From the River to the Sea: Ibaitik Itsasora (195) eta Alfred de Zayas

Ibaitik Itsasora

Russia is not Enemy@RussiaIsntEnemy

“Einstein said, “I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” This statement reflects the understanding that a third world war could mean the end of civilization. Today, this realization should restrain us from taking extremely dangerous actions in the international arena that threaten our modern civilization.” – President Putin

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Bird@TheBirdJo

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Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1994177590337441921

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Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1994239832558911933

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Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1994359815330533702

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Going Underground@GUnderground_TV

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1994358799835021360

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Alfred de Zayas@Alfreddezayas

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Alfred de Zayas@Alfreddezayas

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Alfred de Zayas@Alfreddezayas

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November 27, 2025

Democracy, Law & Global Crises | Alfred-Maurice de Zayas on Rights & World Order – Ep 85

(https://dezayasalfred.wordpress.com/2025/11/27/democracy-law-global-crises-alfred-maurice-de-zayas-on-rights-world-order-ep-85/)

in this far-reaching episode of Kianistan, Alfred-Maurice de Zayas — Cuban-born American lawyer, writer, UN Independent Expert (2012–2018), and one of the most respected voices in human rights and international law — joins us for a deep and candid conversation on democracy, global politics, and the future of world order.

From the strengths of Switzerland’s semi-direct democracy to his reflections on education systems, religious coexistence, and multicultural living, Alfred offers a unique perspective shaped by a lifetime across Cuba, the United States, and Europe.

We dive into his critiques of international law, the failures of global governance, and the challenges within the United Nations, where he spent decades advocating for human dignity. Alfred also shares insights on major geopolitical crises including the Ukraine–Russia conflict, NATO’s role, and stalled peace efforts in the Middle East.

This conversation connects history, law, culture, and geopolitics — a must-listen for anyone seeking clarity in an increasingly chaotic world.

Topics Discussed:

• Alfred’s multicultural background & life in Switzerland

• Strengths of Swiss semi-direct democracy

• Education differences: U.S. vs. Switzerland

• Religious coexistence & philosophical perspectives

• International law, U.S. influence & global recognition

• Human rights advocacy & UN shortcomings

• Cuban heritage & personal family history

• Germany’s historical guilt & its societal effects

• Ukraine–Russia conflict & NATO’s strategic role

• Middle East peace failures & global organizations

• Critique of the Nobel Peace Prize system

• Media bias, truth decay & social media manipulation

About Alfred-Maurice de Zayas: Alfred-Maurice de Zayas is a Cuban-born American lawyer, scholar, author, and former UN Independent Expert on the Promotion of a Democratic and Equitable International Order. With dozens of influential books and decades of advocacy, he is one of the leading voices on human rights, international law, and global justice.

Transkripzioa:

0:00

Hello and welcome everyone to today’s episode of the Kanistan podcast. Um joining us today I’m very pleased to um

0:06

say that we have Alfred Desires. Um Alfred is a um Cuban US American slash

0:15

um Swiss um lawyer historian and an expert on human rights. Um Alfred, thank

0:21

you so much for joining us. Thank you for inviting me. Pleasure. Thank you Alfred. Alfred, it’s the first

0:27

time um we’ve had a pleasure um to have you on our show. Would you tell us a little bit about your background? Maybe

0:33

can you start with how do you selfidentify? Are you do you think of yourself as a Cuban American? Um or does

0:41

it depend on the the context? Well, I am Swiss and I have lived in

0:47

Switzerland for 44 years. Oh, wow. I uh vote in every single

0:54

referendum and I feel that our semi-

0:59

direct democracy is probably the best system of government that you can have

1:04

and we are a multicultural multi-ethnic uh country with 26 canton

1:12

four languages and everybody respects everybody else. it function. And I wish

1:18

that we would have that worldwide. Yeah. That people would understand that the other guy, your neighbor, uh, is not a

1:26

priority, a potential enemy. I mean, your neighbor is a potential

1:33

collaborator, a potential friend with someone you can build something. Be

1:40

constructed, not confrontational. Whereas my education in Chicago, I grew

1:46

up in Chicago uh was very competitive. I mean, you are

1:52

always competing against the other god and you want to show that you are

1:57

better. And we are also educated in the United States and that part of the problem. We’re educated that we are by

2:05

definition the good guy which means that the other guys are the bad guy. It’s

2:12

black and white are uh in a

2:17

endless fight against everybody else and instead

2:25

of in a multilateral world multipolar where we can have international

2:32

solidarity and international assistance etc. And um part of the problem is I’m a

2:39

practicing Catholic. But uh I practice a sermon on the mount.

2:46

I practice Matthew 56 and 7. Uh I don’t practice uh the book of Joshua. I don’t

2:54

practice Deuteronomy. I don’t practice Leviticus. I find that uh the approach

3:00

of the Old Testament is that uh God created all humans but then he only

3:07

selected this little group. I mean the idea of the chosen people the idea of

3:13

the elect uh besides being absurd uh it’s very

3:18

dangerous because it is it bears in it uh an aggression against everybody else.

