Scott Ritter G. Lira-z eta abarrez, berriz

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hello and welcome to the Gaggle what we Challenge and if necessary destroy media narratives I’m George Sammy Whitley with

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me today of course is co-founder of the Gaggle Peter Lavelle and today we are very fortunate to be joined once again

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by Scott Ritter uh he’s of course a frequent guest on the Gaggle and we always

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um uh very flattered by uh his presence so a lot has happened uh Scott since um

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uh we last spoke we’ve had the uh counter-offensive uh Ukraine uh we also

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had the NATO Summit in Vilnius but you know neither seems to have um uh

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resulted any uh major advances um but before we get on to that I want

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to um address the latest controversy that um youth Scott have been involved

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in uh and that involves uh Gonzalo Lira who has appeared a number of times on

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the Gaggle and uh Scott you you presented a particular thesis about what

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you think happened to him what he’s doing you know who he really is and this is um uh brought you into conflict with

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with a number of uh you know members of the alternative media so perhaps we

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could just start off start with you um explaining what your take on uh Gonzalo

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what happened what’s going on now and um how this is going to uh panels

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my take on Gonzalo has been consistent since April of 2022 when he was taken

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into custody by the Ukrainian sbu um and released he was taken into

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custody because of um his online activity which was deemed to

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be openly hostile to the interests of Ukraine I think before we set up and

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people go well it’s just posting on in March of 2021 Ukraine formed

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something called the center for countering disinformation and in March of 2022 uh with the funding

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and guidance of the United States the center Center for countering disinformation uh classified the kind of

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activity that Gonzalo Lira was and got engaged and what we’re engaged in right now as information terrorism and that

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the people who do our information terrorists now this isn’t just rhetoric they said that information terrorists

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must be treated as terrorists are treated and remember they’re using this term in conjunction with um you know the

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support provided by the United States who actively seeks out and kills terrorists preemptively without any due

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process so let’s I have to have to calm down because I get a very Marine Corps

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sometimes and I uh my language gets salty so I I need to uh okay okay

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for higher authority yes that’s a much higher authority but I’ll just say it’s time for people to grow up and and I and

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I mean this with all due respect to everybody I support anybody who wants to engage in civil debate discussion and

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dialogue whatever prior to April 2022 I supported Gonzalo Lira it’s not my cup

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of tea but I was on I I did two things with him um you know it is what it is uh but

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World War I I want people to understand that Peter you know this George I hope you know this you know people die this

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is an information War but it’s not just about sitting around and sending Mean Tweets people die there is a hit list

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the words hit list I’m on it okay the center for countering disinformation it

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was a major terrorist attack in Moscow today yeah in the Moscow area today

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the the center for countering disinformation uh puts out weekly daily

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weekly bulletins on who the number one threat the number one threat to Ukraine

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in terms of information Warfare is I’ve been topping that list consistently for

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a long time I take this seriously this ain’t a game um and I just get a little frustrated

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sometimes when people just treat this as though we’re just we’re just out here having a conversation guys it’s a

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debating Club there’s there are life and death consequences to this what’s going

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on this is directly related to not only what’s going on the ground you know in terms of war in Ukraine but around the

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world in terms of geopolitics and we can even take it to another level we’re sitting here discussing issues

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that relate to for instance an American strategic objective of defeating Russia

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strategically that means destroying Russia Russia said should America come

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close to that or should NATO come close that we’re going to kill the entire world by firing off our nuclear weapons

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because that’s why they exist to protect us from an existential threat and yet

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Ukraine is saying we need all the support in the world so that we can retake Crimea retake zaparesia we take

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care so on retake the dombas which means we want to trigger thermonuclear war this is what we’re talking about people

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this is about life and death for the world so now let’s understand that we’re

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at War it’s not just a shooting War it’s an information War but the information war is dead serious so when you have

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somebody like Gonzalo Lira who is out there interfacing with everybody I mean

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he was literally everywhere um which is okay I’m not I’m not jealous

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I like I like that I like the idea of people out there talking but then he gets arrested for that activity released

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five days later and starts straight up doing the same thing

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in the world that I used to live in which was the real world where we’d have spy versus spy and from I’ve done

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information Warfare operations in my life I’ve run human assets I’ve done all this in my prior life and a red flag

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went up and said why is this happening how is this happening

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um and I made the decision at times and people it’s not that I’m doing this right now people are waking up to the

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fact that but I said straight up he’s an sbu asset he’s been turned and I called him I said that to his face

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and he went silent for a while though first he came out and attacked me but that’s okay so you said this and just

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started to interrupt you said this in April 2022 when he was first arrested then released then you said it right

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away that he’s an sbu asset I said we have to treat him as an sbu asset and he

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reached out to me several times saying why are you calling me an sbu asset I said explain to me the circumstances of

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your arrest explain to me why you’re able to go back and do what you did and uh and we have a discussion about it but

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until which time you know and he said I mean let’s just he was released under house arrest that means he’s released

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under conditions of being controlled by the sbu he just his computers and phones taken

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away he gets one back under house arrest he gets a computer back under house

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arrest he starts up his YouTube channel and under house arrest he continues to

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interface with people he’s an sbu asset

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um not that you need to be reassured but the events were unfolding that was

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exactly people around me some of them former Former Intelligence uh operatives said

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exactly the same thing that you know you can’t really you Peter having contact

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with him you do it your own Peril that’s what I was told paraphrase yeah you know in

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Indigo comes down to um people said well so what I mean I you know people who I

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I have respect for I respect the Durant there’s no there’s not animosity here

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between me and the Durant um I respect them but they’re you know their thing was so what what so what

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what is what is Gonzalo going to say if it’s not I mean it’s attention getters with attention getters okay that that’s

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how I kind of look at it right it was a flag to wave to get notoriety without

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substance that that’s how I looked at that exchange no no I understand but but it’s but it’s not harmless

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it’s not a harmless exchange that’s what people need to understand this right now is not a harmless exchange okay what

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we’re doing right now is we’re having a discussion where you’re learning a lot about me you’re learning a lot about my beliefs

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you’re you’re getting a psychological profile of who I am and what I am all

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right now I don’t care but my point is there are people out there who do care who sit there and say how can’t what

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what makes Scott Ritter tick what what makes you know how can we tweak him how can we push this button push that button

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Etc ukrainians are doing this the CI is it now CIA knows me very well they know how

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to make me do things everybody knows I’m an open book you just saw you can get me

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spun up very easily so yeah I’m too easy I’m too predictable but my point is

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when you’re when you’re engaged in information Warfare there are literally rooms of people who are mapping out the

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connectivity diagrams of all the players that are in there and they’re building profiles on each one now some of these

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profiles will be used to create a an AI generated Alias cover story and then

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they’re going to hire somebody and they’re going to bring them in and that person is going to spend a couple weeks

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assuming the character and then they’re gonna get an account and they’re going to start coming in and they’re going to

