Palestina: erresilientzia (22)

Aipamena

Itay Epshtain@EpshtainItay

Aipamena

BreakThrough News@BTnewsroom

oooooo

Introduction

0:00

these journalists they’re not stupid they could tell they could see through these

0:05

slides but they’re not stupid they’re spineless every accusation is a confession and this is something that

0:11

we’ve witnessed more so in the past 8

0:16

months everything that they’ve said they commit and this is why going back to you

0:22

know why they think uh from the river to the sea is a genocidal chant it’s because this is a confession I mean it’s

0:29

an Israeli defensive force and it has never acted in self-defense there is no

0:36

way that you can say a settler Colonial occupying power is acting in

0:41

self-defense in any capacity in any capacity it’s not

0:46

possible so hello and welcome back to Palestine Deep dive today I’m thrilled

0:51

to be joined by another Palestinian journalist a fellow Palestinian journalist um she’s Palestinian

0:58

Australian and she is uh a researcher and she is also the founder co-founder

1:04

of hbar tracker so um Welcome to our podcast thank you thank you for having

1:10

me oh thank you for coming actually I’m I’m very interested in this topic today as you know I did my master’s degree in

1:16

in journalism and my disertation was about the Western media coverage and husar so today we’re going to talk much

1:24

about the hbra and what that means but before that allow me to share this with you um

1:30

it’s actually a tweet that I I posted today and maybe you you shared it I shared it yeah yeah we launched our mm

1:37

Memorial Library in our encampment but today we’re renaming this building to

1:44

mahmood’s

1:58

home so it’s was about this this video I shared it made my day today I woke up to

2:06

watch it and it made my day it made me cry for the first time in many months actually and it was of so many

2:13

Australian students who were protesting at at milborne University and then they

2:21

renamed a hole or a a building in at the University after my brother

2:26

Mahmud uh because Mahmud won a scholarship the Australian scholarship to do his master’s degree in

2:32

international relations at Melbourne University unfortunately he was killed before he go that so that video it made my day it

2:41

made me it it filled me with hope that my brother is not forgotten that so many

2:47

people are knowing of my brother and they read about him and they love him and they’re willing to rename uh a

2:55

building after him so allow me to ask you when you saw

3:00

this video H how did you feel yeah I mean when I saw that video

3:05

it was incredibly touching and moving and it also showed how far along

3:15

uh Palestine activism has come in the Australian Colony so it was yeah it was

3:23

it gave me goosebumps to see that to see the Reclamation of a building on a

3:28

University campus uh honoring your brother you said the Australian Colony why do you call it

3:33

this way because it is a colony uh it’s the settler Colony uh that was incepted

3:39

by the British Empire and the Australian

3:46

colony subjugates and has subjugated indigenous people and so there are many

3:52

parallels between the situation in Palestine and the situation in Australia

3:57

do you call Israel as um another British colony in Palestine yeah I call I call I

4:03

don’t even like to say the word Israel because it lends it you know legitimacy and it’s the name that they use I say

4:11

Israeli State the Israeli Colony the Zionist entity uh or settler Colonial

4:16

project I think the language that we use is incredibly important and I try to be

4:23

as conscious of that as possible even when speaking about um Australia or the

4:28

Australian Colony for example tell me more about um the pro Palestine movement in Australia how is it going is it big

4:35

because today the video that I saw it were like hundreds of students were there I was like oh my I did not know

4:41

that I did not know that so many students are protesting uh at Melbourne University are there other protests at

4:48

other universities yeah there are there are encampments happening across multiple universities in Sydney as well I would

4:57

say that I mean I haven’t been in a Australia for a little over a year uh or

5:03

haven’t spent much time there actually in the past 2 years but it is something

5:10

that has certainly taken the Israeli State uh and zist Lobby groups based in

5:17

Australia by surprise actually I recall during the Sydney Festival boycott that

5:23

happened in the year 2022 the complete sense of

5:30

confusion uh and Horror by the Israeli Ambassador at the time who said in an

5:36

interview that I was also featured in uh we never thought we didn’t think this would happen in Australia and I think

5:43

because of the distance and the fact that it’s a continent and an island

5:48

halfway across the world and feels quite far removed uh from the rest of the world that

5:54

people weren’t able to sort of Envision this sort of thing happening but I also

6:00

can’t talk about Palestine activism without talking about the activism of

6:06

indigenous people uh since the establishment of the Australian State the Australian Colony uh and it’s that

6:15

solidarity and that that strength and that that fight

6:22

for the land um that so many indigenous activists have been involved in that has

6:28

set really the stage for for the activism that we’re seeing now but

6:34

you’re also a Palestinian so tell me the story of your family how did you end up in Australia and where are where are you

6:39

from from Palestine so I I mean I would always introduce myself as a Palestinian

6:45

I don’t really associate with being Australian to be honest uh but my family

6:51

is from on my dad’s side it’s uh from the Jal from a village outside of uh

6:58

safad named Alma uh and my paternal grandmother is from

7:04

Safa and my mother’s side is from haa and AKA so uh we ended up in I mean I

7:11

always I ask myself this every day how they ended up in a in Australia uh even being here in the UK at the moment like

7:18

by choice uh it’s so far away and far removed from from from everywhere uh but my dad

7:26

was born in a refugee camp uh in Lebanon the refugee camp so my

7:34

grandparents and my great-grandparents were uh exiled and they left thinking that they would return um in 1948 after

7:43

two or 3 weeks Max and it’s been 76 years and we still have family in the in

7:49

the refugee camps uh and my mother was born in the Emirates and they were stateless uh and then they were kicked

7:56

out of the Emirates um during the sort of great po of of Palestinians uh what is that what is the

8:03

great birge of pales Great Purge I mean because the peo at the time had Allied

8:09

itself with Saddam husin and so there was a there was a collective punishment

8:15

of sorts um so to take a stance they displaced all the Palestinians that

8:22

were living there and you have been living in the UK for a year now yeah a

8:27

little over a year but you also served as a Jour you worked as a journalist in Australia and then you moved to the UK

8:33

and you worked in the UK so can you tell us about how do you compare compare life in Australia to your life here in the UK

8:42

in terms of being vocal and um vocal about Palestine yeah I mean that’s a

8:48

really interesting question because I think wherever I am I’m always going to be vocal on Palestine the difference

8:56

between Australia and the UK I would say is the

9:02

Australian media industry or the media class uh and the political class is very

9:09

small it’s very tiny uh it’s an echo chamber extremely Zionist and right-wing

9:15

uh even the the self-proclaimed sort of liberals of Australian Media or in

9:20

Australian politics are not um which you’ll find anywhere I think growing up

9:26

in Australia I always felt a sense of of unease to be honest and it’s something I

9:32

wasn’t able to articulate until much later uh I think it’s just the the pure fact of

9:40

being a settler there being a settler migrant even though my parents are refugees this land is not ours and we

9:48

are benefiting off of the complete Erasure uh of indigenous people and the

9:53

many different indigenous countries uh within like the Australian colony and

10:00

it just never really sat right with me uh as a Palestinian uh people talk about the

10:06

beautiful weather and the beautiful beaches and landscapes in Australia but

10:12

there was always a sense of melancholy uh for me I never really

10:17

connected I always felt like there was something um off and there was there was a

10:24

spiritual sort of rot there uh being in the UK I mean it it is the heart of the

10:30

British Empire of course we’re in the Metropole we’re in the belly of the beast but at least it’s where it should