3:24

So that worries me in the religious sense. And when you read the sermon on

3:30

the mount, you see that the name of the game uh is coexistence

3:37

and concern for the other guy and not just

3:46

concern for yourself, not just me, me and again me. So in the west in

3:53

particular in the United States you have one megalomaniac after another because

3:59

if you think uh of uh the Donald Trump

4:05

you think the approach that he has to international law as a matter of fact he

4:10

doesn’t recognize international law. uh I always say to my student and you know

4:17

I’ve been uh professor of international law uh and of constitutional law in many

4:24

universities for many years besides my career 25 years as a senior lawyer with

4:30

the United Nations and six years as an independent expert of the human right

4:36

council etc. Uh my career has been

4:42

primarily an academic career and I’ve written as you know 12 books. I’ve

4:47

written probably something like 500 um scholarly articles. I’ve written 40

4:53

articles for encyclopedia. It’s not the Wikipedia. I’m talking about serious encyclopedia.

4:59

Uh I’ve written for the encyclopedia of public international law. I’ve written you know for the lexican of

5:04

international law for the encyclopedia of human rights etc. etc. ultra universally fresh etc. But what I tell

5:11

my students and how do you how do you what’s your

5:17

connection with Cuba? Uh well obviously

5:23

my mother was Spanish from Atori from Oedo. My dad was Cuban and the rest of

5:29

the family the family uh which has been there for uh uh over a century in uh in

5:37

Cuba. Uh they came primarily from Barcelona. So we’re partly Catalan and

5:43

partly uh Assurian. And as the case may be, I grew up as uh a young privileged

5:51

boy in Havana. And when uh the uh

5:56

revolution took place, not that we were against the revolution, but the revolution brings with it revolution.

6:03

Yeah. Oh, you close the schools. There’s some, you know, Yeah. It’s not safe.

6:10

Uh especially, you know, not safe for a child. So um my uncle who uh was an

6:18

American and and my uncle migrated from Spain f United States became an American

6:24

citizen was a captain in the US army then became a uh very successful

6:29

businessman was married to an Irish girl and they had no kids. So uh he took my

6:35

brother and me. So we grew up uh in Chicago. I love Chicago by the way. I mean I

6:42

wasn’t the St. John Fischer Parish, not far away from the parish of uh Pope Leo uh the

6:50

14th. I mean, it was just almost down the block uh from me, except that I’m older and Leo uh as the case may be. I

6:59

have great memories of Chicago and of the way that I was uh incorporated into

7:05

this wonderful Irish family. I I love the action. as the case may be. Uh

7:12

I went back to Chicago as professor uh in 199394

7:17

and I’ve been back since and I was member of the international human right institute there and uh I have good

7:25

friends uh in Chicago. I don’t like New York. I practice law in New York although my practice in New York was not

7:32

unpleasant. I was uh in the law firm of who became secretary of state Cyrus

7:39

Vans. I was in the law firm Simpson factor and Barklet on Wall Street. Now we’re no longer on Wall Street. We are

7:45

Micktown. Huge law and very professional, very

7:51

good. I can recommend it. We got good lawyer in there. Except that I ended up

7:56

doing financing of public utilities uh the S1’s and the S7 for the securities and exchange commission. That is deadly

8:02

boring. Really? It is very technical, meticulous. I mean, you make a mistake,

8:09

the consequences are millions. So, um again, I said, “Do you want to do

8:14

this for the rest of your life?” Even if I had a great salary, answered no. So I

8:19

got a full break went to Germany finished my uh doctorate in history because I had um also in my BA my

8:28

bachelor’s was in uh philosophy and history wanted to teach history which is

8:35

my passion not law uh history uh major

8:40

you start that’s a lawyer make money anybody can uh can use a lawyer whereas

8:47

uh a historian can be as if you’re lucky to teach high school but uh otherwise

8:53

going back uh to my career I was seven years in Germany uh in the 1970s and 80s

9:00

and then I came to the United Nations and I was I came to the United Nations I

9:05

was hired personally by the great professor director of the human right

9:12

office uh Poen that was we were a small office huh we

9:18

for 51 people. So, but it was genuine. The center for human rights was genuine. We meant it. We were

9:26

professional. We were committed. Whereas today, it’s an industry. That’s why I

9:31

wrote my book, The Human Rights Industry because we are paper pushers and the

9:37

office has been thoroughly penetrated. uh I would say 80% of the secretariat is

9:43

ideologically in the service of Washington and or

9:50

Brussels or both. We are in the service of the collective west and we don’t

9:56

actually have much left over uh for Latin America, Africa and Asia.

10:03

some major reforms have to occur. In my book uh the building a just world order

10:12

I formulated 25 principles of international order and if those

10:18

principles were shall we say disseminated

10:23

became you know second nature uh we wouldn’t have them that we have today

10:30

and I don’t only go around belly aching and giving you uh a dark and sad

10:40

diagnosis. I do the extra mile. I formulate

10:48

concrete implementable pragmatic uh recommendations. Are they uh

10:55

enforced? Are they implemented? Of course not. because uh you know our

11:02

world has been thoroughly hijacked. I mean our world is born is

11:08

Machavelian there’s not a single statesman

11:14

in the United States in United Kingdom in France in uh in Germany.

11:21

Yes. Uh my hope, my hope for humanity, for the survival of this wonderful

11:28

planet is the global south. My hope is those progressive countries in Latin

11:35

America, in Africa and uh in Asia who believe in the United Nations charter.

11:43

As I say, we have a charter. This is our world constitution and the international

11:49

court of justice is the world constitutional court. Now the international court of justice comes out

11:56

with three advisory opinion on Palestine.

12:02

Yeah. Has any of it ever been implemented? No.