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start infiltrating themselves and they know how to do because they’ve watched everybody do it they’re going to come in they’re going to build trust build

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communities and then they’re going to do things they lead conversations they insert misinformation and in the whole

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process of bringing the edifice down that’s what’s happening they’re directing it the community that

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this project is directed at is actually quite finite okay it’s not a huge number

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of people a pretty small Cadre at the end of the day yeah and you know and one

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of the things I pointed out I wrote an article um about this and in there I’m straight up I

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say they’re using the gchq Playbook uh which has been around for many years

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um and one of the key aspects one of the events they do is to come in there and create tension that creates an internal

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Dynamic a fight that fractures it apart I said they succeeded

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okay they succeeded there’s a fraction now between me and them but this is okay

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because I’m calling it out I’m saying this is what it is guys this is reality

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wake up grow up and change what you’re doing so that at least you’re aware of

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this Dynamic you know people say well Scott you shouldn’t just be you shouldn’t be saying anything I mean that’s like blaming me for your

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cancer diagnosis because I say you’ve got cancer oh oh my God by buying by

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being silent you let the the the this Gambit succeed it’s not just a simple

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War by remaining silent I’m actually facilitating an enemy and I know we’re

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supposed to be journalists I’m not I mean I I tried I play the role of journalists on sometimes and all that

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pretty good you’re pretty good you’re supposed to be objective I try to be but look there is right and wrong there is

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good and evil and in this issue Russia is on the right side of History ukrainians are evil Nazi supporting

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Banderas scum that are getting worse every day and they’re supported by Western governments who are openly

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backing it when you have former congressmen on their Twitter profile proudly say slavo kainini when you have

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former heads of NATO slab of Ukrainian when you have the speaker of the house over and over and over again this there

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is no room for objectivity here right absolutely yeah how are they playing

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Gonzalez so he he comes out from this prison and then he’s sort of holding

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these uh roundtables and uh and then what essentially through these round

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tables you Ukrainian intelligence was gathering information about all the participants in these round tables is

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was that the objective or was it just to create a Persona and then he whacks you

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you know Gonzalez abuses accuses Scott Ritter of CIA or something

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against other Lira accusing me is is irrelevant I don’t think the spu would

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go through any uh any rigor you people do that for free okay so it’s not like

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they’re gonna gain anything I mean Gonzalo Lira do something that people do for free no

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again as I pointed out in the um in in the art and in the article uh and when

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you take a look at the uh the bchq manual for online human intelligence collection I think it’s called Uh steady

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Dimensions basically how to you know pers uh the Dynamics of the behavioral

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psychology of group dynamics all right it’s a real thing done in the intelligence business all the time in

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order to do that you have to have data points you have to collect data now you can do it indirectly meaning just

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passively monitoring but the best way to do it is to be in charge of the experiment not to observe the experiment

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but to be in charge of the experiment and to be in charge the experiment means you know when to stimulate you know how

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to stimulate you have a cause you look for the effect and all that kind of stuff Gonzalo Lira was running in my

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opinion through his round table because you have to understand the round table is a controlled event it’s being

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controlled by the sbu if my premise is correct and there isn’t an intelligence

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of professional in the world not a single one go to the SSB right now find your online

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experts and tell me you’ll find one of them says Scott’s wrong on this one no I’m not go to the gchq and find someone

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they won’t say Scott’s wrong on this one not a single person who is involved in online human intelligence Collective you

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will say I’m wrong they’ll say the red flag is up and we have to treat the red flag as real so the round table the

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Gonzalo Lira was orchestrating was a petri dish about a collection to fill

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out the databases of Behavioral psychological profiles of the universe

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of people who are engaged in activities Ukrainian government deems to be terrorism that’s what was going on there it’s not

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about him calling me a name or calling this this is we’re we’re this isn’t you

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know a sketch this is amazing when I say calling you now I didn’t quite you know

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I mean it didn’t express it so well it’s more like you know once he wins everybody’s trust and then he comes

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along and uh you know say hey well I have it on good authority then so and so at whom everybody at trusted is really

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working for you know the the FSB or something like that in other words and there’s something wow Gonzalo Lira has

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really done the number on so and so that’s what I meant if you I mean what I

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would say is this um that’s so crude and I’m not picking on you I’m saying that why go through the

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effort to blow your asset they the key the reason why you build up

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these psychological profiles the behavioral profiles is that Gonzalo Lira isn’t going to be one

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saying it he’s going to first of all his job is to facilitate the collection of data then

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what happens is by injecting aliases into this they create sub discussions

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subcultures and Gonzalo lira is not going to have he’s not going to get his hands dirty on this one he’s going to

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sit there and continue you know but somebody else is going to inject the idea then somebody else is going to elevate the idea then somebody else is

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going to Echo the idea and it’s that the destruction is going to happen without any fingers being pointed to Gonzalo

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Lira that’s how a professional runs online uh human intelligence events you

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don’t blow your Source because if Gonzalo lira is the one calling it out and then he fails to say it backfires

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because that’s always a chance now the round table loses its luster people may

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not not want to come on it no you want to keep the collection going and the whole purpose of the collection isn’t to

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make Gonzalo the central play player in terms of the event you have other people

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do it the people that you’re recruiting and that’s what people don’t understand this community we operate in has been

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infiltrated largely because of the actions of Gonzalo Lira and the round table effective aliases have been put in

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place there are people out there injecting thought right now you can just I can go on my Twitter feed I could go

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on the responses to the sub stack and I will tell you right now any of the people who are putting comments in there

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are working for hostile intelligence services and the comments they’re

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putting in there are written based upon the information collected and the petri dish of data collection that was the

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round table that’s how it works this is why it has to be called out people need to understand what’s going on it’s not

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about me disliking Gonzalo Lira I do actually just like you I’m going to be straight up and honest about it he makes

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me very uncomfortable as a human being in the story I’m not one of these speakers I have the same exactly the

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same impression I mean I didn’t really figure it out the way you have but I had the same feeling in my one you know two

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interactions you know so there’s something about this guy that I don’t I don’t I don’t get I don’t like

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um so but Peter I mean I don’t know whether you want to talk about but uh he kind of directly approached you and uh

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yeah so I don’t know you know I mean you you can talk about it you don’t want to talk about that I’m very vague about it but I mean he was looking for a

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possibility to resettle in Russia he was looking for employment and

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um I told him and this was after he was uh uh put on house arrest which I’ve never understood and how I could be

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communicating with him under house arrest I didn’t understand that and all I I just said I said just keep your head

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down and maybe just go silent and and you know wait for the next move in this

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conflict and and then reassess where where you are but um I had a very kind

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of hands off he said I mean I I just didn’t understand how these people are not

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um the Civil Libertarians okay and so the fact that he was trying to uh

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um make a strong connection with me made me feel uncomfortable I mean um the way I kind of look that him it

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was just a crisis tourist and you know not really someone uh of a lot of depth I mean he was very descriptive which can