10:39

be uh and so I feel a lot more comfortable being u in the UK and I

10:45

think the UK in terms of organizing and sort of the politics of

10:52

many groups and communities and collectives is years perhaps even

10:58

decades head of that in Australia um and I think it’s because there are

11:04

such large well organized and established communities here how have you and your family uh

11:12

been coping uh since the 7th of October for the past seven months I know you don’t have links to GA

11:19

you you or your family did not come from Gaza but Gaza is at the heart of the Palestinian C right now so how has it

11:26

affected you and your family well we don’t have immediate links

11:32

toza I mean my uh brother-in-law has relatives in in Gazza that were uh

11:40

unfortunately like mared uh during the first month of the

11:45

the genocide I mean it’s affected Us in the way it’s affected many Palestinians uh I

11:52

would say there’s a sense of sense of just overwhelming

11:59

hopelessness but hope at the same time and a sense

12:07

of yeah I it’s it’s really difficult to articulate it’s just been a very

12:13

unnerving and absurd time especially in light of the news that we see or the

12:20

analysis that we see uh compared and contrasted with the

12:25

reality on the on the ground I feel like we’re all being collectively like gust

12:31

lit and it’s infuriating it’s infuriating to to see the news rehash

12:37

you know Israeli press releases and and spread propaganda um as they always have done

12:44

so right so yeah it’s been an incredibly difficult time I feel like at

12:52

the same time it’s provided a lot of clarity in a sense in terms of where our

12:57

focus should be uh who the people around us should be as

13:03

well who we actually give give time and benefit of the doubtful uh things have

13:09

always been quite black and white but I think now there really is no there’s no

13:15

gray area there’s no leeway here uh and so I feel

13:21

like in light of this constant feeling of of of grief uh and a sense of

13:29

powerlessness as well we’re out on the streets or we’re organizing and

13:34

campaigning for BDS but there still we’re still not able to to stop

13:40

the bombs we’re still not able to to really affect anything materially and

13:46

it’s and it’s enraging and it’s just also a reminder of the ongoing you know ethnic cleansing

13:54

76 years of this there are so many things we have been unable to stop even if the world is with us or the people of

14:02

the world are with us and you have been doing a lot of work within the hbra

14:08

tracka which you started we will talk um a bit about this

14:15

organization this platform that you started but first allow me to ask you what is hbar and where did this word

14:23

this term come from where did it originate from so the term hospital is a

14:29

Hebrew word and it roughly translates to explaining or to explain or

14:34

explanation uh but the word itself is also quite euphemistic and is hospit in a way because what it stands for the

14:42

meaning that it actually encompasses is propaganda and public diplomacy and uh

14:47

and and very much Central to the Israeli State and

14:53

how it imagines itself or How It Wants To Be Imagined so the term hospit was first really coined in 1912 by one of

15:02

the early Zionist Pioneers or activists his name is Nom

15:07

sakala uh and he later became the president of the world Zionist Congress

15:13

and it’s just a way to again make this

15:19

intense propaganda seem quite benign that these are just explanations these

15:26

are just clarifications of why the Israeli State needs to exist why they needs to be a Jewish state so the term

15:32

was also coined obviously before the Inception of the Israeli state so they

15:37

were Paving the way to sell really the idea of a Jewish nation state at the

15:44

expense of of Palestinians in Palestine and so how were they to do that to to

15:49

use I mean many of the the tropes that we hear about Palestine being a land

15:55

without uh people for people without a land uh a desert that needs to to bloom

16:02

um so that’s what husp has always been

16:08

and it manifests itself in many different ways uh but it’s it’s become

16:14

as of the last few decades a real a policy a policy uh driven by the Israeli

16:20

state by the Israeli state do they have U other institutions internally or

16:28

externally that help help disseminate this husar and false information and misinformation around Israel and

16:35

whatever they’re doing yeah so they have a hospital Department within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and uh

16:42

digital diplomacy Department as well so I mean in essence I would say that any

16:49

sort of communication that comes from the Israeli state is Hospital uh but they do have

16:55

a very strategic way of ensuring this hospital is

17:02

disseminated be that through press releases be that through the relationships that they build with uh

17:09

editors or journalists and newsrooms be that the propaganda tours or the junkets

17:14

that they hold uh or just their presence on on social media or uh using people

17:22

and students as well like deser students uh who’ve been hired to also inate

17:29

hospit online and respond to people and debate and to distract as well so it’s

17:36

uh it’s a Well oiled machine it’s a global concerted effort to ensure that

17:42

the Israeli narrative uh thrives and survives and

17:48

also to ensure that you know the international uh view of Israel of the

17:55

Israeli State uh remains a sympathetic one what what institutions are complicit

18:02

uh in disseminating the Israeli husar today do you have some names I mean so

18:07

many I would start with most media Outlets to be honest uh it’s a symbiotic

18:13

relationship between the Israeli State and these media Outlets uh the middlemen

18:18

tend to be Zionist Lobby groups uh for example some of the the larger ones that come to

18:25

mind are of course stand with us the Israel project uh which does a lot of work uh in American campuses as well

18:32

targeting students and uh I mean many different Zionist organizations all

18:39

around the world uh the embassies as well uh act as uh a way

18:46

to be that that middleman um which I’ve viewed firsthand or I’ve experienced

18:52

firsthand uh as a journalist working in in newsrooms uh and they also it’s not just

18:58

the media I mean it’s within the private sector or within different um Arts

19:03

institutions cultural institutions anything really can be corupted other social causes can be coopted um a hospit

19:11

is is everywhere the sounds a scary it is it is very scary I mean are

19:19

you scared of it though no I think they’re pathetic I mean it’s it’s absolutely pathetic uh it’s a joke um

19:27

it’s a joke it’s always been a joke I mean Israeli propaganda is you know people say that Israeli propaganda now

19:33

is like so much worse I’m like it’s always been this bad allow me to disagree with you it’s not a joke because I believe that the hbar has been

19:41

doing an important work in enabling the genocide that we see today because without this like mainstream

19:47

misinformation coverage and the hosper and all of this work that they have been doing since the 7th of October I don’t

19:53

think Israel would have been able to commit as many massacres as they could

19:58

to destroy Gaza like you know they have been successful but in the same vein

20:04

let’s say now we’re watching hospital being completely dismantled

20:10

right the there’s been a seismic shift in uh opinion and the Israeli State doesn’t have the international sympathy

20:17

that it always aims to Ghana have the massacres

20:22

stopped this is about the material interest of the US um in the Middle East

20:29

and in Palestine for them it’s a bonus to have people look upon the Israeli State as

20:35

this liberal democracy as this Beacon of civilization doesn’t matter to them

20:40

ultimately I mean they’re still going to do what they have long been doing of course they would love for it to be

20:47

whitewashed and it makes things easier but unfortunately we are still

20:52

witnessing the complete decimation of Gazza what is stopping it right now

21:03

what yeah I mean of course when I say it’s a joke it’s I mean that Israeli

21:10

propaganda itself is just so pathetic I mean when you really look at the way

21:16

that narratives change and evolve how they backtrack how outlandish and

21:21

ridiculous some of them are you know it’s it’s absurd when you take a step back and you see that this this is what

21:28

being used to manufacture consent to slaughter people wholesale and to steal

21:35

Palestinian land it’s I mean it’s sickening and that’s what I mean when I say it’s a joke of course um I mean the

21:43

effects are are very real and I mean that’s why Hospital track is for me why

21:49

I started it it’s an important project uh

21:54

because I believe documenting and recording and archiving this sort of

22:00

stuff is important it’s something that I’ve realized also throughout the

22:06

archiving and the research process as we speak during this genocide

22:12

Israeli press releases have been pulled offline for some of the claims that

22:18

they’ve made um and so they’re already trying to mold and reshape the stories

22:25

in real time we’re witnessing historical revisionism as they always always do in real time you know when you when you