12:07

Because the United States put in the veto. United States has put in more than

12:13

60 vetos just to shield Israel from

12:19

responsibility. Yes. Shield Israel from United Nations sanctions. Shield Israel from uh

12:29

boycott, divest and um

12:34

sanction. Yeah. uh the E uh D uh S movement is

12:43

probably the only thing that would vindicate

12:49

those three advisory opinions of the international court of justice because if you have a genocidal state I mean a

12:57

genocidal government I’m not saying the Jewish people

13:02

matter of fact uh the curse of this genocide is going to fall back on

13:10

the Jewish people, the Israelis and many future generations that will have to

13:16

come to grip. Yes. With the horror of this co-

13:22

responsibility like the Germans have to deal uh with the horror of the

13:28

Holocaust. In any event, the tremendous numbers of Jews in Israel and I know many

13:37

in the United Kingdom, Professor Elan Pap, not far away from you in exor.

13:43

Yes. Uh in the United States, my friend Norman Finkelstein, my friend um Jeffrey

13:49

uh Saxs, my friend uh uh Steven Kinser. I mean these are Jews who have values,

13:58

Jews who have every right to be proud of the Jewish heritage, who are very proud

14:04

of this great uh contribution that uh Jews have made to humanity

14:11

including Sigbut Freud and u uh Albert Einstein who by the way back in uh 1933

14:21

uh upon the request of the League of Nation wrote a very important book,

14:28

Why War? Published by the League of Nation. And uh I’ve taken that book to

14:34

the security council and to the general assembly and I’ve held it up and said

14:39

look guys uh why didn’t our uh

14:47

parents and grandparents implement these concrete pragmatic recommendation of

14:54

Einstein to avoid war to prevent war and uh I’m a member as I said of the Geneva

15:02

International Peace Research Institute and we put out books like this like

15:09

which uh ways or which uh avenue uh toward peace as the case may be. Uh

15:19

the hegemonial capitalist world uh does not want any of

15:27

that. They’re making billions and billions uh in the sale of arm in the production

15:34

and the sale of ark. And of course the whole thing is a revolving door. As you know, the uh military-industrial complex

15:44

uh basically buys the Congress, buys the

15:49

senator, buys uh the uh the the representatives and then the representatives by way of

15:56

thanks, they vote huge trillion dollar

16:01

military budgets and then of course we produce more missiles and more

16:07

ammunition and more elsewhere is crazy. I can never understand this because what that does

16:12

is it’s actually against the people of America, it actually damages and harms

16:18

not just the citizens of the world but the citizens of America primarily and I

16:23

just don’t understand how that you don’t put the money into schools into healthcare.

16:29

Yes. Into infrastructure. Every time I read that a uh bridge has fallen into the

16:37

Mississippi, I say it’s really not funny because people die when these things

16:43

happen. But why do these things happen? Lack of maintenance. Yes.

16:48

Remember the disaster in uh New Orleans and I have many friends in New Orleans.

16:54

Uh the Katrina disaster was predicted in scientific America 5 years before.

17:00

Yes. Then 3 years before there was a followup in National Geographic that said if we get hit by a category 5 uh

17:10

hurricane this is going to happen and exactly that happened that anyone took

17:15

any measures to prevent it of course not because who’s going to die all these

17:21

afroamerican yes all the poor that they live in the areas that got inundated those are the people

17:27

who got uh hit by uh by the capina.

17:33

It’s unbelievable how much priority there is within America, one of the biggest economies in the world. Um Alfred, can I just ask you so you from

17:41

you mentioned when you started your work in the United Nations, you had a great team that you were working with and then

17:47

now where we are things have kind of deteriorated so much that it’s kind of

17:53

um unrecognizable from where you started. So, how did we slide down to

17:59

this point where we are now? And how how the house has been essentially

18:07

hijacked, penetrated. The CIA

18:12

approached me when I was a senior lawyer at the office of the high commissioner

18:17

for human rights. I was approached not once but twice to become a mole. Well,

18:23

I told him, “Go jump in Lake Geneva cuz I’m not going to be your mo. It’s not my

18:29

thing.” I How How did that conversation go, Alfred? Was it like um incentive? Was it

18:37

threats? What What were they doing? They first made friends with me uh from the US mission. they first made friends

18:44

with me and it was only about one year down the road that the first offerh was

18:50

made and I just said look you know I just don’t have the gift I mean you have

18:56

to be gifted to be a good start if I have a coffee with you and then half an

19:01

hour later I’m going to report to somebody else what you told me you’re going to see on my face I said that’s in

19:08

my Cuban temperament you asked me about my Cuban uh background Yes. I mean I am

19:14

the worst possible actor. I mean my feeling was on my face.

19:20

I mean you can read it. And as I say I cannot dissimulate. I

19:25

cannot possibly u try to uh scam you because I don’t know how to

19:32

do it. I mean that takes I wrote an article for counter punch

19:39

u called um a culture of cheating

19:45

and I referred that to US education.

19:50

Uh cheating in the United States is almost a virtue. Uh, cheating means that

19:58

you’re clever, that you can take advantage of the other guy, that you can

20:04

use a half narrative that will seduce uh

20:09

your opponent and you will set a trap for your opponent is going to fall into it. I

20:17

always rejected that. Somehow in my Catholic Jesuit education, I

20:24

I couldn’t accept that. Uh for me it is anti- religion. It is so unethical

20:33

uh to be constantly trying to take uh advantage of uh somebody else. It’s like

20:40

in 19 uh 89 90 91 when uh George HW Bush

20:47

and James Baker uh took advantage of uh Gorbachov.