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always be very helpful I mean being on the crown but um you know making approaches to me and trying to see if he

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could get into uh RT or something like that and I you know just kind of Let It Fade Away because of the same

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conversation that we’re having right now I had it many times with joy even a few days ago um you know like this story doesn’t make

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any sense that’s what George and I were saying because RT ran this story and the I just didn’t understand the sequence of

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events it didn’t make any sense and so yeah I mean what you say makes perfect

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sense to me but I George and I intuitively understood this is this is something that’s not right here okay and

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we didn’t go forward with it no and I look it’s a tough story uh I I

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have to be honest um I had many people tell me just leave it alone leave it alone don’t talk about it don’t

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but you know I I this is where the puritanical Marine in me comes in if if

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something’s there and it’s wrong and I’m aware of it I gotta you know I can’t and it matters the other thing is I actually

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did sit back and say does this matter and that and so what I did is I I started the research for this article to

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dig in deeper and the more I researched I went oh yeah this this really matters this is this has to be put out there now

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what people choose to do with it it’s their business but at least I feel that

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I have done my duty to put something out there about how I feel about this from a

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professional standpoint and how people choose to to react is um is up to them

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but no one can ever say from now on that uh well there’s no way I could have known about that uh you know or you know

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I would never have known or suspected this there it is guys in black and white he’s an sbu asset straight up now people

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say why why did he get rearrested and everything you know I start with just April 2022. he was

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arrested released continued the activity that’s all I really need to know everything that happened after that is

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just drama it’s drama much of it’s suspicious much of it’s about I mean it

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doesn’t make any sense half of it but what people don’t understand is when you’re arrested and flipped

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uh in the west that’s something we call a police confidential informant happens

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every day okay you want to take down the drug cartel go find the drug dealer flip

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them then what do you have the drug dealer go out there and stop selling drugs no he’s got to continue to sell

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drugs he has to keep it going you want them to sell drugs hell excuse me heck you want them to become the best drug

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dealer ever so that he rises up cartel that’s what happens but there’s conditions for instance all the money

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you make while you’re selling drugs bring back to the cops we’re in control of this operation you’re not in control

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we control your life one of the things that came out about gonzola is that he had you know a hundred plus thousand

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dollars in the PayPal account um he was monetizing his YouTube I don’t

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object anybody monetizing anything please do it make as much money as you can make millions of dollars I’m happy

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for you but if you’re a sbu controlled asset and you’re told that by monetizing

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which is good cover by the way except it’s not because we can get into the why is he able to monetize an

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account from cartag Ukraine uh that is heavily critical of everything that gets

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everybody else demonetized out in the real world hmm that’s one of those things that make you wonder what’s going

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on but they think it’s good cover so he’s doing it but he wasn’t authorized to do it he

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got called out on it he came up with a story about beating up and torturing prison who knows if it’s true who knows not I don’t care my point is that people

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say why would he be rearrested and my my answer is police confidential informants

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are rearrested all the time because they break the agreement and I think there’s

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just plenty of circumstantial evidence out there that shows that Gonzalo Lira

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um probably violated the terms of his some of his parole and got picked up again it got released he violated his

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terms of parole again and he got picked up again who knows what’s going on with him right now but the idea that the SP

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would never arrest a uh controlled asset wrong answer cops arrest controlled or

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you’re controlled informants all the time

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is of course in order to build credibility I mean you know there’s a great well hey he can’t possibly be an

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asset he’s just been arrested I mean we’ve seen in The Sopranos I mean they

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did this all the time then he’d be a wrestler wow I knew The Sopranos but I

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knew it I knew it yeah so so that’s it you you build you

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build the credibility and I so that would make sense but what about this most recent uh

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uh you know he an attempt to escape and attempt to enter Hungary do you have anything I’m sorry and I’m sorry George

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to Telegraph it before right the event which

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look again now we’re getting into um remember who Gonzalo Lair is first of

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all I mean he’s a man who’s who who used to write fiction

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um you know adventure stories things of that nature he’s a lifestyle coach uh who the whole thing is about creating

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personas creating drama dealing with things one can imagine that that’s what was

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going on here um you know he he’s he’s creating drama Etc

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um what I you know I always hate when people do this but I’m gonna do it anyways because

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we’re having a conversation um you know I hate people who go I know something you don’t know but I can’t

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tell you yeah but Peter you just the reason I’m bringing up because you just did something George turned to you and

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said you have an experience and you said okay I’ll talk about it but you don’t want to get into it too much and you taught you gave the experience

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of your interaction with Gonzalo there what I can say is this within the span of 48 hours I’ve had

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a significant number of people contact me with experiences

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and the experiences you’re backed up by um screenshots of chat exchanges

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um and there’s I’m just going to say that you

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know this the case of uh Gonzalo Lear going to the Border isn’t on the lake there’s two feet underneath it are doing

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this and you know this has nothing to do with

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what he was saying okay there was just a lot of stuff going on there and if you look at it you could

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come up with for instance again I don’t want to talk about what people told me in confidence let’s talk about what what

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happened why the beep would Gonzalo Lira want to

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work for RT he doesn’t want to work for RT he wants

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to create controversy he wants to create problems he wants to collect intelligence he wants to do this you put

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feelers out to find its stimulus contact you get you involved find out how things

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work collect information now you can say it’s innocent if it’s done just for you

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you can say well he innocently was trying but at the same time that he’s telling you hey I only want to work for

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you I only want to do this but he’s doing it to 15 other people this is blanket collection taking

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advantage of a at a moment time where a profile exists now is this

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him doing it on his own or is this directed collection activity and I would

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say that because of his past of what I believe is absolute confirmation that he was a controlled sbu asset I would say

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that um when he’s reaching out to a half dozen or more

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people of similar profiles similar profiles asking them for things that

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could get them in trouble or could get other people in trouble

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um to me and then another red flag goes up I wouldn’t trust this man as far as I

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could throw him well because I had similar suspicions I made it I I made it

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very clear to people um at RT that if this person uh approaches you and uses my name ignore

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it yeah don’t do it don’t don’t pay attention yeah yeah I I look

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as a human being let me let me put it this way he built his own house

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and what I mean by that is whatever circumstances he found himself in in April 2022

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uh they weren’t it wasn’t through innocent passage he built that

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house he built it and now he has to pay the price for it for for what he’s done

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um if he was arrested confronted with very difficult uh options

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like or kill you uh if you don’t do X he he made a decision

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um am I sympathetic for the man that he was put

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in that situation to an extent but he put himself in that situation he’s not innocent people need to remember he is

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not an innocent actor in any of this he got himself to you’re in Cardiff

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in Wartime in the city that gave birth to the azov uh Battalion uh in a city

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that’s controlled by Banderas and you’re going to actively promote anti-ukrainian

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government thematics you created that problem don’t tell me I’m tired of people saying freedom of

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speech there is no free speech in Chronicles in Wartime stop playing games okay and that’s what