22:30

said the joke something came up to my mind which can actually be a joke but it’s it’s not a joke but it should be a

22:38

joke actually I remembered when the Israeli tanks invaded a shifa hospital

22:43

and then they disseminated footage of like some guns that they bought in shifa

22:50

hospital and it was very very very clear that it was made up but yet we have seen

22:58

the Wern media disseminate the same footage and claiming it is real it is authentic so stuff like that should be a

23:06

joke it should be ridiculed all over the Western media because these journalists they’re not stupid they

23:13

could tell they could see through these slides but they’re not stupid they’re spineless they’re spineless they’re

23:19

spineless I mean take the case of say my experience in news rooms in Australia

23:25

many of the journalists and you know colleagues that I unfortunately had went

23:31

on propaganda tours to occupied Palestine and in being wh and d and also

23:37

having stories fed to them not necessarily necessarily about Palestine uh about anything to kind of

23:44

help their journalistic career in a sense I mean this buys loyalty in a

23:52

sense and they really drink the Kool-Aid I mean there’s an element of them being

23:59

I mean some of them are stupid I have to say um and some of them are racist of course and that’s what it is I mean they

24:06

genuinely believe in the the Zer project being you know this buffer uh this like

24:13

front for for Western Civilization um but the spinelessness

24:19

also comes from the fact that a lot of the Zionist Lobby

24:26

groups I wouldn’t say like well organized but they love to complain and so when you have an editor

24:33

of a paper uh being flooded with complaints by people who have also

24:41

established many relationships you know within the sort of broader Community with

24:47

politicians um it it it frightens them a bit and it’s also something that they don’t necessarily want to deal with it’s

24:54

like well if we end up running the story or if we end up saying occupied territories the Zionist Lobby

25:01

is going to inundate us with all these letters and phone calls which they do and so that’s where the spinelessness is

25:09

instead of standing up and and asserting themselves they’d rather not deal with it because a lot of these zus Lobby

25:17

organizations have created that environment to ensure that it’s something that is just not worth

25:23

touching and one of the lines that is very prevalent in the media and um across politician s all around the world

25:29

is Israel has the right to defend itself it’s like we’re hearing it every every

25:34

everywhere my question is does Israel really have the right to defend itself against occupied people of Palestine the

25:41

colonized people of Palestine the besieged people of Palestine like how does this line play

25:47

in the this this hasper uh that we see in the west

25:52

today yeah it’s Hospital 101 I mean this idea that the Israeli state has the

25:58

right to defend itself I mean the Israeli State and the Israeli occupation forces were born out of these offensive

26:06

militias that ethnically cleansed Palestine like urgan and hagana and Stern gang I mean it’s an Israeli

26:14

offensive force and it has never acted in self-defense there is no way that you

26:21

can say a settler Colonial occupying power is acting in self-defense in any

26:27

capacity in any capacity it’s not possible and according to to the

26:32

international law does Israel have the right to defend itself against the people it occupy if we are going to talk about

26:39

international law the international within international law the right of occupied people is enshrined

26:47

to resist even with armed resistance against their occupier so the right

26:53

therein lies with Palestinians but International laws also

26:58

I mean it doesn’t have much teeth and it’s clearly over the past seven eight months uh any talk of international law

27:04

feels almost FAL in a sense but they keep repeat the same thing over and over

27:10

and over Israel has a right to defend itself Israel has for so many years and then it’s called the Israeli Defense

27:16

Forces so when people who don’t know anything about this conflict when people

27:21

like they don’t know the context of this conflict they would think that oh my God these poor Israelis are just defending

27:27

themselves against these terrorist Arabs but they don’t know that this Israeli Army is the army that is committing

27:34

genocide this genocide did not start from the 7th of October it started 76

27:40

years ago but repeating the lies over and over and over and over and using that benign language self-defense

27:46

self-defense and the Palestinians are just terrorists so I think all of this like it’s it’s part of the hasper

27:53

Absolut that they have been very successful at unfortunate absolutely I mean the again the language that’s used

27:59

is incredibly important and that’s why with hospit tracker we don’t refer to say the iof as

28:07

the IDF because that in and of itself is is is propaganda that is the explanation

28:13

that they use remember hospa means to explain that is not correct by any means

28:20

and so even the language that we use uh is incredibly important and unfortunately because the Israeli State

28:29

and also its partners and beneficiaries have repeated these lines

28:34

over and over and over again it’s become quite internalized by uh media Outlets

28:40

as well it’s become it’s become truth it’s completely revisionist and so

28:47

unfortunately as you said when people who aren’t necessarily privy to the situation in Palestine do hear about you

28:54

know the the Defense Forces uh or their to self-defense I mean and this is also

29:02

really what’s underpinning it all is is racism uh anti-arab racism anti-

29:07

Palestinian racism uh islamophobia

29:13

because the right to to any defense for example if we’re even going to indulge it I mean it’s something that I don’t

29:19

even want to indulge uh but that right for example is only ever extended to um

29:27

say in this instance the Israeli State uh if you take

29:33

say Ukraine and Russia for example uh ukrainians who are responding to the

29:40

Russian invasion are defending themselves they’re not terrorists they’re resistance Fighters

29:47

and that isn’t afforded to non-white people it’s really that

29:53

simple so it’s all U racism yeah of course

29:58

what is the worst lie that you heard from Israel during this genocide can you

30:05

think of one H so many the worst the worst yeah I mean

30:11

worst in the s in the sense of the impact it’s had or rather worst

30:18

as in like pathetic pathetic because for me they’re pathetic

30:23

it is yeah pathetic one of the one that comes to mind of course is the

30:31

uh the calendar um of the days of the week in

30:38

Arabic right here’s a list this list in Arabic in Arabic this

30:46

list says we are in an operation the operation against Israel started in the

30:53

7th of October this is a guardian list where every terrorist writes his name

30:59

and every ter has his own shift guarding the people that were here listen do you

31:05

think that Israel because many of the Israeli Army officials they can speak Arabic they

31:11

speak Arabic they read Arabic so some when when that picture came and it was

31:16

like really none of you could read Arabic none of you could tell that this is actually a calendar because they rely

31:23

on others to not know right they rely on

31:28

the International Community and say for the most part like they you know hospit

31:34

is public diplomacy that’s outwards and generally towards it’s aimed towards a

31:40

western audience and so you know Joe Blow is going to see it and just be like

31:46

oh yeah humas right and not Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday

31:52

Sunday but uh let me let me ask another question why does the Western media and

31:57

the J always sayas it’s notas it’s and you can’t say

32:03

the can say why you sayas like do you want to scare us with this exactly yeah

32:08

no it’s to to invoke this like gutal sort of you know uh you know it’s like

32:14

you’re coughing up fleem right it’s almost this it’s this heaviness and that’s what they want to associate with

32:20

you know Hamas as well it’s like it is it’s this like

32:25

uh racist sort of like window dressing they can’t just say Hamas and I remember

32:32

during the international uh Court of justices uh provisional measures hearing you had

32:39

these Israeli lawyers from all over the world Australian American and they were all saying Kamas

32:46

Kamas I mean it’s just it’s become I think one of those things that

32:51

they yeah it’s it’s it’s strange but it’s just kind of invoke a sort of fear in others and it sounds very Arabic

32:58

right the it’s gutal even though the in Hebrew they have those sounds

33:04

but what’s the most ridiculous lie you’ve ever heard from the Israeli husb

33:09

Israeli media and their

33:14

accomplishes something that actually made you laugh because for me so many so many