20:54

Horbachov, a blue-eyed optimist, thought that uh by withdrawing uh Soviet troops

21:02

from central Europe and uh showing his willingness to uh end the cold war and

21:10

cooperate uh with the west that the west would uh embrace him and say now in the

21:16

future we can finally have peace. We can have disarmament for development and

21:21

just uh convert military first

21:27

uh economies into human security economies. That was the dream of

21:32

Gorbachef by the way I met several times and I had enormous respect for the man

21:38

except that he was naive. He let himself be taken advantage of. Yeah. And uh the great criminal here is Bill

21:46

Clinton because uh Bill Clinton didn’t have to push the expansion eastwards.

21:53

Yes. Of uh the um uh NATO contrary to

21:59

concrete promises having been made uh to Gorbach and we thought we just simply

22:05

push it down their throats because they couldn’t do anything about. Yes. And see this is this attitude. If I

22:12

can get away with it, I can do it. Hey there. I hope you’re enjoying this

22:17

episode. Let me just take a moment to introduce our sponsors for today. This episode is kindly being sponsored by the

22:23

Worldwide Listings Company Limited or WLC for short. WLC is a complete A to Z

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22:44

let me also mention that WLC is a company that I personally created and

22:49

I’m a director of. So, when you get in touch with WLC, you will be speaking with directly myself or my team and we

22:56

very much look forward to speaking with you to see how we can serve your needs. Thank you. And with that said, let’s get

23:02

back to the episode. Tell me one thing. So, you brought up Russia. Um, if we talk about the

23:07

Ukrainian Russian war, um, I’ve heard your talks um, on neutrality studies, other platforms, excellent interviews.

23:15

Um, a lot of the the views that you hold are I have very similar views and I was

23:20

talking to some relatives the other day and they were saying how can you be sympathetic towards the Russian position

23:25

when Russia clearly the aggressor and they’re the ones who have just invaded Ukraine. Um, so how do you answer that?

23:32

How do you see the position of Russia, Ukraine and NATO in this whole war? uh

23:37

as I wrote already two months into the war, I write every month in the uh staff

23:46

magazine of the United Nations. I’m a good friend of the editor-inchief and uh

23:52

he allowed me to write uh shall we say controversial pieces and I wrote an

23:58

article under the title uh

24:04

precedence of permissibility. I started that article by saying uh the

24:12

invasion of uh Ukraine by

24:17

Russia on the 24th of uh

24:22

February 2022. It’s a clear violation of article 2 paragraph 4 of the UN charter. It’s a

24:30

violation of the prohibition of the use of force. Yeah. But the fact is

24:40

that this same article 2 paragraph 4 prohibit

24:46

the threat of the use of prohibits the provocation.

24:53

Yeah. Now, if you install 12 CIA

24:59

bases uh in Ukraine close to the

25:04

Russian front, if you establish 32

25:10

bio labs working on uh biological work,

25:16

if you arm the Ukraine to the teeth,

25:21

uh if You promised Ukraine that they’re going to be members of NATO contrary to

25:32

well that is an existential danger uh for Russia and

25:39

Russia would be blind would be irresponsible

25:45

uh not to factor that. Yeah. And I always give the example look if

25:53

China were to persuade

25:59

Mexico to enter into a military alliance with China.

26:04

Yes. Uh the United States would immediately react. Yes.

26:10

as it did back in 1962

26:15

in October when the Soviet Union put missile in Cuba.

26:22

Yes. The United Nations, United States at that time uh John F. Kennedy uh said we

26:30

won’t tolerate missiles 90 miles away uh from Florida. Uh so uh there was a quid

26:39

pro cool I remember the debates I was in Chicago

26:44

at the time I watched them in on television the debates between Adley

26:49

Stevenson III for the United States and Valentine Zoren for uh the Soviet Union.

26:57

By the way I I met Valentine Zoren uh later when I was a UN staff. uh but uh

27:05

they actually thrashed it out publicly and that is a great utility of the

27:10

United Nations that you can give up steam that you can uh instead of

27:17

immediately pushing the button and immediately shooting at each other, you

27:22

can at least out publicly. And as has been said very often, uh blah

27:29

blah is much better than boom boom. And uh so it was that uh

27:35

I have not heard that withdrew its missile from uh

27:44

Turkey and the Soviet Union withdrew the missiles uh from Cuba.

27:50

Yes, that was a uh compromise. Now the Russians

27:56

entered into Minkx one and Mink 2

28:01

in 2014 and 2015. Uh both very reasonable

28:09

uh treaties. Yes. Uh sponsored by France and uh Germany.

28:16

And the idea was uh okay you stop shooting at each other.

28:22

number one. Number two, uh you sit down together with uh the uh

28:30

Russian speaking minor majorities of uh the Donbars. Yes. And you reach a modus vending, you give

28:38

them uh a generous autonomous status like in so many

28:45

countries that have autonomous space and uh they can do their thing. they can you

28:52

know cultivate their language, their culture, their traditions, everything without any

28:59

interference uh from uh Kia. That would have been entirely possible. And who violated it?

29:06

80 80% of the violations of the uh of the ceasefire were from Ukraine side.

29:11

Yes. And uh that’s why I’m saying uh the

29:16

uh war uh in uh Ukraine was provoked. It was

29:23

the provocation, the relentless provocation by NATO against uh Russia

29:31

that after eight years of non-stop um uh bunking

29:39

uh there was an answer. But uh Putin actually played the United Nations game

29:46

and he played it in good faith. He participated in all these

29:53

so-called Normandy formats nest

30:01

he uh tried to facilitate uh a peaceful solution.