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Gonzalez was doing either he was playing the game or he was already doing some other game going on there who knows but

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he built he built the house he now has to live in it do I want Gonzalo Lira released without

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harm yes I want no physical harm to come to Gonzalo Lira I want him to be able to

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reunite with his wife who I believe is an innocent player in all of this and I want him to be a father to his children

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I want that to happen but what I won’t do is whitewash any of this it has to be

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called out for all that it is um and again is it possible

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that when all said and done because our leader come down and he can document that all of this was innocent

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that it was just a big misunderstanding is it possible sure anything’s possible

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well I apologize not on your life because my job right now is not this is

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not a court of law we’re at War I want to bring people back to this we’re at

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War and when a red flag exists you have to act on the red flag and nobody could

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tell me that it’s unreasonable to say that a red flag exists when you are cut released and continue to do the same

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activity how do you explain the fact that somebody like Larry Johnson who has an

30:31

intelligence background just as you how how come he disagrees with you so much can you can you explain that

30:37

no Larry has to explain that because uh I look I like Larry uh I I said some

30:42

things last night I’ll say it again it makes no sense it’s disingenuous what he said what I don’t understand about Larry

30:47

is because of his intelligence background why did he put up such a blatantly false false you know

30:54

disingenuous misleading argument because what he said in response to what I’m talking about at any time in our

31:00

conversation have I insinuated the CIA sought to recruit Gonzalo Lira an American citizen did I ever say that

31:07

I never even hinted at that I talked about the spu flipping a prisoner that’s what I talked about but Larry’s whole

31:14

thing was the CIA would never recruit this guy it’s a paperwork nightmare no

31:19

no I can’t believe Sky Ritter thinks this hey Larry again I have to be careful actually

31:25

because I I don’t want to I like Larry Johnson I don’t want to

31:31

um but this is so disingenuous that it

31:36

could raise the the notion that maybe he doesn’t know anything about human intelligence collection then maybe all

31:42

he was was an analyst and that he has only indirect knowledge of human intelligence collection because

31:50

if he actually was a human intelligence collector or somebody involved in that he would know what I know that the CIA

31:59

doesn’t and many times doesn’t do the Dirty Work that what the CIA will do or

32:05

MI6 will do is have a friendly service slip the asset and manage the asset no

32:12

paperwork on our side we don’t we’re not responsible you they flip it they manage

32:18

and then you sit back and you gather the intelligence you put in the inputs you

32:23

indirectly participate that’s how it’s done Larry knows that and Larry knows

32:30

that that’s what I’m talking about Larry knows that I’m talking about the sbu flipping up what is the equivalent of a

32:37

police controlled informant I’m not talking about the CIA recruiting an

32:42

American citizen which they can’t do it’s illegal but Larry brought it up anyways and made

32:48

that the Cornerstone of his argument and one has to ask why why would he do that

32:54

if he is what he claims to be and I have no reason to doubt it why would he do that and I have a reason why and I’ll

33:01

challenge Larry with it because you fell into the Gonzalo lyric trap

33:06

because you became hypnotized with Gonzalo Lira because you are on one too many round tables with Gonzalo Lira and

33:13

you’re not willing to accept the reality that you were played

33:19

real men step up to the plate and say I was played

33:32

yeah but I mean there was no value added it was only affirmational always wanting

33:38

to agree which was kind of boring okay because I’m a walk a policy wonk I want

33:44

to understand what’s going on I don’t need I don’t really need all the extra color I mean it doesn’t hurt but I mean

33:50

it doesn’t it doesn’t go very far it doesn’t move the dial okay so

33:57

um I that’s why George and I weren’t hypnotized you and I both each time just kind of scratched our heads that was kind of weird

34:04

that’s a valuable experiment now imagine I’m gchq and I want to learn more about

34:09

Peter LaBelle and George spoolie how do I do this put my my boy on there Gonzalo

34:15

and have him interact with you do things and then watch your response and I’m

34:20

learning about you so even though free you it wasn’t a valuable experience for for the his controllers it was an

34:28

invaluable experience because they’re building a psychological profile a causal effect profile that in the human

34:35

intelligence business is actually very important to have I I wonder after the

34:40

thousands and thousands of broadcast hours I have what kind of profile they’ve made of me they just probably

34:47

think I’m a lunatic nonetheless it was interesting that he was very very determined to uh to talk to you uh and I

34:54

think in one of uh when we had one him on the Gaggle he just went on kept

35:00

talking to you until I had to leave and I said I can’t stay but you know you can carry on talking so I thought it was

35:06

very interesting remember the first time he didn’t want to use any uh video he just wanted audio

35:12

remember yeah the other thing the other thing you have to repeat again Larry Johnson knows

35:20

this Ray McGovern knows this um in the intelligence business

35:26

passive collection isn’t good I mean

35:32

you you need to be in control of the process that’s why Intelligence Officers often

35:39

fail because the best in my experience the best human intelligence collection takes place right now what you and I are

35:45

doing straight up being honest having an honest conversation no pretense nothing uh you’re going to open up more I’m

35:52

going to open more we’re going to learn a lot the worst collection is when I compromise you I

35:59

have something over you and now you are beholden to me as in what you’re doing

36:04

it poisons everything but the way intelligence Services work is they have

36:11

to have the second because they have to be in control they have to be in control of you they have to control everything

36:17

about you before they trust the product comes out even though many times the

36:23

product that comes out will be an inferior product than it would be if we went through this honest open uncontrolled relationship and so you

36:31

know Peter you said you know they’ve watched thousands of hours of being I’m sure George they’ve done the same thing with you but those are uncontrolled

36:38

hours it’s so valuable to have somebody like Gonzalo Lira on the inside who’s

36:44

stimulating because now they can run an experiment he can ask a question remember it’s a question written by a

36:49

Handler he asked the question and now they get the stimulus how does Peter respond how does George respond now this

36:55

is information they can trust they can use it’s their experiment that’s why it’s so important that’s why I get

37:01

frustrated when people say well it’s happening anyways these these conversations are happening anyways but

37:06

they’re not controlled conversations and in the intelligence World passive collection is not the desired method of

37:13

collection you must be in control and again Mary Johnson knows this he knows this he knows this yet he refuses to

37:19

accept because he got sucked in that’s that’s my personal assessment you

37:26

know one of the things I discussed with George after our second encounter with him is that um I find it really quite curious is

37:33

that he um he must I said something like he must not interact with people that know a lot

37:39

of detail about the conflict because it was always very general things very and it was kind of frustrating because it’s

37:45

not very interesting okay you you’re saying things that we all obviously all know and it’s done in such a general way

37:53

and it was lacked 100 Locked analysis which that’s what I’m interested is

37:59

analysis and and I like to be challenged George and I fight like cats and dogs sometimes get the truth out somehow and

38:06

that’s the only way it happens but this though that experience was extremely passive and it was very uninteresting

38:13

and it was a waste of time yes yeah yeah that’s right and the whole thing to be honest the whole story seemed very