33:21

times during this genocide they would just say stuff and I would look at that and laugh I mean it’s I’m try I’m trying

33:28

to Rack my brain because there are so many instances I mean I’ve been in a state of like disbelief the entire time

33:34

because I’m so in this so I’m constantly just like reading and just being like I think one

33:40

of them was okay uh the iof shared a press

33:47

release saying that this mask was being used by Hamas and the evidence that they had was

33:54

this piece of paper that had um basically some of the like mosques

33:59

beneficiaries like people who donate to the mosque it had like the name of the Imam and also like the party that

34:05

they’re with and then the name of another IM or someone to that effect and the name of the party that they’re with

34:11

so you had someone from Hamas and you had like a fat person and it was just like just a document kind of certifying

34:18

that like this mask is like running but they used that and they were like Hamas

34:23

is there it’s written there therefore Hamas is using this mask as a vase I

34:28

mean like the links are so tenuous I mean even if the links were D direct like it still doesn’t justify any of it

34:35

right but they are really grappling at

34:40

anything anything whatsoever also the bo the boxes and they’re taking boxes of

34:46

medicine to alifa hospital and they had like in English and it just said like

34:51

medicine uh there’s on also on the 7th of October one of the Israeli soldiers

34:56

said that he saw the that Hamas killed the the kids and they hang them on the lines of it was like really are you

35:04

serious yeah it shouldn’t make us laugh but the baby baked in an oven the baby

35:10

baked in an oven like come on like what what are you talking about I mean this is something that unfortunately the

35:15

media would pick up these sles of course of course and they did and they still repeat it as well even though these things have been debunked they still

35:22

repeat it it’s out there it doesn’t matter how outlandish a claim made by the Israeli

35:29

state is it puts it out there it ensures that it’s covered and then these things

35:34

are never Revisited again because in the media the first ambition always lasts forever and they

35:40

know that yeah so Janine let’s go through some of the lies that you have helped to uh debunk so I’m going to say

35:48

the lines the headlines and you tell me how you helped debunk D claims it’s going to be fun yeah okay yeah I’m ready

35:55

let’s go so the first one is hospital was attacked by Palestinian Rockets not

36:01

Israeli forces how did we debunk that

36:08

specifically so I mean with all the claims that we have uh the way that we

36:13

uh debunking them is in chronological order so we first locate where I mean

36:19

the the claim was first made and we find the primary sources uh and then follow it from there and so with this one in

36:25

particular I mean it’s just again outlandish that after bombing and attacking many

36:33

hospitals I mean which they’ve always done um that they decided at that sort

36:38

of key juncture that it wasn’t them it was a it was a misfired rocket and so what we did is we provided some context

36:45

first as well so the way that the hospital tracker database is fashioned

36:51

is that we have the claims the debunks and the context and the context

36:57

is really important it so in the context of the alah hospital uh that they deny

37:03

that they bombed it uh or that they they Struck it uh so we provide some context

37:09

for example the Israeli State uh already dropped 6,000 bombs on Gaza within the

37:14

first week right uh and this is perhap objectively more than what the

37:22

US and their Allied Forces used in Afghanistan in the year 2019 in the entire year uh the Israeli State also

37:31

targeted alah Hospital multiple times um they were already attacking the hospital

37:37

and so again they used this claim and and it worked really because people

37:45

media Outlets politicians became so hung up on after witnessing already the

37:50

slaughter and the and the bombings of this particular strike it was just a

37:56

complete destruction and again they used the line that they normally use

38:02

that it was Hamas uh so as you go through the claim there’s more context uh Al hospital was bombed

38:11

killing hundreds um and then it’s it’s a battern yeah first they say it’s Israel and then

38:19

after that they start slowly slowly lecturing in many many other cases they always do this they make the crime and

38:25

then the Palestinians kill themselves it was a Palestinian mistake and you know I was even doing when I when I post

38:33

something on Twitter the last time I said 35 Palestinians were killed and the comments they would say that okay 10,000

38:40

are Hamas and the rest are are are killed by Palestinians misfires so they

38:46

would tell me that half of the casualties in Gaza they were killed by the Palestinians themselves so they also

38:53

I mean they just make [ __ ] up they make [ __ ] up and people are they believe it but it’s very dangerous it is always the

38:59

Palestinians who kill themselves even when we die it is us we kill ourselves it’s disgusting it’s not only

39:07

like pathetic it’s disgusting and unfortunately like some people believe

39:12

them what do you think they believe them I think they believe them for

39:19

multiple reasons I would say I mean I

39:24

think I just want to say they’re [ __ ] idiots to be honest that’s really what I want to say no I

39:31

don’t think they’re idiots it’s like when you are misinforming the public for 76 years sending them Lies Over lies and

39:37

lies and lies again and then you over betray the Arabs and the Muslims and the Palestinians as terrorists not only by

39:43

the media but also by by Hollywood have you watched the movies about about the Arabs we live in the desert where we

39:49

like we have camels and then and we are anti-feminist and we hate women and we subjugate women and

39:56

women don’t have right and the Arabs with long beards and the islamists and they always like islamist in a very

40:02

negative way so they have been portraying the Arabs and the Muslims in a very negative way for so many years so

40:09

after 76 years when you post a lie about this when when you lie about us it’s

40:14

it’s it’s easier to believe plausible to to think that these are what Palestinians are are like these are what

40:20

Arabs are like and I mean in the case of Hollywood you have uh what’s his face you know Adam Sandler for example who

40:27

who uh without fail in so many of his his films like Don’t Mess with the Zohan

40:32

which is straight up you know just propaganda um even when it’s like trying

40:38

to be humorous they find a way to demonize and dehumanize

40:43

Palestinians and it’s it’s not funny it’s not oh my God I remember I accidentally I was in hospital at the

40:49

time and so the TV was on and I caught like the first few minutes I didn’t realize what it was it was Don’t Mess

40:55

with the Zohan I watched it I yeah I called the nurse I’m like I need more

41:02

painkillers um yeah did you watch f as well like no I refuse to it’s terrible

41:09

ref it’s terrible like they they portray the Israeli soldiers as like super heroes and the pales they can just go

41:15

into like Palestinian places and shoot and kill like tens of Palestinian arm

41:22

Fighters just like that and they’re like like superheroes you know the Israelis are superheroes the most human and the

41:29

Palestinians are just like dispensable you know yeah yeah it’s always always been the case I

41:35

mean right now is Marvel has uh a character the Sabra character a

41:42

superhero uh who was with the iof and the the superhero the saving that she

41:48

seems to be doing is like killing Palestinian babies I mean it’s so entrenched in in Hollywood and in how

41:57

Arabs or the Muslim world is generally you know envisioned and this is why it’s also so easy for say the Israeli State

42:05

and and Zionist to also to Pink wash for example and to say the things that they

42:12

say about you know people being thrown off buildings if they’re gay like completely reducing an entire people to

42:19

these racist and untrue tropes uh and also let’s imagine

42:27

hypothetically if that happened does it justify it does it justify the errer of entire people of

42:33

course not do does it justify the killing of thousands of children now because because some people are like

42:40

anti-gay does that give the there really the justification to that’s the thing

42:45

and this is what we we end up getting pulled into also these debates that

42:50

they’ve set the terms for so we find ourselves arguing about it but at the end of the day the one thing that

42:56

remains is doesn’t matter none of it justifies anything that you’re doing okay even if

43:02

Palestinians were quote unquote you know the most backwards or the most I mean you know and it it feels terrible to