30:10

Article 2, paragraph three of the UN Carter uh charter obliges states uh to

30:17

solve their differences by peaceful means and that is what he did for eight

30:23

years. Yes. But as we know from Angela Mer in

30:28

an infamous interview that she gave in dai which was then confirmed by this nink

30:37

frol uh they actually entered

30:44

into the minsk agreement in bad faith. Yes. meaning as Angela Merkel uh

30:51

confessed the only purpose was to gain time so that they could arm Ukraine to

30:58

the teeth. Now don’t ask me. Go figure

31:04

why in the name of God would Angela Merkel make this totally

31:10

useless confession? because she has proven to the world that the world that

31:16

the the west the collective west is in bad has proven to the rest of the world

31:24

that we took Putin for a ride. Now

31:30

nobody likes to be taken for a ride. Go back to my article presidents of

31:36

permissibility. go back to my article uh the culture of cheating and uh obviously

31:44

the uh invasion was an aggression and it was a violation uh of international law

31:52

but the war didn’t start on the 24th of February uh 2022 it started on the 22nd

32:03

of February 2014. 14 8 years before

32:10

and it started with an illegal unconstitutional

32:16

coupeta financed by the west with its support of the United States and um of

32:25

the European Union. Uh and uh this was

32:30

intended essentially to so destabilize uh uh Russia. Uh and as you know from

32:37

the uh reports of several think tanks including the Rand Corporation,

32:44

essentially the idea uh is uh to uh so

32:52

dismember uh uh Russia that uh American uh and

33:00

western transnationals can then uh administer

33:06

the uh enormous natural resources. Yes. Of Russia.

33:11

I mean the idea and there’s many uh who have um uh written about this. It’s not

33:17

even it’s not even secret. Not a secret. Uh the idea of breaking Russia uh into

33:24

several pieces and then uh having them more or less uh under western control.

33:31

And uh the Russia’s not stupid. I speak Russian. I have been uh in Russia very

33:37

often. In fact, when I was still a staff member, uh I went

33:44

uh as uh representative to the uh Russian minority in Estonia, La

33:51

Lithuania, and I wrote two reports for the security council. And uh I also of

33:56

course went uh to the ministry for uh uh Russian minority in uh in Moscow and uh

34:03

we flashed out my my reports were actually very quite well received. Also in 1994

34:10

uh I was a representative for the election in March 94 the parliamentary

34:17

elections in Ukraine in uh June 94 the presidential. So I I met Kakuk and I met

34:25

Puchma and all these people. I spoke with them in Russian. I crisscrossed the

34:31

country and obviously the east and certainly Crimea

34:37

is overwhelmingly Russia and they feel Russia.

34:44

Yes. So don’t try to Ukranize them against their will. Just they’re there. They are

34:52

peaceful people. They want to live together, but don’t try to force them to

34:58

the Golden West. I mean, if the Russians of Lugansk and of Don are uh happy being

35:08

Russian and they have historical,

35:14

ethnic, religious links uh to uh Russia,

35:19

to Moscow, etc. Let them be. I mean, why do you want to make Ukrainians out of

35:27

them? And um that’s part of the problem this arrogance this hubris of the west.

35:34

Yes Alfred I think it was so crazy Ukraine had such a amazing opportunity to play that role of a buffer a neutral

35:41

state that could benefit from both sides linguistically ethnically um

35:46

economically and they didn’t and now they’re suffering because of that. But what I find most crazy

35:53

what I find most crazy Alfred is is the role of Europe and especially Germany how they have kind of um allowed this

36:01

situation to damage Germany’s own economy for the sake of America. How do you explain that?

36:08

Uh difficult difficult to explain because I lived seven years in German

36:14

and I at the time when I went there with a fullbrite fellowship M

36:20

uh I was received with open arm. This was a Germany that I really

36:28

admired. Yeah. And I made enormous uh I wrote books, three books that

36:34

became bestsellers in Germany. uh my first book being Nemesis at Pam and then

36:39

uh uh the Leak War crime Euro then unmar

36:45

uh and both among the three more than 200,000 copies uh and you know for uh

36:53

scholarly books to sell that many something uh at that time they were published in

36:59

the best publishers in Germany in Urstein and in Sahape and in Dutch

37:04

passion book black, etc. Call hammer. Today, they wouldn’t touch me with a 12.

37:13

No way. There’s been a uh degangolad, an intellectual and

37:20

cognitive degrad in uh in Germany. Uh Germany has lost its soul really. It’s

37:28

just unexplainable. I have sorry to cut you. I’ve got so many friends in Asia

37:34

who are constantly asking me how did Europe and Germany allow this situation? Why did they go along with it to destroy

37:40

their own economy, to destroy their own society um to end up in this position? I

37:46

just don’t understand it. So maybe you can explain. Yeah. Well, you you know the impact uh of

37:52

psychology. you know the impact uh of Orwellian

37:58

psychology and what has happened in Germany uh is the sequel of the uh re-education

38:09

program. The Germans were taught to hate themselves. Yes. Taught

38:16

to uh build their new identity not

38:22

on Emmanuel K, Gert, Schiller, Beethoven,

38:29

Brahms, uh, Hamar.

38:34

No, no, no, no, no. The 12 years of national socialism is

38:40

human. That’s what we are. Our parents, our grandparents were all criminals

38:47

and we are genocidal monsters. And uh they actually called the Germans

38:54

selfhate selfhate destroyed their soul. Uh that was not

39:01

the case in the 1970s. Uh these people I met many who had lived

39:07

through the war and many who had as Helm Cole whom I also knew personally. him

39:13

gold said uh the uh blessing of uh the

39:19

gab of having been born later. So uh if you were at the time of the second world

39:26

war uh 10 15 years old they cannot blame you uh for what uh their parents had

39:35

done of course. And uh so I in the 70s and 80s uh these Germans who still had a

39:44

functioning brain and who were still not completely

39:52

reprogrammed uh through the re-education program.