38:19

strange because he just sort of sprang up out of nowhere you know I I never heard of him just before he you know

38:25

April 20. we had no reason to ever hear from him right and now suddenly he’s doing this round table and all these

38:31

people coming on onto his round table and everything you think whoa how did that happen I mean everyone else you

38:37

know there’s a track record you know people know I mean I’ve known about you Scott you know for decades uh and anyone

38:43

else but suddenly he boom he just sprang up out of nowhere and he suddenly the the go-to person on Ukraine so right

38:49

away that that may make you think this is something very strange about all of this again I I you know

38:56

you can we can say that a lot we can say that a lot what my

39:02

I’m tired of my English is poultry we can say that about a lot of people uh in

39:08

the alternative um the alternative medium they’re they’re

39:15

when this war came up people that never heard of suddenly emerge and enter in and they

39:22

they through this Echo chamber of bouncing back supporting each other that’s what is we must support each

39:29

other and it’s bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce boom and suddenly there’s somebody up here everybody’s

39:34

going you have to listen to so-and-so’s analysis I’m like but who who is he why

39:39

am I listening to him you have to and then you listen and you’re going

39:45

but there’s nothing original in this analysis it’s it’s been echoed of God

39:52

it’s very interesting and something something that uh I would hear from uh lira

39:58

which you know it doesn’t add any analytical value but he’s a cokehead I

40:03

was always very personal and you know Hunter Biden’s a cokehead I guess okay

40:09

but you know that doesn’t mean I think you know I should somehow separate that from the greater picture of his illegal

40:16

financial behavior but you know it was always kind of kind of like the uh you

40:22

you probably remember the inquiry I’m a Coke National Inquirer okay it was like okay but I mean why are we talking about

40:29

it no I yeah I agree I look this I give you an example um and Peter

40:39

you and I and George we we did this too do you remember my great winter my game-changing moment that’s right

40:46

yeah yeah okay and you remember the controversy that that’s rolled up around that all right

40:52

all I did is behave like a professional all I did is sit back and examine the

41:01

data set and look at changes that are taking place and then draw logical conclusions based upon it so I looked at

41:09

a data set that had Uh Russian objectives um changed dramatically

41:16

but no additional resources were applied to those objectives to to achieve those objectives

41:22

um so you begin to say there might be a deficit of resources available and then

41:27

you see tremendous resources pouring in on the other side and you say this is a

41:34

game-changing situation and so you call it out as you do in the intelligence

41:40

business we do that all the time you sit there and you write a report hell you know excuse me in my language

41:46

um you know who else does that financial analyst my wife works for a company and they have a team of analysts who monitor

41:54

stock Mark now imagine one day that you’re sitting there saying I think uh buying cans of Diet Coke is a good thing

42:02

it’s a good thing and Scott Ritter who’s the most massive consumer of Diet Coke in the world besides to have a health

42:09

pick and he stops drinking diet coke and the you know and suddenly you realize people aren’t buying as much and they

42:15

say hmm you might want to smoke down on the diet coke purchase it’s not a good deal anymore

42:21

people according to what happened oh my God you changed your mind you were

42:27

selling Diet Coke but now you’re saying it’s bad you suck the worst you’re a

42:32

sellout oh you’re a good analyst um I did that but what I noticed is

42:38

how quickly people not that they were The Usual Suspects the instant experts who have no original

42:46

analytical capability I I didn’t care about them because they’re they’re

42:51

dilettos they really don’t know what they’re talking about that’s their profession is to be a professional dilettante okay so so I’m gonna go to a

42:58

break and then we’re gonna have Laura Trump to talk about the Palestine issue it’s just so you know they were jumping

43:05

on you know I could care what got me though was the number of professional

43:11

analysts professional analysts people who with the track record uh who were like

43:16

you flip-flopped you chain I’m like what the hell’s your problem even people who wrote the presidential Daily Briefing

43:24

meaning that they know that they’re professional they know the business we’re like oh you changed it’s unexplanted what do you mean it’s

43:30

unexplained I just walked you through the data points problem grows

43:36

resources dedicated the problem remain the same while on the other side the resources

43:42

dedicated to the problem expand that is a game-changing thing it doesn’t mean that Russia is going to lose what it

43:49

means is that the game has changed right but the problem is that people too often

43:56

um want to hear something and they they want to hear something and they want to repeat it again and again even though

44:02

the facts don’t bear it out and when you don’t tell them what they want to hear then they attack you I mean yeah

44:09

George and George that has been the greatest added value of our podcast

44:15

because you I will push against you you push against me reading the data points

44:22

and trying to understand what they mean and sometimes it gets testy I mean George is a great friend of mine but

44:27

he’s a great friend of mine because he pushes back again because other people say oh okay I don’t

44:33

want to get Peter angry because they want to invite me on his program and all that see that that’s that’s a disaster but what’s workbook what else is going

44:41

on here though and we just talked about it see we’re having an honest discussion here and I’m not going to get upset for

44:47

instance if George came out and said well Scott I thought about it but you know what about this what about that what about this

44:53

your assessments we cheer I think and I’d be like wow uh I’m going to defend

44:58

my assessment but man there’s some push back here I’m not if I’m not able to immediately fire back with two barrels

45:04

then he’s got a point because if he’s hitting me with something and I’m going maybe I hadn’t thought this through

45:09

maybe I need to hit pause maybe I need to go back reconsider regroup that’s what makes this valuable and the fact

45:15

that we’re doing live makes it valuable for anybody watching because they get to see the process in place

45:20

um but you know with this incident now we’re coming back to the alt media world because it’s composed about 98 instant

45:29

experts shake and bake experts okay and how do they get up there the whole thing

45:34

is about followers the whole thing is about influencing the whole thing and so they grab onto an idea they all latch on

45:41

to it and then they Echo it up a ladder echo echo until they get to the top and

45:46

everybody’s falling and say boom but now if you come in with original analysis that is deviates from that you’re

45:53

screwing up the plan see I’m instead of me coming up with an original analysis I’m supposed to sit there and echo echo

45:59

echo echo promote promote promote like spam life get those viewerships up get

46:04

those numbers BS my job isn’t to do any of that my job is to look at the situation on the

46:11

ground and look at the data and say what’s where do I take it guess what

46:16

it’s going to change every time I do it and then very interesting it’s very interesting what I’ve noticed is that um

46:22

I don’t watch any cable TV anymore when they let Tucker go I decided to boycott fox come and I have completely I haven’t

46:28

watched anything since and but one one of the observations I’ve had is that

46:34

there’s a lot of alternative out there and some some of it is good some I have to say some of it’s good but not on this

46:40

topic not on the topic of Ukraine and what I’m finding George maybe you you’ve had the same experience is it there’s

46:46

that there’s this um tendency to everyone to turn into a pretzel I mean they’ll recognize the flaws of uh of the