43:07

even repeat these things but nothing justifies it and they will find whatever

43:12

they want and they will keep Shifting the goalpost and they will you say anything to justify what

43:20

they’re doing I mean there’s no there’s no there’s no debating you can’t rationalize with an adversary like

43:27

this you can’t so this is why it’s also really important I think in terms of

43:33

Hospital uh really like I don’t like to engage with it I like to make fun of it

43:39

and I like to um the thing is with Hospital tracker we are debunking it very methodically and basically tracking

43:46

how a narrative evolves we’re not actually giving it Ling any Credence in

43:52

any way and saying we’re going to debate this it’s like no here are the facts here’s some context it’s broken down and

43:59

it’s easily accessible to to anyone to everyone um and they don’t necessarily

44:05

have to go out and do all this research it’s centralized in one place uh but yeah like you said I mean there’s no

44:11

justification whatsoever but we end up having to we find ourselves indulging

44:18

them time and time again uh and we get caught up and it’s a destruction it’s

44:24

meaningless it’s meaningless that we are even trying to

44:31

like say to the world that children in Gaza it’s not excusable to ker in Gaza

44:38

we shouldn’t be saying that we don’t have we don’t have to say that we don’t have to say that but it’s not excusable to to M adults either you know this is

44:47

part of it as well where we and Men of course where we also in a way in in order to sort of appeal to

44:54

people’s uh good graces is in a way you know it’s kind of easy to be like don’t kill children like most people can uh

45:01

agree to that I mean some obviously don’t uh but also don’t kill adults and

45:08

you know there’s this thing with Gaza as well it’s like you know uh the current adults now in Gaza were yesterday’s

45:14

children who’ve suffered x y and Zed um but even that as side even if they didn’t suffer in this was happening I

45:22

mean we also can’t we need to be wary of sort of the rabbit holes that we kind of fall into there is the facts are really

45:31

simple the case for Palestine is really simple this is our right hey hatna this is our land from The River To The Sea we

45:38

want to live in a democratic equal Society you don’t like it I mean many of

45:44

the Israeli settlers have multiple passports you good luck to you go to France is is that a genocidal statement

45:52

when you say we want Palestine from The River To The Sea Ahmed W I’m just asking a

45:59

question no of course not and of course that’s what they’re trying to also twist it into I mean the idea that they are

46:06

projecting what they are currently doing onto US exactly because when I hear

46:11

Palestine from the river the sea it will be free I never had any what do you mean

46:17

what do you mean they say that this is genocidal statement and I really understand theal because

46:23

they me I genuinely want to understand the logic behind calling this a genocidal statement what is the

46:32

logic this this is a thing you can’t rationalize with these supremely

46:40

racist idiotic bigots who obfuscate everything

46:46

right I mean the reason they see it as genocidal is because they this is

46:51

exactly what they’re this is what they’re undertaking right now and what they’re continuing to and they’re worried their deepest fear is that

46:59

Palestinians are going to do the same thing but the Palestinian demands have been very clear no occupation no

47:07

apartheid right of return and we live together if you don’t like that I mean

47:12

like when apartheid ended in South Africa a lot of white South Africans you know left because they the idea of

47:19

equality was just to you know gross for them okay goodbye is is the idea of

47:25

equality so threaten yeah why is it so what is so wrong with

47:30

calling for equality of everyone between the river and the sea I wish I knew with

47:36

I wish I knew it’s a narcissism it’s you know the thinking that you’re entitled I mean

47:43

it’s entitlement sheer entitlement I mean the fact that the Israeli State just even when we talk about you know

47:50

their Ministries and their Hospital departments and um other things that they use for example is like look how

47:56

advanced we are are in like the fields of tech and science at the expense of

48:01

who right you you’ve taken land you’ve taken resources you get billions of

48:07

dollars in in quote unquote Aid you have everything there right of course you’re

48:13

going to be able to advance yourselves in the areas of like tech for example um so that’s also

48:21

another like ridiculous sort of line of like husp like look at how like Advanced and and if you didn’t invent El would

48:27

invent it you didn’t invent the same card somebody else like like K St Israel

48:32

made the desert to bloom what do you say that exactly what do I say to that yeah I won’t I probably won’t be allowed

48:40

to say [Laughter] it [Laughter]

48:48

yeah yeah it’s outrageous I remember in high school actually in my final year I

48:54

uh was doing just like multiple units of English and so we had to write a Nolla

49:00

and mine was about a young Palestinian boy in during the Lebanese Civil War

49:06

based off of stories that from my dad um living in a Palestinian refugee camp and

49:11

there were references to Palestine and I remember the teacher saying um there were no roads in Palestine like how can

49:17

you include that there were roads in Palestine firstly factually there were

49:23

roads there were roads in Palestine B I think she was a Christian evangelist but

49:29

even if there weren’t any roads what like why this is the thing you end up you end up in

49:35

this nonsensical like Loop to Loop you know you’re not we’re not arguing with

49:40

people who are making sense they’re just saying anything and seeing what sticks and this is the these are the

49:45

fundamental contad contradictions in uh hosp and Israeli propaganda on one hand

49:52

you know you have them claim that they’re indigenous to Palestine and on the other hand they are on the Forefront

49:59

of Western Civilization I mean all these things contradict each other uh and we

50:04

have to we have to sit here and unpick at it and be like well actually no they want us to do the runaround so how can

50:11

you be civilized if you are capable of killing thousands and thousands of women

50:16

men and children how can you call yourself civilized exactly like these people like I think

50:23

they have wrong idea about what civilization is they think civilization is is like having tall buildings and tick and whatever civilization should be

50:31

different it should be about respecting human lives not killing people for fun

50:37

exactly they’re not civilized for me like I don’t see them civilized at all

50:42

it’s not it’s not at all I mean and again it comes back to the sheer

50:50

dehumanization of Palestinians like from the get-go when the you know the early

50:56

zist Pioneers were architecting a plan to create a Jewish nation state the way that they spoke of you know people who

51:02

are native to the land uh I mean you’ll find this across all sort of settler colonies and all Empires that sort of

51:10

language but they believe that it’s civilized when it’s coming from the quote unquote West

51:18

when it’s coming from the Europeans it’s it’s Civ you can be doing the worst of the worst and it’ll seem

51:24

civilized it’s just I mean it’s like that Meme for example you know the Family Guy one with

51:30

the the color of your skin have you seen it no okay you might have to like show

51:36

on screen um you know when somebody commits sort of a a crime or you know there’s something you know uh an

51:43

incident right if you’re Brown if your color is you know A Certain Shade shade of brown or black it’s terrorism if

51:49

you’re white or pink or whatever you want to call it it’s mental health issues

51:54

so whiteness is always associated

52:01

with innocence and goodness and morality no matter what they do and they’ve

52:07

committed the worst of the worst sad reality so let’s go back to

52:15

the headlines that we talked about um and please let me know how you deun him but please briefly because we have many

52:21

lines here yeah yeah no worries okay we start with Al hospital was attacked by Palestinian Rockets not is isra forces

52:27

so what do you say to that so with this particular claim I mean it

52:33

was clearly an attempt by the Israeli state to buy some some sort of time for

52:41

themselves in a sense while they continued to carry out the slaughter in Gaza and it worked I mean media uh

52:48

outlets and news rooms all of a sudden were focused on investigating

52:54

uh who struck this hospital when the Israeli state had already bombed

53:00

multiple hospitals and was targeting an a hospital they’re also familiarizing the the audience about the concept of

53:07

targeting hospitals right so this time it was like we don’t know we’re not sure Hamas did this and then at the same time

