and so many people of the world and so many countries will
56:39
suffer not only because they were silent about that but because they didn’t have a say even in what’s happening because
56:47
now the conclusion after what Israel was allowed to do with all this terrible
56:52
crime all these terrible crimes and so on and with absolute and total impunity
56:58
the question will be or the the conclusion will be is that any country that has power can do whatever they like
57:05
anywhere they want and nobody will stop them and in that sense this little place
57:12
Gaza has not only exposed the hypocrisy of the world but actually it has it has
57:21
created a situation where the whole International order is is
57:28
finished and unless some corrective measures are taken very quickly the
57:33
consequences will be horrifying to every country including your country including
57:40
Norway because some other countries are much bigger than you and if there are no laws in this
57:46
world then everybody will be affected and and
57:54
and and by the way just why why Israel
57:59
is uh why Israeli establishment I would call it not you personally but why
58:05
Israeli establishment is so afraid they are so afraid of the history
58:13
they’re so afraid of the past they’re so afraid as you said of the context it’s
58:19
exactly like a thief a thief Who Made Who Stole big
58:25
thing and he’s constantly afraid or she’s constantly afraid of being
58:30
discovered and that’s exactly the reality of Israel what happened recently in the occupied Palestinian territories
58:37
and especially in Gaza has reminded everybody including us the Palestinians
58:43
of the original sin of 1948 of the genocide that has happened
58:52
and contrary to this whole false claim that there is a possibility of a
59:00
solution a compromise between Palestinians and Zionist movement now
59:05
what the Zionist movement is telling us there is no place for any compromise no two-state solution look
59:12
what did theet recently approve not only the horrible the horrible
59:18
law before the genocide in Gaza which says that the right of self-determination in the land of
59:25
historic pales which they call erit Israel is exclusive for Jewish people and then a new law
59:33
voted for not only by the government parties but also by opposition parties
59:38
in Israel that says no place for a Palestinian State and then a third law
59:45
which says that Ona is not allowed to function here and a fourth law that
59:50
nobody can cooperate with unwa and now there are series of new laws one of them
59:57
that if any Palestinian shows any kind of solidarity with Gaza and he or she is
1:00:03
a teacher he they can be immediately kicked out of their job and another law
1:00:09
that anybody who participate in Palestinian resistance will be stripped away they will lose their citizenship
1:00:16
this is fascism fascism in the most clear way
1:00:23
and those who were silent about the first fascism are now silent about this
1:00:28
new fascism that is the reality of what’s happening and I I have to finish because I don’t want to take much time
1:00:35
but there are serious questions we have as Palestinians to the
1:00:42
world why international law is not applied in our case why International
1:00:49
humanitarian law is not applied second what is the right of
1:00:54
self-defense because all you hear in the western media Israel’s right to defend
1:00:59
itself nobody says that we the Palestinians who are under occupation for 57 years under genocide
1:01:09
which was practiced in 1948 for 76 years and Under Siege in the case of Gaza and
1:01:16
under the war system of aperti nobody says that we have the right to defend
1:01:21
ourselves while actually international law says that every people who are under occupation have the right to defend
1:01:28
themselves using all forms of struggle including military struggle as long as
1:01:33
they respect international law and international humanitarian law
1:01:44
so and who is the terrorists why are we accused of being
1:01:51
terrorist because we practice self-defense
1:01:56
we are the terrorists but Israel which has killed 177,000 children Netanyahu who killed
1:02:03
177,000 children and who has destroyed to the ground a whole place called
1:02:10
Gaza is not a terrorist this terminology of accusing Palestinians of
1:02:17
being terrorists is totally unacceptable actually the real terrorist
1:02:23
is Netanyahu and his government
1:02:30
and then the next question who said that Israel can who
1:02:38
said that Israel which is practicing occupation aparti and ethnic cleansing has the right to monopolize
1:02:46
the status of a victim because that’s exactly what they are doing they are the victim all the
1:02:53