39:57

uh these uh Germans still believe in

40:02

Emmanuel Khan in Gur in Schilla in uh but the generation that came after

40:08

and there was a tur there was a watershed moment in 198586

40:16

when there was a dispute among historians in Germany and uh I

40:22

participated quite actively in that dispute uh on the one side were the

40:27

classical professional historians like um Cloud Hildebran and um uh Hayen

40:35

Schulz and Michel and Andreas Hillgruba who was more or less my mentor uh and an Noler uh and on

40:45

the other side were a politician. On the other side was this rabble rouser called

40:50

Jurgen Habaramas who is supported by uh the mainstream media all the time. He’s

40:56

a philosopher not a historian. Uh on the other side you had Bram Viperman. You

41:01

had Bram Benz etc etc. Basically teological historian. Uh you want to

41:09

arrive at this conclusion in history and then you work back from it. that you just select what important for

41:16

the narrative and everything else is evacuated and uh well although logically you would

41:24

say uh Andreas Hila and Malta won the

41:30

debate the politicians saw benefit for them

41:36

in aligning themselves uh with uh the destroyers of history with uh people

41:44

like Jorgen Habamat etc etc and those are the ones have been propagating

41:51

uh the idea of German guilt and you know the statement uh that after

41:58

Alitz it’s impossible to write poetry I mean statements like that and uh I

42:06

remember in Dston you know that Dston was annihilated

42:11

uh in a totally uh terroristic attack. Yes. On the night of the 13th of February

42:19

1945, it had zero military uh meaning zero. I mean it was not a uh a military

42:27

target. It had no munitions factories or uh tank factories or anything like that.

42:34

uh and on top of it was full of refugees because uh at this time the Soviet army

42:41

was pushing from the east and then there were millions of Germans on the run. I

42:48

mean millions of civilians from uh Sicia from Brlau uh fleeing west and more or

42:56

less the first big town uh they could find refuge in was and then gets uh

43:04

obliterated by 1,500 uh RFA planes that first threw bombs uh

43:13

to uh uh knock out the roofs of uh the center of town, the very center of town.

43:20

Uh and then they threw in in incendiary bombs with a result of a fire storm. And

43:28

at the time the international committee of the Red Cross estimated a death toll of 275,000.

43:34

I thought that that was much too high and subsequent historians came down to

43:40

130,000. I myself am persuaded that it was about a 100,000 death and and then

43:47

typical for Germany. They’re not supposed to be victims. They’re supposed to be only perpetrator. There’s a binary

43:54

approach to German history. So the Germans have the role of the

43:59

perpetrator. They cannot be seen as being victims of war crimes of the good guys being the

44:06

bricks. It’s insane. totally logical for that. It is

44:11

some of these same arguments are presented by the Israelis when they’re now attacking Gaza. No.

44:19

Yeah. Yeah. It’s I mean it is narrative control and then if you say but

44:27

then uh you will be prosecuted. Yeah. I mean I have not accepted a

44:34

single invitation to speak in Germany for six years and I

44:41

used to be a shall we say well received

44:48

yes I can’t understand this German guilt and this

44:58

it must be so sad for you to see this yeah it must So sad for you to see this

45:03

decline of the German society on a personal level.

45:08

These idiots like Friedri NS and like Olaf Schultz and like Cling Be and like

45:17

Claudia Ro uh like Analena Belro this impossible woman stupid woman. But as I

45:25

mean uh they do not spoil my love for German culture.

45:33

They do not spoil my love uh for Herman Hess and for um uh Ran Maria or for the

45:42

music uh whether it be Brahms or whether it be Brookna or whether it be Beetho uh

45:49

that they cannot do. Uh so uh if they have a psychological problem, terribly

45:56

sorry I’m a historian but I am not a psychoanalyst.

46:02

I cannot help them. So what I do is I just simply don’t go to Germany because if I were to lecture

46:11

in Germany as I lecture here in Switzerland, I’d be arrested.

46:16

It’s crazy about uh Gaza. If I call Gaza a genocide, they will

46:24

tell me that I’m an anti-semite. Yeah. And if I speak about Ukraine and I say

46:32

that uh the war was provoked, then they will say that I am engaging in apology

46:39

of war crimes and crimes against humanity by Russia.

46:44

And that’s no exaggeration. I mean, there’s so many decent journalists, activists being arrested, harassed by

46:50

the police all over Europe, UK, France, Germany, all these countries. And it’s so sad to see this decline of European

46:58

intellectualism. But the decline is worse than Yeah, the decline is worse.

47:04

Yeah. The European Court of Human Right is part of that decline. The judges and I

47:11

know many the judges are shall we say betraying

47:17

their oath. The judges are not administering justice. They are

47:22

administering politics. What is politically correct? Yes.

47:28

There are so of recent judgments of the European

47:33

Court of Human Right apart as a lawyer.

47:38

Yeah. And I sometimes my student and I say try to explain this because I teach

47:45

history, world history, but I also teach international jurist prudence.