53:14

when other hospital is bombed it will be like um easier for the public to absorb

53:21

you know yeah exactly it’s very clever like it’s it’s casting doubt and

53:26

unfortunately it works you know like you know friends and I say that very Loosely

53:31

at for example Novara media who are apparently the liberal such leftist independent uh organization in the UK uh

53:40

people who worked for them were also um questioning and towing this line by the

53:46

Israeli State and by the Israeli occupation forces hoping to cast doubt uh on whether it was the Israeli

53:53

state that had bombed this Hospital what do you mean what do you mean theyve

53:59

bombed multiple hospital they’ve bombed they’ve gotten rid of almost every hospital in

54:04

Gaza uh they were already hitting Al hospital and so it’s a destruction I

54:10

mean and of course it’s sort of like look at these evil you know Palestinian Fighters like uh they I mean the way

54:17

that this claim evolved as well I mean the way it was debunked forensic architecture did some work on it um and

54:24

so if you look at the claim on the website it breaks it down providing context providing the sub claims within

54:30

the claim uh as well as like the debunks and everything that’s sort of dubious so they’re lying about like it came from a

54:37

cemetery right but when you measure the the speed and the time it took and like

54:44

the angle it was at it didn’t come from the cemetery that they were saying so they were just improvising as they went

54:49

and saying anything but this is why the media is complicit they just run with it like

54:55

they’ve run with beheaded babies let’s talk more about the 4 beheaded babies how did you debunk

55:01

that man I mean basically I think the key to a lot

55:07

of debunking uh Israeli hospital is to track how the native changes and it

55:14

changes and it changes and it changes and it continues to evolve and they backtrack and then they add something

55:20

else they you know add other little tidbits you know like babies hung on clothes lines for example and so so as

55:27

you see that information sort of like come to light more information you know comes out so for

55:33

example um the Israeli Foreign Affairs Ministry ran like an ad on YouTube like

55:40

aimed at like young children it was a cartoon uh ad um about 40 murdered

55:46

babies uh the CNN for example uh Israel settler First Responders were the first

55:52

to actually spread this and they were giving interviews and so you see how evolves with US President Biden claiming

55:58

he saw the pictures but then comes the clarification from the White House Biden didn’t see the

56:04

pictures then from the damage has been done already right exactly exactly and then the CNN CNN retracted it but the

56:11

damage has been done that’s it it’s out there Hamas are baby murderers Palestinians are baby murderers and then

56:16

that hospital also ties into the General Hospital of how

56:22

Palestinians you know like Palestinians teach their children to hate and Palestinians use children as human

56:27

Shields so all these like threads are linked to each other because they’re

56:33

ultimately showing here like Palestinians don’t care about they’ve beheaded these babies and they were also

56:39

using the in particular this this idea of like the action of a beheaded baby as

56:46

well to draw that comparison to you know Das and Isis and so you saw Hamas he could like Isis the Palestinians that

56:53

chose Hamas they elected Hamas then Hamas the Palestinians are all Hamas then we

56:59

are all Isis then we all deserve to die that’s it and and if Palestinians elected Hamas

57:06

and and and and if like they will there there’s a a response to

57:14

everything everything but at the end of the day they’re just trying to move us further

57:20

and further away from dealing with what’s actually happening right will you

57:25

vote this person in or they call them Martyrs or they support

57:31

Hamas so we deserve to die oh what’s your point what is your point yeah and

57:36

the thing is it’s like also Hamas is using the Palestinians as a human Shields what do you say to

57:42

that there’s because every time every time I hear that someone is using someone as a human shield I would

57:48

imagine in my mind that a militant is holding a civilian and he’s putting gun to his

57:54

head this is the image they have which is what the iof does exactly often

58:00

literally right every accusation is a confession and this is something that

58:05

we’ve witnessed more so in the past eight months everything that they’ve said they

58:13

commit and this is why going back to you know why they think uh from the river to the sea is a genocidal chant it’s

58:20

because this is a confession this is them but this comes at a time where

58:26

Israeli officials are literally en chanting genocidal slogans right life on

58:32

air and the Western media doesn’t doesn’t talk about it because they say

58:37

they want to we want to new Gaza they say that we want another NBA second NBA

58:42

like the Israeli settlers are literally blocking the a from coming to Gaza they’re literally starving the

58:48

population they’re literally bombing the hospitals they’re literally killing thousands of people they’re literally

58:55

destroying the the houses they are doing genocide in reality and then they are

59:03

just to it and we just you know cheering it on yeah it’s

59:10

because these again these institutions have these material interests these governments right so it doesn’t matter

59:18

how genocidal they sound or what sort of whitewashing they do we’re at a point

59:24

where none of that matters uh and then you get like the hospital on the other end from like the US right the

59:31

propaganda where they’re trying to distract people or plate people and

59:38

be like we’re speaking to like Netanyahu and I mean it’s all a game it’s all a

59:43

performance another line here says Israeli soldier helps elderly man in

59:49

safe Corridor what’s the story behind that so there was a picture that was

59:55

shared uh on social media uh by the

1:00:00

Israeli State um with the Israel Arabic account on X formerly Twitter uh so it

1:00:07

was a bashid ha an elderly Palestinian man he had a walking stick and there’s a photo of an iof Soldier sort of speaking

1:00:15

to him and it seems like he’s helping him perhaps giving directions this bashid Hai was actually

1:00:22

murdered 5 days before that so his what we did was and again like with Hospital

1:00:29

tracker people volunteered to help research it’s a tremendously big project uh so we found um an interview

1:00:39

with the son with bash son on Al uh on the 9th of November talking about the

1:00:46

killing of his father um and this was when his parents were leaving through this quote unquote the so-called safe

1:00:52

Corridor where you know it should have been safe for Palestinians to move uh down south uh and then 5 days later the

1:01:00

Israel Arabic account was using this photo that was clearly taken before this man was killed and using it to show like

1:01:07

look how look how great uh our our soldiers are to the elderly um and they

1:01:13

had a comparison photo as well with like Hamas so they killed the man and then it

1:01:19

claim that they helped him to save corito mhm unbelievable unbel unb

1:01:26

believable Shameless yeah okay another line here another

1:01:31

headline here says Israeli State offered fuel to a Shea hospital and then it was

1:01:37

refused by Hamas what is this headline so the

1:01:43

Israeli defense minister and other Israeli officials like the Israeli

1:01:48

energy Minister uh and and Netanyahu kept coming out and saying

1:01:53

well we offered at shifer hospital which is obviously running low on power um

1:01:59

some fuel so they can run and basically that was the claim that we offered them

1:02:06

fuel but it was the hospital and the doctors that refused uh to take the the

1:02:11

fuel that is not true at all so the doctors have spoke out about it Hamas

1:02:18

also spoke out about it they said we didn’t refuse it we actually wanted the fuel even though it’s a tiny

1:02:24

insignificant amount we said okay uh but we want it through a uh an NGO

1:02:32

like the International Red Cross or any other organization on the ground there is no way that we’re going to send out

1:02:39

our doctors or our nurses and our staff to go get this fuel that they dumped

1:02:44

nearby um to bring it over when they’re shooting at anyone making any sort of

1:02:50

movement near ala Hospital uh so and this is has has

1:02:55

really been debunked actually in uh any of the western media Outlets it’s

1:03:01

there’s articles everywhere about how you know Hamas it turned out they later

1:03:06

change it to Hamas Hamas is the one that refused it on behalf of the hospital uh the refusing of the the fuel

1:03:14

but that’s not the case whatsoever and so we include of course again these

1:03:19

primary resources uh find a lot of the interviews that are in Arabic and translate them um to show