46:55

uh Obama administration of the Trump Administration particularly of the Biden Administration but they still try to

47:01

keep bending it to but it’s still the bad Russians here and it comes out in a

47:06

very weird way because you know because there’s still that real fear of of of

47:12

being called a puppet you know or a collaborator in all of that and it it

47:18

makes their reporting very warm let me give you an example um this program breaking points with Sagar and Jetty and

47:25

uh crystal ball on domestic politics I watched them I live far away I don’t

47:31

have Tucker anymore or very very rarely and so I I need to get a kind of an idea of what’s going on okay but when they

47:37

hit Ukraine I just think I’m gonna skip it because the last 15 times they did it was just awful and I don’t need to waste

47:44

my time okay but they do draw upon what they think is alternative but they’re

47:49

still very establishment people okay yeah and they’re they’re they’re trying they’re trying to segue I think you know

47:56

the the one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is that I found it very interesting over the

48:02

last couple of weeks um blanken and by Russia’s lost Russia’s losing okay and

48:08

but you know do we take on board the binary well that means Ukraine’s winning

48:14

okay no they’re not saying that okay there’s been a very interesting segue it’s been kind of slow and then people

48:20

start picking up on it and reacting to it and it gets more and more illogical

48:26

okay and so even these people in the what the uh what they call I call it uh

48:32

uh alternative media light okay Young Turks okay they try to be you know

48:38

alternative but they’re just an echo chamber for the left and and a lot of you know what you hear like on breaking

48:43

points is still an echo chamber of a combination of the left and right okay so the you end up getting people that

48:51

pick up on some things that we say gets filtered into their Echo chamber and

48:56

it’s like well I’m not data point you’re right but it doesn’t mean what you think it means yeah no two things on this one just to

49:05

come back to again why because I I’ve been trying to figure out why people do what they do

49:10

especially people that I have respect for and I’m trying to figure out what their motivation is because as an

49:17

analyst your motivation should be pure purely analytical it should be about finding the the most honest uh accurate

49:26

Pathway to as close to the truth as you can get that’s what it’s about let everything

49:32

else be damned now that works if you’re on the payroll of an organization that

49:39

one step I am blessed that I worked for a uh a company and I’ll call them out

49:44

because there could come energy intelligence group um and they pay me to do that kind of analysis is it is it contentious

49:53

ask my editors I mean it means you’re doing a good job okay

49:59

the product is good and it gets to a good audience but the most important thing is is it gives me a foundation an

50:07

economic Foundation of stability um so I have the ability to be pure in

50:13

my analytical approach now anything addition to that like you know YouTube monetization or sub stack

50:21

subscriptions that that’s that’s frosting on the cake

50:27

I already have a delicious cake that stuff is frosting that means I get to have butter milkers or chocolate

50:33

fatter whatever sprinkles but my point is I don’t give a damn about YouTube we

50:41

just got demonetized we just started getting monetized and yet I mean a guy

50:46

called me my friend Jeff Norman calls up he goes guess what say what he goes we got a check from YouTube I said why I

50:53

didn’t ask for it he says he comes it’s there it sort of automatically did it he got over certain thresholds but I went

50:59

holy crap I called my wife hey baby we have more money coming in she’s good our daughter’s getting married we need the

51:04

money bring it in um and then he called up he said we’re not getting the money anymore and I’m

51:09

like why well we don’t know why but to me it was like okay but I’m not

51:15

gonna change anything I’m gonna I’m doing to get monitored but the people out there there are people out there who

51:22

have built an economic model that requires the echo chamber but that that’s what’s so interesting is that

51:28

nobody ever really accepts what you just said that they have a financial stake in

51:35

saying what they’re saying so when they say well you know so-and-so says this yeah but he’s got a YouTube channel and

51:41

he makes a lot of money and the people who go to into this his YouTube channel they want to hear something that’s what

51:47

they want to hear yeah one of the things this conflict is

51:53

um become aware of and it’s kind of some uh a pet peeve I

52:00

have it’s called responsible statecraft um you know but I mean I think you both

52:06

agree with me and I I you know there are people over there that are good people nice people top-notch people yep

52:12

top-notch but this conflict and this is comes into my mind every single day why

52:18

are smart people saying such stupid things I I come up that thought crosses

52:24

my mind every single day because some of these people I know they know better I know they do well again I have an answer

52:30

for you I have an answer for you yep Ready for the answer

52:35

and I’ll call her out Kelly vallejos used to be an editor at um an American conservative yep and uh anti-war.com

52:42

okay and she brought me into American conservative and we had a a multi-year

52:48

relationship that was fantastic in fact the last year that I wrote there an article I wrote on the straight horror

52:54

movies crisis between United States and Iran was the number one article for American conservative that year and

53:00

three of my other articles were in the top uh 10 or something like that so our relationship was a successful

53:06

relationship and then it had to be terminated because they brought in new leadership the new you know ethic and I

53:12

knew this and I knew that and just out of the blue I mean literally one week she calls me says congratulations number

53:18

one article you’re awesome we’re going to talk about raising the rate on your articles and next week you probably said

53:23

you’re fired you’re done we’re dumping you but she felt bad about it so when she moved to responsible statecraft he

53:30

said I’d like to bring you in so the the first article I wrote was about Russia

53:36

uh they took it they published it online the funders of responsible statecraft

53:43

the people who pay their salary because if this is where I learned

53:48

again I would use a bad word the hell with spot responsible repair there’s nothing responsible about them a dance

53:55

to the tune played by their pain Masters they pulled the article they did they

54:01

fired me and Kelly had nothing no response she didn’t know what to say she was like oh oh well Welcome to the Real

54:06

World Kelly there’s no journalistic Integrity in America anymore it’s all controlled by the money and that’s why

54:13

and it applies to Alternative media sources as well anybody who has

54:19

monetized themselves is dependent upon a behavioral Model come back to what we

54:25

were talking about here a behavioral model that it can be tweaked to get

54:31

Clicks in the clicks generate money so so people like well this guy speaks out against this all the time and he’s

54:37

successful he’s successful because they want him to be successful is it successful because there’s no original

54:43

thinking coming out of him I think sometimes there’s the Jimmy door is a very interesting exception okay because

54:50

he does get the clicks and the monetization I suppose because he does say things that people like okay and you

54:57

know in my experience with Jimmy dorb it was on with him twice uh he knows his limits I mean he was on with RFK Jr he

55:04

said no you better talk to Matt’s blue but it’s all okay again that’s not my wheelhouse I mean I I think there’s

55:10

exceptions out there but going back to responsible statecraft but Jimmy but Jimmy’s a very good comedian and he

55:16

makes it see Jimmy Has Talent there’s original product coming from Jimmy all three of

55:22

us are conservatives okay everybody knows that and Jimmy Dore is a wacko

55:29

Progressive and I would sit down and have a beer with him okay because on the issues that matter to me and where

55:36

there’s that the intersection I it’s great okay but going back to a responsible statecraft and this is