time even when they are doing aggression they are the victim and they they import
1:03:01
the historical aspect of something we had nothing to do with as you mentioned
1:03:07
which is the Holocaust to claim that Israel is a constant victim even when it is committing crimes and
1:03:14
finally the big question are we all equal human beings
1:03:20
or not because there is now there there is doubt about that
1:03:26
why we the Palestinians are not accepted as equal human beings basically the
1:03:33
whole attitude of all these governments that support Israel and that allow genocide is about specifically that
1:03:41
racism which does not accept us as equal human
1:03:47
beings if a Jewish child should never be killed and his life is precious a
1:03:53
Palestinian life a Palestinian child life is the same
1:04:00
and and as I always say what is the difference between Anna
1:04:07
Frank who was killed by the gabo in the second world war and hind
1:04:13
rajab who a Palestinian six-year-old child who watched her whole family being
1:04:19
killed and was on the phone for hours asking for an ambulance
1:04:26
till the ambulance arrived and was bombarded and she was killed Anna Frank is
1:04:32
hindra they are the same and I
1:04:39
think I think that’s exactly what we should emphasize that’s exactly what we should
1:04:46
talk about all the time don’t talk to us about anything before you accept us
1:04:52
Palestinians as equal human beings and that means we have the right to live we
1:04:58
have the right to resist we have the right to struggle for our freedom it’s a
1:05:03
precious
1:05:11
right thank you so much thank you so much Dr baruti I think just uh to be
1:05:17
mindful of time I’m wondering perhap because Dr barui has said so much of importance could we actually uh delve
1:05:23
into a discussion right now uh amongst the panelist s um with respect to any of
1:05:28
the questions that he’s raised or points that he’s raised um perhaps beginning
1:05:33
with Dr Gilbert and then the discussion can ensue okay yes no no
1:05:38
it’s or would you prefer yes all right
1:05:46
um I agree I agree with Mustafa I think that uh the whole moral basis the whole
1:05:56
logic reson that of the whole International legal system has totally
1:06:02
collapsed when the hypocrisy was so painfully
1:06:08
exposed uh especially when people put in conjunction the war in the Ukraine and
1:06:14
the Israeli genocide in razza of course there were many more indication for that
1:06:21
hypocrisy but I think the proximity of the the events chronolog ically made it
1:06:27
easier for people to see that this is not working and
1:06:33
again Mustafa alluded to it it’s very important to go back to the historical
1:06:39
origins of international law uh and remember and remind
1:06:46
ourselves that international law the foundation of international law that
1:06:52
have not been revised since the end of the first world war which by the way
1:06:58
were able to justify the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine in the United
1:07:03
Nation partition resolution in November 1947 that discussion of what is
1:07:11
universal law what is international law was done when half of the world was
1:07:17
still colonized when not one colonized person was part of the discussion of what is
1:07:24
international law when the United States still exercised aparte uh open aparte
1:07:32
system in uh the UN south of the United States and South Africa in 1948 adopted
1:07:40
AP paride officially as a state constitution uh this is very important
1:07:48
and the attempts of the left uh in the global West had some success in 1960
1:07:57
those of you are familiar with the history of international law in 1960 it was decided to include
1:08:05
colonialism as a violations of international law now some people who were from
1:08:12
indigenous populations in Latin America in Australia in other places
1:08:20
said what about settler colonialism what about the American
1:08:26
colonialism against the Native Americans what about the Australian colonialism
1:08:32
against the first nations of Australia and what about the Zionist colonialism
1:08:38
of Palestine and the uh Alliance that was created between Canada the United States
1:08:48
Israel South Africa in Australia was to convince those who were responsible for
1:08:55
for running the international legal system in the world was that settler colonialism is a domestic
1:09:01
issue that international law cannot deal with and is not part of the
1:09:09
crimes uh that are identified by the international legal system at that
1:09:15
moment in 1960 uh it was an Absolution for the previous settler
1:09:23
Colonial genocides of so many people in the world but very few realize that this
1:09:30
is far more than that it’s immunizing the genocide that hasn’t happened yet