1:03:27

the full picture and to debunk another headline here says makeup used in Gaza to fake

1:03:34

injuries what is that so I just going to open this one as

1:03:40

if we need makeup to fake inj we have already enough over 100,000 injuries

1:03:45

yeah so the again this was shared by an Israeli model uh but we didn’t tend to

1:03:52

focus on that we included it as context uh it was the spokesperson to Arab media who then shared it so as an official uh

1:04:00

it’s a behind the scenes video uh of a Palestinian film in Lebanon and it was a

1:04:06

video about like Gazza and so you could see you know people know the people also

1:04:12

putting costumes on and the makeup for a short film and the claim here was that

1:04:18

uh plywood gets busted again and so we provide context as well about uh what

1:04:24

plywood means uh the history of plywood and how that again is just a a racist Trope to

1:04:31

suggest that Palestinians are fabricating um their injuries or you know it’s like

1:04:39

making up their atrocities uh it’s a way for the Israeli State once again

1:04:44

to deflect blame yeah so another another headline here that says Hamas were

1:04:51

carrying instructions on how to make chemical weapons mhm so they need so

1:04:56

they want to convince me that Hamas took these booklets yeah bind us around yeah

1:05:03

yeah they’re carrying binders around um clearly yeah this is the thing it’s like outlandish so the claim was that they

1:05:10

had booklets physical booklets on them um they had instructions on how to carry and they wanted to make these weapons

1:05:16

inside Israel when they entered when they entered into the yeah so during the

1:05:22

the operation or whatever that they were going to create God knows what some cide well I mean it’s ridiculous it’s

1:05:28

outlandish but then you saw the Israeli president Isaac Herzog holding up like the booklets but the way that the story

1:05:35

changed right it was we didn’t find a booklet we found a USB

1:05:40

stick it was just just even these like tiny little details continue to change

1:05:46

and then it turns out what president Isaac Herzog was showing as well in his interviews you know was like holding up

1:05:52

these these booklets uh and the claims that he made around the these chemical weapons weren’t actually in the

1:05:58

documents that they professed to have found so they’re showing documents from something else and so we found the

1:06:06

original documents and God knows I’m like I was like on some dark side of the internet looking for um this booklet but

1:06:14

I found it and I went through it and just to also confirm uh

1:06:20

that there was nothing in there about chemical weapons turns out to be like it was like a short B graphy of

1:06:27

uh some guy who did the tried to attack the World Trade towers in like the

1:06:33

1990s it was it’s just it was bizarre right but this stuff works the theatric

1:06:38

theatrics work they just say Isis alqa Das um spooky

1:06:45

Arabic you know on a booklet uh it’s it’s ridiculous another headline here and

1:06:52

this is the last one I promised you is estate denies killing mother and daughter seeking refuge in gaza’s Holy

1:07:00

Family Parish so this one uh you know it’s

1:07:06

particularly disgusting the so in uh December last year mother and daughter

1:07:13

nir and Samar Anon were seeking refuge in a Catholic Church in Gaza and had

1:07:19

left to go use the bathroom uh on the in the church’s area on the grounds and and

1:07:25

they were shot and killed by iof forces I mean they were like Witnesses and it’s clearly

1:07:32

obvious and initially the first thing the first claim that came out so there were multiple claims that were made this

1:07:38

is over the course of five or six days the Israeli ambassador to the holy sea

1:07:44

so the Vatican tweeted out saying yeah this mother and daughter were killed um

1:07:50

by the iow but they were misidentified as terrorists you know War happens it’s

1:07:56

War the it’s it’s a tragic mistake so he put that out there that’s that’s his story uh shortly after that

1:08:04

another Israeli official I mean said that uh the iof wasn’t there they’ve got

1:08:11

nothing to do with it they were not there they were not shooting at anyone then the next day the story

1:08:17

changes okay the iof the Israel soldiers were there uh but they were shooting at Hamas spotters actually know before that

1:08:25

they bled Hamas of course they were like it was Hamas Hamas killed them of course so they weren’t there and then it was

1:08:31

Hamas that killed them no no no let’s it see this is what they do the first part is they shot and

1:08:38

killed them it was a mistake then we weren’t there we didn’t kill them then it was Hamas and then it was like yeah

1:08:44

we were there and shooting but we’re shooting at Hamas spotters but it wasn’t us and we’ve independently investigated

1:08:51

ourselves and it doesn’t stuck up we didn’t shoot them don’t know what happened happened and then they returned

1:08:57

back to Hamas do you think they intentionally killed them yeah of course why do you think they would kill uh a

1:09:03

mother and a child why have why have they been killing anyone why have they killed over 40,000 Palestinians in Gaza

1:09:10

why have they shot and killed Palestinians across all of Palestine in

1:09:15

the West Bank I know why because they want to ethnically cleanse Gaza they

1:09:20

want everyone to leave Gaza of course and they mean to Target churches and Hospital and Christians in order to send

1:09:27

a message to the people in Gaza that no one is safe and everyone is in danger and everyone can and will die mhm they

1:09:35

came out they came out and said that we don’t we don’t Target uh like holy

1:09:41

places of worship I mean just flying through their teeth I

1:09:46

mean oh they said that yeah yeah but at the same time they were like U posting

1:09:52

footage and videos of how they bomb MOS yeah many many many

1:09:58

mosques they’re proud of it um yeah and still as of this because obviously a lot

1:10:03

of these claims evolve um they still as of today are denying that they killed

1:10:08

the mother and daughter because they don’t touch they don’t touch uh uh holy places of worship oh yeah yet they were

1:10:15

still shooting at the supposed Hamas spotters I mean make it make

1:10:21

sense you can’t okay let me ask you one more question

1:10:28

and I always ask the GU the same question about Zionism itself mhm what

1:10:36

does Zionism mean to you what it means to me yes because they say that Zionism

1:10:42

is a benign ideology that seeks to U help the Jewish have a

1:10:49

Homeland so when people hear about it it’s like yeah benign ideology nice they want to seek a Homeland for the Jewish

1:10:55

people but what does it mean to the Palestinians Zionism is a terroristic

1:11:04

expansionist settler Colonial ideology I mean it’s pure racism it’s pure uh

1:11:12

purely supremacist I mean this idea of creating an ethn religious

1:11:19

State on another people’s land and you know like something to think about as well is that when the early zionists

1:11:26

were sort of trying to determine where they wanted to create um a Jewish ethn State I mean they were considering

1:11:32

Palestine they were considering considering uh Western Australia Uganda

1:11:38

Argentina so I mean this state or this ideology would

1:11:45

have been and could have been superimposed anywhere in the world um so it’s it’s just that alone

1:11:54

shows that it it is a it’s a it’s a settler Colonial project I mean it’s not Zionism isn’t a benign ideology

1:12:03

whatsoever uh and yeah I sorry if I’m losing my train of

1:12:10

thought but it’s just like Zionism is just Zionism is racism Zionism is

1:12:17

Terrorism Zionism is is ethnic cleansing

1:12:25

and they also say that the Palestinians don’t have a say they don’t they were not a people in this land and they just

1:12:31

came from out of nowhere in order to oppose the the creation of this Jewish Jewish

1:12:38

state where we are people before Israel or we just what are we if we were not a people

1:12:44

what are we what were we ghosts clearly like I mean the thing

1:12:51

is it’s like we also cannot meaningfully or legitimately engage with

1:12:58

these sorts of arguments right like this is a a key part of it let them say let them say that Zionism is benign and

1:13:07

about a perfect little you know Utopia let them say it’s it’s Democratic

1:13:12

let them say Palestinians never existed the facts on the ground the reality is otherwise they are not living in reality