55:41

something George has pointed out I think it’s very important is that as critical as they might be

55:47

um and and trying to be critical as any critique uh George pointed out to me a

55:52

few months ago I said but the Biden Administration has done all the right things the Biden Administration is on the right path

55:58

you know you have to follow the the way they use language for instance if they ever say anything critical about the

56:05

United States they say the United States does something wrong if they want to praise uh the Biden Administration then

56:12

it becomes the Biden Administration but they never say anything negative about the Biden Administration they’re saying

56:17

negative about the the United States but never negative uh about uh Biden there’s

56:22

money George sorosis and uh Coke is of uh of funder

56:28

um so again always very negative about Russia they never say anything negative about China you read all their articles

56:34

not one negative thing about China you know they write a lot about China it’s always oh we’re being really mean to the

56:40

Chinese you know but you can never be mean enough uh George

56:46

um I I pointed this out to you is that I went and looked at some of the authors that weren’t right for a responsible

56:52

staycraft and I looked at their um rhetoric um about the invasion of Iraq in 2003

56:58

and it we you never come unprovoked Savage

57:04

um aggressive never they never use that language but when they use it to Russia that’s the only kind of like but they

57:10

have to I mean it’s almost kind of what I call the comma excuse you know the comma and then you know um uh savagely

57:17

done so so you know it is that they have to always add this extra color as if they’re covering their ass which I guess

57:24

they are okay they are yeah but again you know

57:29

the reason why I brought this up is that you know why are smart people saying stupid things and that’s what really is

57:35

so painful to me because some of these people have written about like the caucuses and and Southwest and all that

57:41

which I thought was really really good and inspired me and then I see this and I just and they don’t want to make they

57:48

will never make any kind of public comment about it because I I think working for a responsible statecraft is

57:54

kind of like being a Bloomberg journalist and for those don’t know wilmberg pays the best they pay well

58:01

very well for journals okay all right and I think this is the kind of the online quote-unquote analytics remember

58:07

when Kenny vlajos because Scott brought a name I remember when um Seymour hush

58:13

wrote that these um expose they about what happened to uh Nordstrom

58:19

um you know uh responsible statecraft didn’t do anything day after day after day maybe more days yeah exactly nothing

58:27

no mention and then Kenny vlajos writes an article hey why aren’t the mainstream media writing about Seymour hush how

58:33

come they haven’t addressed this anymore well you haven’t addressed it you haven’t said anything about it and she doesn’t say anything about whether you

58:40

know it’s credible or not credible right media I’m not touching this whoa why is that and George also when Lindsey Graham

58:47

was booed off the stage there were many reasons Lindsey Graham but I mean no that was

58:55

the reason that’s right I mean I just you I don’t know which one of us said it

59:00

to each other instantly it’s like this is this is nuts get back to something that you said Also

59:08

earlier Peter um about uh the the rhetoric coming out you know

59:13

Russia’s losing Russia’s losing I mean it’s so counterfactual that it’s it’s

59:18

absurd but I I think if if anything this article

59:24

that I wrote in this this debate they were having if anything makes us succeed

59:30

it’s the notion of Behavioral psychology and how important it is in terms of information Warfare and uh shifting

59:38

perceptions and shifting ideas we know Russia’s not losing we know that

59:44

NATO is losing that the United States is losing that Ukraine is losing we know

59:49

that there was a Jetta conference where they were going to get together and discuss potential peace plans now do

59:56

winners discuss negotiated peace settlements or do losers discuss negotiated peace settlements so how do

1:00:03

you begin to frame the fact that you’re setting up for a negotiated settlement how do you explain the fact that

1:00:09

pressure is being put on zelinsky to uh alter the 10 you know Solid Rock Solid

1:00:16

conditions a piece so that none of those 10 are in play um you it’s psychology you see we’re not

1:00:23

negotiating from a position of weakness because Russia’s losing see how do you explain to the American

1:00:29

people that we’re actually pushing for a peaceful settlement it can’t be because the counter offensive is billed because

1:00:34

the Vilnius Summit was a disaster because uh we ran out of ammunition

1:00:39

We’ve ran out of Tanks we’ve run out of everything we got nothing left um we’re bankrupt France is failing

1:00:46

Africa is going to suck France down the Cesspool of life um can’t talk about anything Russia’s

1:00:52

losing it’s just a simple statement put out there echoed echoed echoed by the

1:00:59

Echo chamber that exists in mainstream media Russia is losing Russia’s losing Russia and next thing you know

1:01:04

there’s a peace negotiation that was negotiated because Russia lost whatever you got everything they wanted

1:01:10

did they did they get everything they wanted didn’t Russia want it I mean did you hear this they wanted Kiev they

1:01:18

wanted Keith I I got I had I already have the solution is that um

1:01:23

um when the settlement comes they’ll say well at least they didn’t make it to Paris we won we won we kept them out of

1:01:29

Berlin we kept them out of Warsaw we drew a line well also with erosion you know his his um uh Warhol 15 minutes of

1:01:38

fame pogration is going to save Russia from Putin and now Victoria Newell and

1:01:43

his lament don’t let Wagner come to Niger don’t let him in don’t let him in themselves into pretzels

1:01:51

I mean I I Gotta Give pregosian a medal I mean I don’t I can’t say I don’t like this I don’t

1:01:56

know the guy I think what he did in June 23rd 24th despicable treasonous um

1:02:02

Etc but apparently a political decision has been made in Russia that uh That Forgives that crime in the interest of

1:02:09

the greater good um fine now he’s in Africa or at least his organizations in Africa and holy cow

1:02:17

are they raising High hell and you know it’s just again it’s an interesting

1:02:22

Observer just sitting back it’s like

1:02:28

hold my beer it’s something you have to make science it’s just entertaining I mean it’s like

1:02:34

what the hell is going on now I’m laughing about it but I shouldn’t because the consequences of a conflict

1:02:40

denied your uh will be horrible I mean we’re talking there will be tens of

1:02:45

thousands of dead potentially hundreds of thousands of dead there will be millions of displaced this could trigger starvation you talk about a migrant wave

1:02:53

that could sweep in and flood Europe This Could trigger Mass migration that Europe can’t absorb this could lead to

1:03:00

you know this this has the potential for Global disaster written all over it but

1:03:05

the U.S policy in Niger is kind of interesting they’ve distanced themselves now from France I mean Newland went

1:03:11

there talked to them I mean right hey these are terrible people they illegally seized power you know the Constitution

1:03:18

has been violated and so on and yet Newland went there uh talked to them and said whatever you do don’t let in the

1:03:25

Russians you know you know and and so they they talk to this guy who’s this General who’s U.S trade he’s a good

1:03:32

friend of ours and the U.S still hasn’t characterized it as a coup it’s not a coup uh because they’re not they’re not

1:03:39

prepared to let Niger go so it’s over the U.S anger whatever you do just don’t let in uh but George the the analog to