1:09:35
the one that’s happening now in and the one that was already started before it’s
1:09:41
it is this kind of realization that uh everything that is described in our
1:09:49
world as universal as International is very limited it’s West W it’s not
1:09:56
Universal it’s not International uh and and nobody is
1:10:01
really uh able to to get over it because it has been going on for so many
1:10:08
years you know even the best uh manifestos that you can read of
1:10:15
the Communist parties and the leftist parties in Europe in the 40s the 50s and
1:10:21
the 60s are not exempt from racism this is part of of of a whole issue that
1:10:29
comes to haunt us and I agree Gaza razza open it up but of course the problem is
1:10:36
everywhere the the you British and European I say because of
1:10:42
brexit I don’t put them now together so I have to me they make all my sentences long brexit so Britain and the EU you
1:10:49
used to say EU that’s enough Britain and the EU I would say that some of their
1:10:56
immigration policies are colonialists it’s a total uh e lack of
1:11:02
recognition of the connection between the way Europe thrived and succeeded at
1:11:09
the expense of the colonized people creating the havoc and misery in the
1:11:16
colonized world and then claiming it doesn’t have it has the right to block
1:11:22
the way for people from the colonized world this is part of the same colonialism and I think that’s one of
1:11:29
the most with this I will end one of our most difficult uh uh challenges
1:11:34
particular about Palestine but you will find it in all other issues that you want to deal with in this country for
1:11:40
instance with people uh who seek uh life immigrants and so on and Indigenous
1:11:46
people who fight for their rights the biggest problem for was that for years we taught in high schools and
1:11:53
universities and documentaries and media that the age of colonialism ended in the
1:12:00
1950s when the world was decolonized the world was not decolonized some spaces were decolonized
1:12:09
in the sense that the colonial power physically left but the minds of people
1:12:14
were not decolonized and especially when it comes to Palestine it’s so difficult to say
1:12:20
that what youan thought was a 19th century phenomenon is actually happening in front of your eyes and this is a
1:12:27
challenge to everyone for universities to understand where should they teach about Palestine not in the
1:12:34
department of political science not in the department of international relations not even in the department of
1:12:40
Middle Eastern history where you teach about colonialism genocide and ethnic
1:12:46
cleansing that’s when you should teach about Israel that’s the right Academic Place for this this is what should go
1:12:53
into the curriculum in high schools when we will be able to produce that kind of knowledge and understanding it’s a
1:13:00
long-term project so it doesn’t contradict what we should do urgently to stop the genocide but to build again
1:13:07
this historical knowledge and understanding of of this uh uh
1:13:15
trajectories that have brought us to this moment and believing that these
1:13:20
were made by human beings not by God not by external forces from the outside
1:13:26
space and human beings can change it they can demand different kind of
1:13:31
understanding what is universal wasn’t what is international who is has the right
1:13:38
exactly to defend thems themselves who is the right to live as equal uh people we need it’s funny but we need to go
1:13:45
back to some of the most basic uh words we have in our languages that we took
1:13:51
for granted such as equality such as universal law or international law and
1:13:57
ask ourself do we fully understand what they mean and are they fully practiced
1:14:04
and if not start from scratch and give these uh uh uh ideas uh a new and more fitting
1:14:13
meaning thank
1:14:23
you yes if if I may add um and going back to the the question we see the
1:14:29
collapse of the international law I’m not so sure um uh of course uh
1:14:37
we do see that the international law uh and and I believe international law is is full of mainly good standards it’s
1:14:46
the UN Charter prohibit um uh making a war of aggression illegal uh um saying
1:14:55
that every uh people have have the right to defend themselves against Wars of aggression occupation
1:15:03
Etc these are very uh good uh Universal standards and and laws that we should
1:15:09
all uh defend for the reasons that uh Mr bouti said earlier uh do we see the
1:15:16
collapse of this international law well if you see it from the the the ground in
1:15:21
Gaza it’s very obvious that the you have to say yes uh because there is no international law
1:15:28