47:51

Yes. And when I teach international jurists, I like to give them specific cases and analyze them and say try to tell me how

47:59

they arrived at this conclusion because normally the facts wouldn’t take

48:05

you there. The facts would take you somewhere else. Yes. And uh you see they are issuing a

48:12

judgment that is quite clearly political and they are going along uh with the

48:20

persecution of people who are exercising their right

48:25

of freedom of expression. And uh that’s why I don’t speak anymore

48:32

in Germany uh because I think that I would be arrested.

48:38

That is of course I can do it. Of course I can defend myself. Of course at the end of the day I’m going to be a critic.

48:44

Yeah. But that’s not the idea. That’s not the point. Lawfare and this is lawfare. Lawfare is

48:50

intended to intimidate. Yes. Uh if you know that you can’t be arrested.

48:55

Yes. There’s people whose homes have been broken into because you don’t want

49:00

the the the huge legal cost of defending yourself. Of course it’s just harassment.

49:07

the disruption of your work. Yes. Because I like to write, I like to

49:12

publish and uh if I have to defend myself against frivolous

49:21

accusation by uh the uh federal uh uh German

49:28

federal government uh then all my work stops. I cannot continue my scientific

49:36

work. I had so many questions to ask you, but I’m cognizant of your time. You have other commitments. Before you go, do you

49:41

have two We can do a followup at another date. Huh? Yeah, sure. Meaning, nobody likes to listen to uh

49:48

you know, there’s this expression, you can talk about anything but not more than 45 minutes. And um so uh in order

49:56

to wrap this up because there’s something that I did want to say. Yes. Uh

50:02

there are blueprints for peace in DH. The Trump

50:09

peace plan is a nonstarter. It is a nonbrainer. It is a revolt against the

50:16

United Nations charter. It is an attempt to make the United Nations irrelevant.

50:22

Uh I’m against it. So is the raptor on Palestine. Professor Francesca Albanessa

50:30

for whom I have an enormous respect. Yeah, blueprints for peace in Palestine have

50:36

been many. But the bad fate of the Israelis, whether it be in Madrid or in

50:42

Oslo or elsewhere, together with Jimmy Carter, together with uh uh Bill

50:49

Clinton, uh is legendary. Uh Jimmy Carter whom I knew well and I

50:56

admired uh did this book uh uh Palestine peace.

51:03

Yes. Not a part. That was 2006.

51:08

In 2009 he came out with this one. We can have peace in the holy land. If uh

51:16

this had been implemented we would have peace in the holy land. But the fact is

51:21

that Israel does not want peace in the holy land. They want the holy land for themselves only.

51:28

Yes, they want to take it for themselves and they want to expel every Palestinian.

51:36

So it is uh you go back to the book of Joshua and to the book of Samuel and to

51:44

the extermination of the Canaanites and the Amalites etc. And it’s even been

51:50

quoted by Netanyao and uh I must say uh the um

51:59

high commissioner for human rights Nav’i pill the best high commissioner we ever had. Uh she was high commissioner at the

52:06

same time I was um United Nations RA. Uh

52:11

well uh she was the head of the international independent investigatory

52:18

commission on Palestine and on the 16th of September this year she presented her

52:24

final report to the human rights council 72 pages

52:30

of course demonstrating that what is happened uh is genocide and what is

52:36

continuing is genocide. she has explicitly rejected uh Trump’s 20point

52:42

plan and this new so-called uh peace plan. Let me say I’m very much uh happy

52:50

that the level of violence has been reduced of course

52:56

I mean the ceasefire is not a real ceasefire ceasefire is not peaceful continuing the genocide but it’s

53:03

continuing the genocide in slow motion yes but to the extent that uh the degree of

53:09

violence has decreased it yes I would I I could even go along with an

53:16

international force uh that would keep the Israelis out and

53:25

protect uh the Palestinian civilian population. Discard uh Trump’s fantasies of a Gaza

53:35

Riviera, you know, for uh billionaires. Uh

53:41

what we need here of course is intellectual honesty and what we need here is a commitment uh to peace as

53:49

indeed uh Jimmy Carter had. By the way, this is Jimmy Carter’s uh signature. I

53:56

have uh I must say a dozen of his books uh dedicated to me. And um another thing

54:03

I wanted to say, blueprint for peace in

54:08

Ukraine. I published a blueprint for peace in Ukraine in uh December 22. I

54:17

brought it up to date and I published uh a new 10point plan in 2024. It’s been

54:24

quoted. But of course the United States and of course the European Union has

54:29

absolutely no intention uh of going along uh with uh my

54:35

recommendations which also include the role of the United Nations conducting uh

54:40

referenda to find out what people really want. sess. Uh uh but the problem is as I said not

54:48

only uh is the media hijacked, not only is the media in the service of Washington

54:54

and Brussels, not only are we getting uh fake news and fake history and fake law

55:00

by the uh media. Uh almost everything has been penetrated. Almost everything

55:07

has been corrupted including the Noble Peace Prize.

55:13

Yeah. No pet prices. This is the best book on the field by a

55:20

Norwegian uh lawyer who just passed away at the age of 85. Uh Frederick Heerale.

55:27

Uh he has been uh the we say ultimate expert on the last will and testament of

55:34

Alfred Noble. And in this book uh he uh gives you all of the uh winners of uh

55:45

the uh Nobel Peace Prize and then criticizes them because they say on that

55:51

same year uh there were other candidates who did

55:58

fit the conditions laid down by um uh

56:05

Afron Noble in his uh last will well in testament and he proposed that of course

56:12

great people and also people whom I knew personally uh should have had it

56:18

including Pedrico Mayor Paragosa who was

56:24

for many years the uh director of UNESCO and who was the driving force behind the

56:32

declaration on a culture of peace. and of course the founder of uh the

56:39

foundation culture of peace. So he could have gotten it in uh uh 2000 and uh 21

56:51

and uh he definitely would have deserved it. So nothing who would have deserved

56:57

except that things are getting worse with the Nobel Peace. I think they should I mean it is uh really it is an insult

57:03

to your ints to my intelligence. It is an insult to

57:08

the world. It is a betrayal uh of Alfred Noble.