1:03:47

that is don’t let the Russians in but do whatever you want with the French yeah yeah exactly

1:03:53

the Americans have been wanting the French Out of Africa for decades you know they’ve been seeking to push them

1:03:59

out yeah yeah and the interesting thing the car’s effect I mean the the escalation ladder that seems to be uh

1:04:06

one of these terms that’s very popular nowadays uh but the escalation ladder in terms of consequences of of of French

1:04:13

failure in Niger I mean it’s huge um because the The Economic Consequences

1:04:19

uh to France um the the uranium alone the uranium issue alone but just not only that but

1:04:26

the whole financial relationship France has with Africa that’s falling apart this would literally be the end of the

1:04:32

French economy the French economy so heavily invested into the the

1:04:38

post-colonial relationship it has in Africa that if this collapses France won’t recover and if France fails Europe

1:04:46

fails and if Europe fails NATO fails I mean I don’t understand the American position here to be so hands off because

1:04:53

they need to understand that bad things are about to happen God is so simple

1:04:58

just don’t let the Russians don’t let the Russians that’s the depth of their analysis

1:05:05

you shouldn’t be surprised we shouldn’t be surprised by that okay do you want me to join me is lack of analytical depth

1:05:12

okay you want me to drive you ready we’re gonna drive oh we’re going to drive the the the the

1:05:19

Biden Administration crazy just one second

1:05:38

okay now you right now all the FBI this Behavioral Science guys

1:05:45

that’s the perks of negative Fame I suppose

1:05:51

no but I’m just saying it’s amazing it’s the same thing we’ve had this I used a bad word I apologize for that um but the

1:05:58

um you know we’ve had this conversation too about why can’t we have a responsible discussion about Russia

1:06:05

at all and the answer is Putin not Putin the person putting the concept

1:06:10

putting the word because no no one on the on the on the side of

1:06:16

you know being critical of Russia I’m all in favor of critical discussion and

1:06:22

I do believe that there could be a responsible dialogue about

1:06:28

geopolitical activity in the world where somebody could speak critically of Russia that

1:06:36

Russia is not immune to criticism and people could come up for instance I’ll be frank Russia’s relationship with

1:06:42

Wagner is very it’s a weird relationship

1:06:47

it proved to be quite unhealthy okay also it was not I mean if if according

1:06:54

to the Russians of this uh Wagner is responsible for the death of Russian pilots and right you know he you know he

1:07:02

just won him around Petersburg and so on yeah I don’t I don’t understand it but and so I believe we should be able to

1:07:10

have a critical discussion about this um and all that but then the problem comes in the second you try to do that

1:07:16

let’s say that somebody was articulating in favor of Wagner the response will be potent

1:07:24

yeah this is something that George and I have been talking about from the very

1:07:30

beginning and I do on my program is that the the um the inconsistent the asymmetry of

1:07:38

what of the conversation is it Russia is seeking and demanding security

1:07:45

and the West is on some kind of crusade a moral Crusade and that’s why

1:07:51

they don’t work together that’s why there cannot be any kind of dialogue um you know I don’t want to sound trite

1:07:57

but on December 17th months before the conflict started the Russians said this is what we want okay and it’s there I

1:08:05

mean and gentlemen after everything that’s happened since then all that this god-awful conflict those are still the

1:08:11

things the Russians want changed haven’t changed at all and you know and while we consider and say that

1:08:18

Wagner is a is a kerfuffle you know it’s like what

1:08:24

is it well it’s working it didn’t work in in Russia I mean that was a bad thing but in

1:08:31

Africa you shouldn’t have these private military organizations should not be in the Home Country okay I agree but the

1:08:38

model the model in Africa is a very successful model yep I mean

1:08:44

and that’s why I’m saying you know Ferguson it’s the I have screwed up everybody’s analytical model about you

1:08:51

know life in general award I’m gonna give him the medal that says I think with everything you did in Russia but

1:08:58

I’m lucky to do in Africa going wow the greatest compliment that has ever been paid to grossian and the Wagner group

1:09:04

was Victoria newland’s visit to Nigeria it’s the greatest recruitment ad anybody

1:09:10

could ever do if I were Wagner right now I’d say open up all the recruiting centers and put a poster out that says

1:09:16

Victoria Newlin doesn’t want you to join everybody’s gonna say hi Jordan baby and

1:09:21

sign me up let’s go such a hated figure and you have to wonder

1:09:26

who’s writing this stuff for the Americans but that’s the thing I mean when uh remember when the the kufa took

1:09:33

place in Niger there was a United Nations security Council um statement to which which was

1:09:39

unanimous so Russia joined this U.N security Council statement the Constitutional order must be restored

1:09:44

and then Ragnar brigosian comes along and said yeah I’m in favor of the coup I I support the coast right away he

1:09:51

already distance himself from official Uh Russian foreign policy and uh and now

1:09:57

he’s still I mean you know he’s presumably already in uh Niger ready for

1:10:02

maybe an invasion may not be an invasion but they’re you know getting ready for it I I love the fact that when I say I

1:10:09

love the fact again I loved it as an observer not as a not a anything but there’s Vladimir Putin President of

1:10:16

Russia holding a Russian African Summit and it is the epitome of class of

1:10:22

diplomacy of respect for sovereignty and all this stuff and it’s all genuine none

1:10:27

of it I’m not I’m not saying no but then behind the scenes there’s progression in genes having a shadow conference hey how

1:10:32

you doing yeah we got a couple thousand boys that are unemployed right now here’s my cards here’s my card you know

1:10:39

we can fly into turkey they can get on the chartered here please be in your country no time flat you know and and Africans are going yeah take some of

1:10:47

that yeah so sadly you know it goes back

1:10:52

to September 2015 right after uh Putin’s uh appearance at the general assembly of

1:10:58

the United Nations you know announcing that they’re um syrians The Sovereign countries requested military assistance

1:11:04

and and the uh uh George you probably correct me uh six weeks and 25 planes

1:11:11

and then Isis is gone okay I mean the the Russians went in they did their job

1:11:16

um and they did it with not much fun Fanfare actually um Donald Trump took credit for it it’s

1:11:21

okay with me like I I the result is what I wanted okay the Black Flag no longer threatening Damascus but they it you

1:11:30

know when you get out of the Anglo um uh Echo chamber is that people say they

1:11:35

were pretty effective there okay well that’s the problem that the United States yeah the United States have been

1:11:41

fighting this war on terror in Niger and in Mali and volcano with no success I

1:11:47

mean they’ve been there for years for success I mean so Wagner goes in and actually gets the job done and that’s

1:11:52

what matters it’s a war crime in Wagner does it yeah

1:11:59

anyway I mean unfortunately guys I gotta I gotta remember we get a lot of your time Scott thank

1:12:07

you very very much exactly thank you so much Scott thank you for giving us your time and we look forward to our next

1:12:12

meeting so uh remember if you like the Gaggle please like share and subscribe

1:12:18

see you soon bye