protecting uh people the people in Gaza but we do see also that uh uh especially
1:15:35
the global South um is mainly uh to a large extent I would say really
1:15:42
defending these Universal standards and the case uh against Israel in the
1:15:48
international court of justice brought by uh uh South Africa is a very good
1:15:54
example of that and I I believe I I do see uh also a lot of people in in both
1:15:59
the global South but also in Western countries um defending these Universal
1:16:05
standards but what we do see a collapse of is the so-called Western
1:16:11
Civilization uh and this is not you either uh Mahatma Gandhi uh was
1:16:17
supposedly was uh once asked what do you think about the western
1:16:23
civilization and and as I’ve heard he said that would be a very good
1:16:28
idea and and this is what I believe we see also today and and the and the case
1:16:35
of of the ongoing genocide really shed sheds uh light on this issue that the
1:16:41
so-called Western Civilization maybe never existed but H certainly is is uh
1:16:49
collapsing as we see it and that may also I I don’t think that is a good
1:16:55
thing but it may be an opportunity to ask those simple questions again what is
1:17:03
equality uh do we really believe that all uh all people are are equal yes or
1:17:15
no yeah I uh I I’d like to agree that there is not a collapse of international
1:17:20
law but I I think there is uh at least a temporal collapse because no nobody none
1:17:27
other Western Powers have been stepping up to stop what is going on in Gaza as we are speaking Israeli occupation
1:17:34
forces are bombing the Kamal adwan Hospital in Northern Gaza for the third time there are three remaining hospitals
1:17:41
in Northern Gaza for 200,000 people ala Kamal adwan and Indonesian Hospital
1:17:46
Kamal adwan used to have 75 doctors they have two left they used to have 70 nurses they have seven left they have
1:17:53
more than 100 patients many of them children with shrapnel in their bodies needing surgery they can get it at shifa
1:17:59
hospital a few 15 minutes away but there are no ambulances this is going on as we
1:18:05
are speaking and four kids are killed per hour and and and where where is this International order trying to stop
1:18:12
Israel it’s nowhere to be found and that leads me to the next question I think
1:18:17
Mustafa is placing a very important and very serious responsibility on us
1:18:25
and I’d like to to to give a little upbeat because I think it’s fantastic that tonight on the you know crazy
1:18:34
election in the United States you decide to come here and we fill this audience I think we should give that an Applause
1:18:40
because we want we want to take on that challenge
1:18:48
that you place on us and as I said you know the only explanation I have for
1:18:54
Kamal adwan what is going on there now and these numbers that we’ve known for the better part of 13 months it’s a deep
1:19:02
rooted Colonial racism and every one of us we can be an
1:19:09
island of anti-racism and activity and that is what that’s where we have to
1:19:15
start because what the powers want us to feel is helpless and I don’t want you to
1:19:20
leave this meeting tonight and feeling helpless or overwhelmed because the fact that you are here the fact that Oslo has
1:19:27
a tradition of solidarity the fact that we have the mixed artist choir the fact
1:19:32
that we have mittens being knitted for Gaza the fact that we have
1:19:38
yeah everyone everyone has a voice and everyone has a talent and the only way
1:19:46
they can conquer us is when they make us feel alone once we get together and we form a
1:19:53
small group or a big group as small demonstration or a big demonstration we take the power in our own hands I’m a
1:19:59
medical doctor I’m not trained to treat symptoms when I talk about Gaza I cannot
1:20:06
talk about the liters of blood or the types of infections without addressing the root cause of all the mystery which
1:20:13
is the occupation of Palestine the Israeli CER Colonial project and the racism I have to talk about that when I
1:20:20
talk about that I’m 100% excluded from Norwegian media because don’t want the
1:20:25
context they want to use humanitarianism now as a kind of morphine to heal
1:20:33
or horrible feelings and we want to let the NGO Army the the uh what would you
1:20:41
could call it the humanitarian industry to try to patch up all that we feel of
1:20:47
Despair but I tell you one thing the NGO industry is part of the problem because
1:20:53
they never address they never addressed the root
1:21:00
cause and recently one organization which I have been a very sort of
1:21:05
committed part of said that we take no stance in the conflict between Israel and Palestine and I thought what is
1:21:11