57:14

Yeah. Uh who wanted to give the award to those who did the most

57:20

for building bridges. Yes. for understanding uh other people,

57:28

for preventing uh war, for disarmament and uh it is a a disgrace that people uh

57:38

like Barack Obama were like Henry Kissinger uh were given this uh award.

57:44

But this year, 2025, uh you remember the absolutely

57:51

laughable, ludicrous uh arguments uh put down by uh

57:57

uh Donald Trump, this narcissist, this megalomaniac who

58:03

who thought that he should get it. Yes. But I mean that that would have been a

58:08

scandal and it but I mean they they made it almost even worse.

58:14

Yes. They gave the award to Maria Corina Machado

58:20

who wants who wants her country to be invaded by America.

58:26

I mean against her own country. Yes. I mean this is treason. Yeah. Not really treason. This is the use of

58:33

force prohibited in the United Nations charter. This is interference in the internal

58:39

affairs of other states which is prohibited in international law. This is customary international law. It is

58:46

absolutely breathtaking uh what um uh the uh noble committee has

58:53

done in destroying their own credibility. And as I say in my book uh

59:00

the uh human right industry uh which by the way got some very good

59:05

reviews. Here’s the human right industry. And then here you see the deal

59:11

that is the United States that turns the United Nations and turns uh the World

59:17

Economic Forum and turns NATO and turns everything. is the complete corruption of the human

59:25

rights protection system. And I uh sent you an article that I wrote um back two

59:32

years ago. Yes. Uh called who will guard over the

59:38

guardian? That is a quotation from the sixth satire by Juvenile

59:45

uh written 2,000 years ago. And the question is

59:54

I mean what do you do if the institutions created to protect your

1:00:00

rights secret what do you do when those institution the European court of human rights

1:00:07

the human rights council it’s so true actually in the service of the hedgeimma

1:00:14

they are not in the service of humanity they don’t give a damn what you want.

1:00:20

They are pushing the agenda of Washington and Brussels. That is the

1:00:26

world today. And you’d better wake up. You’d better understand that. So that at least

1:00:34

uh you don’t trust institutions that do not deserve your

1:00:40

trust. Yes, Albert. That’s so true. And there’s so many other things, sanctions, um the

1:00:46

Middle East crisis, so many other things I’d like to talk to you about and maybe we can arrange another day, but I really thank you for your time today and your

1:00:52

in I’ll be available. Thank you so much. And I’ll put your links to your website and your articles

1:00:58

on Counter Punch in the notes for people especially to my human rights trilogy. Sure. I want people to read this book.

1:01:06

Uh the u uh building a just world order in many

1:01:12

ways uh is too scholarly and much

1:01:17

thicker also. It’s uh uh it’s a very very useful book

1:01:24

on the theory and practice of self-determination on with my 25 principles of international order. But

1:01:32

the the the the book that actually requires action that should move you to

1:01:38

action is this one. Uh because I tell you the uh system has to be reformed.

1:01:47

Yeah. It cannot continue like it and I tell you how to reform it. But what I need is

1:01:54

of course visibility. I mean that must make it to the uh

1:02:02

through social media. Yes. Uh to the average American, to the

1:02:08

average Brick, to the average Frenchman and German. And uh as you can well

1:02:14

imagine, although I give many interviews, CNN is not going to interview me.

1:02:22

Uh the BBC is not going to me. Thankfully, the sensible generation is now

1:02:28

completely ignoring those media outlets anyway. So, I think they’ve kind of becoming irrelevant anyway. So, it’s

1:02:35

their loss. That’s what I’m hoping. That’s what I’m hoping. But, as I say,

1:02:40

uh there’s also a lot of fake news in the social media.

1:02:46

Yes. uh in in YouTube in particularly in YouTube and there’s a lot of uh artificial

1:02:54

intelligence uh and is created by artificial intelligence yes that are likely to

1:03:02

shall we say um model the work as see these these are even more topics

1:03:09

I want to talk to you about next time so let’s leave this to next time because AI and all of these things that are coming

1:03:15

what implications they’re going to have on human rights and other things. Let’s talk about that next time. Thank you so

1:03:20

much for your time, Alberta. I don’t want to get you late for your next appointment. Right. Take care.

1:03:27

All the very best. Thank you so much for your time today. Take care. Bye-bye. Byebye. Thanks.

oooooo

Geure herriari, Euskal Herriari dagokionez, hona hemen gure apustu bakarra:

We Basques do need a real Basque independent State in the Western Pyrenees, just a democratic lay or secular state, with all the formal characteristics of any independent State: Central Bank, Treasury, proper currency¹, out of the European Distopia and faraway from NATO, being a BRICS partner…

Euskal Herriaren independentzia eta Mikel Torka

eta

Esadazu arren, zer da gu euskaldunok egiten ari garena eta zer egingo dugun

gehi

MTM: Zipriztinak (2), 2025: Warren Mosler

(Pinturak: Mikel Torka)

Gehigarriak:

Zuk ez dakizu ezer Ekonomiaz

MTM klase borrokarik gabe, kontabilitate hutsa da

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