1:13:18

and we cannot have arguments or debates or dialogue or respond to people who are

1:13:24

not living in reality we need to focus on the Palestinian struggle for Liberation for

1:13:31

self-determination that should be set in our sides like no more engaging with their nonsense and when they do have

1:13:37

claims and they say x y and Zed this is what hospital tracker is for as well I think with the gross amount of

1:13:45

disinformation particularly about like even small incidents uh we want to like record that

1:13:52

and we want people to be able to to refer to that and for it to just be

1:13:58

there to exist right um otherwise like I

1:14:03

said earlier they’re removing things already and the story keeps changing and so we want to track how the story keeps

1:14:09

changing just to show that you’re not consistent whereas with Palestinians and

1:14:14

anti zionists our demands our case everything has been consistent it is so

1:14:21

consistent which is something that they don’t have one of the problems I find with the

1:14:27

Western media is often is not with what they include in

1:14:32

their coverage not with what they say in the reporting but rather of what they exclude from the coverage it’s what we

1:14:40

call the sins of omission why do you think the the Wern media is so interested in uh covering the

1:14:48

Palestinian struggle without a context to the bigger issue why don’t they zoom

1:14:53

out until the people the story behind all of that the root causes of this conflict they often start with yeah now

1:15:01

it all starts from the 7th of October as 7th of October is the instigator of all

1:15:06

of this conflict and and struggle and fighting they don’t talk about the root causes of the problem they don’t talk

1:15:13

about the nakba have you ever heard the word nakba in the western media no they don’t talk about the military occupation

1:15:20

58 years of military occupation the longest military occup ation in modern

1:15:26

history maybe didn’t talk about the The Siege in Gaza that was imposed for the past 17 years didn’t talk about the

1:15:33

settlements in the West Bank the the the daily killing of the Palestinians in the West Bank daily killing didn’t talk

1:15:40

about area area C and area B and area a didn’t didn’t talk about the the

1:15:45

Palestinians who are treated the second classes in in Israel didn’t talk about all of that they don’t talk about the

1:15:50

Israeli right wing that is rising and the genocidal statements that they say they only talk about Palestine when

1:15:57

there is a Bloodshed and most likely when there is Israeli Bloodshed not the Palestinian Bloodshed why do you think

1:16:03

the Western media is doing all of this Western media provides zero to no

1:16:11

context about the the Palestinian question or the Palestinian case because

1:16:17

as I mentioned I mean from witnessing sort of the ins and outs of newsrooms

1:16:22

they don’t want to have to deal with these well resourced and angry Zionist Lobby

1:16:28

groups that have that often petition to have you know

1:16:35

journalists removed or fired uh they they really hit back uh in

1:16:41

a in a harsh way and so many media outlets and news rooms have become you

1:16:47

know even if they don’t have this like conviction in the Israeli state for

1:16:52

example they don’t want to deal with a headache cuz can you imagine the headache and the smearing and the

1:16:57

attacks that comes with actually calling it for what it is I mean that’s that’s a

1:17:04

big part of it and that’s why I think it’s really important for anti-zionists as well uh to hit back these media

1:17:11

Outlets as well make it difficult for them um to be reporting uh Israeli propaganda without

1:17:21

any context without any you know contribution from Palestinians or any any but you

1:17:29

know with every passing day now we see that Israel is very desperate when it comes to um hiding its atrocities that

1:17:37

they commit in Gaza and that’s why first they prevented the international journalists from coming to Gaz and

1:17:42

Reporting the truth they have blocked the way no one is allowed to enter and at the same time they’re killing tens of

1:17:49

Palestinian journalists over 140 journalists were killed in Gaza during the this genocide

1:17:55

and we’re talking about the journalists we’re not talking about the citizen journalists who are like taking it upon

1:18:01

themselves to report the truth from their own side citizen journalists have doing amazing work in Gaza so yeah no

1:18:07

inter no International journalists are allowed to enter killing the journalists killing their families injuring many

1:18:14

many many of them but at the same time the Israeli hpar is now so pathetic

1:18:20

they’re so desperate to hide their crimes and they’re not I think they’re not succeeding

1:18:26

what what do you think are they succeeding is the Israeli husb winning nowadays I would say I mean in my in my

1:18:34

opinion it’s never really won I would say uh I think things have shifted now

1:18:41

because as you said journalists and citizen journalists and you know young Palestinians on the ground are are

1:18:46

openly sharing sort of the realities of what’s taking place in Gaza uh and are

1:18:52

filming you know these atrocities and it’s being broadcast to the entire world

1:18:57

and this is why you have the the US also wanting to to ban Tik Tok for example

1:19:04

because they believe that it’s like some Tik Tok algorithm that is making people um critical of theist

1:19:10

entity so yeah hospit I mean the Israeli state is getting desperate of course but

1:19:16

I don’t think it’s just because

1:19:22

of it’s the hospital is bad but I think like the Israeli state is getting desperate we have to look at the

1:19:27

material reality I think we have to talk about the Palestinian

1:19:33

resistance and how that has contributed to this like sheer desperation like they have

1:19:39

been holding out you know uh and really like fighting back over the past 7 eight

1:19:45

months um that’s where and they haven’t they’re not going anywhere right and so this is where that desperation also

1:19:52

comes from uh something has really fundamentally shifted I think in terms

1:20:00

of how a Palestinian resistance uh responds and fights

1:20:06

against the the ongoing genocide should Israel be taken

1:20:14

seriously that’s all should Israel be taken seriously no I mean the Israeli State

1:20:21

should we believe any of its lies no and we never I mean when I say we I mean the general World should never have bought

1:20:28

any of this of course not I mean the Israeli state is a a pathologically

1:20:33

lying entity it’s built on lies it’s everything about it is is a is a

1:20:42

fantasy it’s these mythologies of iing a liberal Democratic State uh how can you be a

1:20:50

democracy and be a Jewish ethn state with apartheid policies how do you have

1:20:56

how do how have you created bundle STS and there’s a military occupation and you can’t even walk down the road you know in the West

1:21:03

Bank without seeing God knows how many weasly 18-year-old iof soldiers like

1:21:10

it’s it’s a complete joke so no the no one should ever believe what the Israeli state has to say and clearly everything

1:21:16

that we’ve witnessed now and I say this to people who perhaps otherwise weren’t aware because if you’ve been aware then

1:21:22

like if you know you know uh but there’s no there’s no coming back from this and I think you know it’s also

1:21:30

really important to for some of my like Reflections on on

1:21:35

being in like news rooms as well and in the media is that a lot of editors and the quote unquote media

1:21:44

class take Zionist Lobby groups like very seriously it’s it’s really weird it’s

1:21:50

like how are you taking these people seriously I the best thing to do is laugh at them I mean laugh in their it’s

1:21:56

it’s so it’s so ridiculous words cannot even begin to describe right uh just again

1:22:06

the the endless contradictions um just the the substance

1:22:12

of like so many of these claims uh you have like Israeli officials just also yeah sharing like a behind the scenes

1:22:20

video being like plywood in Gaza you can’t take them seriously whatso ever and you never never should have this is

1:22:27

what has gotten us here right people taking them seriously no don’t take them seriously and there

1:22:33

you know I mean it’s very hard to also not take them seriously with their crappy like Tik Tok Dance

1:22:41

videos and their weird little like yoga um coordinated like choreographed videos

1:22:48

like to like quote unquote like free the hostages I mean everything about them is just so

1:22:55

cringe Janine thank you very very much for joining us it’s been a pleasure it’s been a pleasure too thank you

oooooo