going on because until the relief industry addressed the root cause we’re
1:21:16
not getting anywhere and we have to start talking about racism colonialism
1:21:22
the Israeli responsibility for all this and we need to talk about our support
1:21:27
for the armed resistance of the people who are occupied the armed resistance
1:21:33
and the solidarity movement must be more Brave in defining the context and
1:21:38
addressing the Parliament and the government with our demands that address that context and that root cause until
1:21:45
we get rid of the occupation of Palestine no solidarity movement in the world can change the mystery for the
1:21:51
Palestinian people that is our duty and if every one of you go out from this meeting today and decide for yourself
1:21:58
that you want to be a a Powerhouse of solidarity we’re going to change the world we’re going to change the
1:22:04
Norwegian government we’re going to change the reality of the Norwegian politics it’s up to
1:22:11
us [Applause] yes yes um thank you so much Dr Gilbert
1:22:18
um I’m Wonder actually as a followup to that this is now our third segment um on rebuilding Gaza because I think think it
1:22:24
speaks to some of the points you mentioning uh with respect to the humanitarian industry or the noism if
1:22:30
you will um how can we as a International Community that’s uh genuinely invested in the um rebuilding
1:22:38
of Gaza um do so without reproducing colonialism without reproducing
1:22:44
structural racism without reproducing apartheid without doing any of these things honoring the uh Collective
1:22:50
determination and autonomy of the Palestinian people I have a very short answer and then I
1:22:57
keep shut listen to the Palestinian voice that’s why we invited Dr baruti
1:23:02
because we have for far too long been deciding here in the European countries what the Palestinians need what is the
1:23:08
situation bring up infront the Palestinian voice they know what they need from us and let’s reply to that
1:23:25
yes Dr
1:23:31
vti I put the ball on your foot you’re most
1:23:37
welcome by the way Natan just fired Galant ah I was just looking yeah bad
1:23:45
news or good news so he’s creating now internal trouble he’s using the day of
1:23:50
the American elections yeah
1:23:56
well uh before we talk about rebuilding Gaza we have to stop the destruction of
1:24:03
Gaza we have to stop the genocide that is happening so the most important and
1:24:09
immediate immediate task now is to stop the terrible aggression on Gaza and I I
1:24:16
can’t even call it a war because it’s more than a war it’s an aggression uh it’s not two sides
1:24:22
fighting it’s one side destroying a whole country and that applies to Lebanon now up up till this moment the
1:24:31
Israeli Army erased to the ground 36 Lebanese Villages completely I mean
1:24:39
not a single house is left everything was destroyed so you are
1:24:45
talking about such a destructive force and such a a terrible violation of every human right
1:24:55
uh and and that’s why the most immediate goal is to stop this madness and stop
1:25:00
this terrible fascist from continuing this war and uh that cannot happen
1:25:08
except with a very very huge two operations one is pressure on your
1:25:17
governments to really take different stands from what’s Happening up till now
1:25:23
and to create the largest possible boycott divestment sanctions campaign
1:25:29
worldwide not a a a BDS campaign that is not even
1:25:35
limited to ending the war but to ending the occupation and ending the system of
1:25:41
aperti what we need to see is a very large boycott divestment sanctions
1:25:46
campaign similar and even bigger to what happened during the aparti system in
1:25:52
South Africa I remember the first day the first time I came to this wonderful
1:25:58
country and met this met the first time I met your people here in in Norway was
1:26:05
in 1987 I remember it was a very cold winter and it was
1:26:12
January and the house I stayed in was a house which hosted the representatives
1:26:20
of the ANC from South Africa and Norway
1:26:25
and I told the I told your members of parliament yesterday this and also I
1:26:32
told it to the foreign minister today Norway was in the avanguard of anti-
1:26:38
aparte and in creation of a huge solidarity movement against the aparte
1:26:44
system in South Africa we need Norway to be in that place I think now even your government
1:26:51
is convinced that this whole game of being a mediator between us and
1:26:58
Israel is over and it’s not necessary what you need to be as a
1:27:04
country as people is not to be a mediator between the criminal and the victim but to be in solidarity with the
1:27:12
victim to be in solidarity with the Palestinian people
1:27:20
and and that means and that means immediate and total divestment from any
1:27:27
company that deals with Israel you have up till now I was told by your colleagues that you have about $2.3
1:27:35
billion dollar of investment still in 50 companies that are
1:27:41
classified as participant in the crimes because they are they support
1:27:47
settlements they support military ER structures that support
1:27:52
Israeli aggression and so forth on and so forth so you have a very clear task here and please believe in yourself
1:28:00
because I totally agree with you every every voice here matters you are a small
1:28:05
country and voices will matter I think the power you have if you exercise it on
1:28:12
the Parliament and on the government and on the parties will eventually make a difference and they already divested
1:28:20
from elit and and and uh that’s a very good step they already recognized Palestine I
1:28:26
remember coming here and talking to your government about the need to recognize Palestine and today they told me as you
1:28:33
see we have recognized Palestine well great but now we need more and that
1:28:39
means pressure them now is the time you have every element that allows you to
1:28:46
exercise effective pressure now is the time to pressure if you take away these
1:28:52
$2.3 billion from that investment this will make a
1:28:57
difference and then push more I know you have contacts with European governments
1:29:04
and with Europe European countries other European countries it’s shameful that Europe continues to be the largest
1:29:11
Trader with Israel and I think countries now like the prime minister of Spain is calling
1:29:17
now to this to to to finish this agreement between Europe and Israel so
1:29:23
there is a precedent here and I think all of that has to happen now about
1:29:31
reconstruction I promise you we will rebuild everything that was
1:29:36
destroyed in Gaza we will rebuild every school we will rebuild every Clinic we
1:29:44
will rebuild every house we the Palestinians whoever wants to help us
1:29:54
whoever wants to help us you’re most welcome but it’s not in it’s not just
1:30:01
that we want something else we want Israel to be forced to pay
1:30:08
compensation for every house they have
1:30:15
destroyed and and I promise you we will follow
1:30:20
them they forc Germany to pay lots of compensation for the destruction they have caused which is good they also have
1:30:28
to pay compensation now even if we can’t force it now we will continue we will
1:30:34
never stop every crime that was committed will be remembered every
1:30:40
person that was killed will be remembered and we will not stop as I
1:30:46
told you we have the right to struggle for our freedom and we have the right to struggle for every person every child
1:30:55
every man and woman every house every hospital that was destroyed and I want
1:31:00
to thank you because I don’t want to take more of your time I know we are limited with time but as a
1:31:09
representative of Palestinian medical Relief Society I want to thank you for
1:31:14
the fact that you came today because by coming and participating in this meeting you are supporting us and I want you to
1:31:21
know that at this moment we have 7 26 Medical Teams working all over Gaza from
1:31:28
the north to the South including jabalia including Bahia including the destroyed
1:31:33
places and our teams are providing treatment to 200,000 people every month
1:31:40
they are providing care to the injured people who cannot stay in hospitals they are providing care to the people who are
1:31:47
suffering now from terrible infections 112,000 people are suffering from in
1:31:53
inous hepatitis now in Gaza and as I agreed with some I don’t want to speak
1:31:59
on behalf of others but Israel actually is conducting not only genocide they are
1:32:06
conducting implicit biological warfare and implicit chemical warfare on the
1:32:12
people of Gaza and we are trying to deal with that so thank you for your help and
1:32:18
I want to say to you from on behalf of all these wonderful heroes in Gaza they’re all from Gaza all our medical
1:32:25
teams are from Gaza the doctors are from Gaza the nurses are from Gaza these are real heroes that are doing wonderful
1:32:33
work and I want to tell you that they thank you for being supportive to the
1:32:39
great work we are doing thank you so much thank
1:32:49
you so um do Dr Gilbert do you want to jump in just quickly before we go to the
1:32:55
final word or two very yes short comments on what we can do because I
1:33:01
support everything sta has said and I think we actually need to continue this
1:33:08
work to establish a platform like the Oslo conversation where we make sure
1:33:13
that the uh Palestinian voice is Amplified again and again and this is
1:33:19
only the start we will do that but our homework is number one to get educ it I
1:33:24
call it evidence-based solidarity we need to study more we need to know the facts we need to read the history and we
1:33:31
need to go beyond free Palestine Beyond children should live we need to go for
1:33:37
the context in our solidarity work now we need to address and the occupation of Palestine we need to address and the
1:33:45
genocide of the Palestinian people and we need actually to be very vocal in our support for the occupied people’s right
1:33:51
to resist also with weapon within the limits of the Geneva Convention and international law second thing I think
1:33:58
we have on our work uh list is to engage the sports in Norway we need to engage
1:34:04
soccer football handball and we need to build preparedness for the day when an Israel national team or any club comes
1:34:12
we have upcoming bicycle rides in our competitions in Norway this coming summer and I think we have been far too
1:34:20
lenient in allowing the sports Community not to uh make a Stand and Show where
1:34:26
they’re standing um yeah and then I think we can do a lot
1:34:33
more with the unions I think the unions have made some very important statements in El Congress but they not been
1:34:39
followed up why don’t we have a general strike in Norway against the genocide in in
1:34:45
Gaza and we are we are the people we are the people who can be the nucleuses uh
1:34:51
for that organization uh the youth we need to engage the youth even more today’s poll
1:34:57
shows that our next prime minister may be silav we have a lot of work to do we
1:35:03
have to roll up our sleeves because if Sil list and the progress party are
1:35:08
becoming the majority party after the next election Palestine solidarity will
1:35:14
face more tough challenges but we will never give up we will never stop until
1:35:20
there is a free Palestine you can trust us on that thank you
1:35:33
yes well yeah of course yes um final comment well yes I think we have time
1:35:39
just for a final word we’ll perhaps start with the honorable Member of Parliament Fisco and um and with Dr
1:35:47
barti so uh final word uh one minute I agree with um matz Gilbert in
1:35:56
uh that the hope lies in uh the people the people of Norway the the the op
1:36:03
General opinion is very clear uh but we have to work uh even harder uh to engage
1:36:09
more people to educate ourselves uh to use all those kind of opportunities to
1:36:15
build a stronger Sol solidarity movement uh based on the the right to selfdetermination of the Palestinian
1:36:22
people and to to um not be complicit uh to withdraw all our uh
1:36:30
money and and uh contributions to the war crimes and to the occupation and to
1:36:37
uh and yeah to to build this uh solidarity movement on on these
1:36:42
principles uh I I have um uh I I see a
1:36:48
great hope in in the uh people of Norway and also in many other Western uh
1:36:55
countries uh that we have uh the opportunity to maybe slowly but uh
1:37:02
gradually also uh change the politics of uh Europe and the Western
1:37:12
World very little to add to the Fantastic uh evening and great uh
1:37:19
encouragement I would say we also need to expand
1:37:24
uh our uh groups we have to include not only The Usual Suspects not only the
1:37:31
people who are convinced and one way of doing it is to understand exactly what
1:37:40
intimidates what uh prevents good people who are not here tonight from expressing
1:37:46
solidarity with the Palestinians Israel weaponizes in this country as in
1:37:51
everywhere else two weapons one is the allegation of anti-Semitism and the other one is an
1:37:58
allegation of Holocaust denial instead of saying we are not
1:38:04
anti-sites we are not Holocaust deniers we should take the initiative and talk
1:38:10
to people and explain to them how Israel is part of
1:38:16
anti-Semitism talk to the Jewish people who understand it remind people that
1:38:22
there are many many Jews in the world are not zionists and unfortunately there are many zionists in the world that are
1:38:28
not Jews unfortunately there even Arabs and Muslims who are zionists so we have
1:38:33
to we have to make sure that this is the conversation that we are talking about
1:38:38
an ideology that even people who are not here today I’m sure would accept that is
1:38:46
not uh one that they can support or endorse but they are intimidated because
1:38:52
it is intim ating to be called anti-site in this country or any other European
1:38:57
country or to be called the Holocaust denial instead of just being on the
1:39:03
defense we should to take the initiative and we should talk about the Holocaust
1:39:08
we should talk about anti-Semitism we should talk about racism and make sure
1:39:14
that the people who are lead the conversation of all these dark historical moments current problems of
1:39:21
racism are the people people who are in full support with the Palestinians and
1:39:27
this would expand our uh uh groups and movements and we will not be stuck only
1:39:34
with the groups that we already know and with our usual suspects we have a
1:39:39
message that has to be based on the belief that most of the people who are
1:39:44
not with us yet and are not here are good people and not bad people but they
1:39:49
are facing a propaganda that is powerful that has has been 100 years old that is
1:39:55
using these tactics of terrorism and intimidation also against you in order
1:40:00
to make sure that this is the only group that would come we we have the way of
1:40:06
doing it but we have to be uh uh taking the initiatives on all these issues and
1:40:12
not just on solidarity with Palestine thank you
1:40:26
thank you I uh just one small addition to what I was said before I think
1:40:33
sanctions should start with milit total military embargo on Israel this is the
1:40:39
most immediate task that’s first second
1:40:46
uh I think we are in a very difficult
1:40:52
position we’re suffering a lot
1:40:58
but you might be surprised from what I will say in
1:41:04
reality the worst situation is where Israel is and I think in our
1:41:12
suffering and in all this situation we managed to defeat the biggest conspiracy
1:41:21
against Palestinian people which was to liquidate the Palestinian issue completely and marginalize it through
1:41:27
normalization with the Arab world and put us on the side and allow Israel to
1:41:35
totally Annex the Palestinian territories forever we defeated that
1:41:41
already it’s defeated and more important I can see Reen re energization of a
1:41:49
whole new generation to understand the Palestinian issue I remember less than
1:41:56
maybe two years ago when I attended solidarity meetings with Palestinians
1:42:01
you would look at the hall and see only with all due respect of course to old people and I am among them you will only
1:42:09
see old people sitting in the hall now look at yourself it’s a whole new generation
1:42:16
that now is back to is coming now to support the Palestinian people and the
1:42:22
Palestinian right and that’s why I am so optimistic about the future because and
1:42:28
Lena told me how many new members you already have now in in Norway she tells
1:42:35
me now every day you have new members in the solidarity committee that’s a
1:42:43
reflection that is that is a reflection of the new reality and it’s not only
1:42:49
here it’s also in the United States when more than 77 % of the younger generation
1:42:55
in the Democratic Party in the United States does not agree with Biden and is
1:43:01
supportive to the Palestinian cause that’s a huge change and it will reflect itself on the future if we continue to
1:43:09
be well organized and if we are also more organized and better organized so I
1:43:15
am optimistic about the future even young Jewish people young Jewish people
1:43:20
in the United States who are now Oran organizing and saying not in our names
1:43:26
we will allow Israel to continue to commit these crimes these are very encouraging
1:43:34
things so we are on the right track guys we are winning and we will be Victorious
1:43:42
and they will be defeated but I ask you for one thing every morning when you
1:43:48
wake up remember the children of Gaza remember remember the people of
1:43:54
Palestine remember this struggle and let’s try to get organized more and more
1:43:59
and more because we can only defeat them with much better organization thank you so
1:44:14
much I I was sure I would shut up but I couldn’t because a very practical Direct
1:44:23
action from what Mustafa just said is before you leave this audience tonight if you’re not organized organize
1:44:30
yourself become a member of the Palestine committee tonight
1:44:40
please yes and thank you everyone so much for for being here in solidarity
1:44:45
with with the guest with Palestine thank thank you thank you thank you yes thank you thank you
1:44:53
yes
oooooo
We Basques do need a real Basque independent State in the Western Pyrenees, just a democratic lay or secular state, with all the formal characteristics of any independent State: Central Bank, Treasury, proper currency, out of the European Distopia and faraway from NAT0, maybe being a BRICS partner…
Ikus Euskal Herriaren independentzia eta Mikel Torka
ooooooo
MMT: Modern Monetary Theory
Understanding how money works so that we can address climate change easily and prosperously plus address AI’s impact on humanity.
Members: https://x.com/i/communities/1672597800385921024/members
(…)
oooooo
