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The Palestinian Revolution. Is it over or just beginning? On The Protago… https://youtu.be/hgiDUeR16p0?si=hzrof-g3Rojmbm39
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The Palestinian Revolution. Is it over or just beginning? On The Protagonists.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgiDUeR16p0)
Host: Mike Ryan.
Professor Alfred de Zayas, Professor of International Law, Geneva School of Diplomacy Juris Doctor, Harvard Law School. Professor Alfred de Zayas, one of the leading academics in international law. He is Professor of international law, Geneva school of diplomacy juris doctor, Harvard Law School, Dr. phil. in modern history, University of Göttingen, Germany, author of 12 books including his human rights trilogy https://www.claritypress.com/book-aut… He is a former UN Independent Expert on International order, former Secretary of the UN Human Rights Committee former Chief of the Petitions Department at the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.
Adel Darwish, British Commentator, Historian\ Author & Westminster Parliament Reporter. Adel Alexander Darwish is a Westminster-based British political journalist, a veteran Fleet Street reporter, author, historian, broadcaster, and political commentator.Political Editor ( London Bureau Chief) World Media : M incl: The Middle East Magazine; ME News. Life style AppFabNews.com columnist: The Tribune, Middle East Forum.
Dr. Frank Romano, Author & Middle East Analyst. Dr. Frank Romano earned a PhD at University of Paris, Panthéon Sorbonne. He is a member of the California and Marseille Bars. He represents the Palestinian people before the ICC. He is a Peace & Freedom activist and has organized many demonstrations in Palestine, Israel and the United States against the Israeli occupation. He is author of: Love and Terror in the Middle East, 5th Ed. Frank was deported from Israel in 2019 for defending a Bedouin village, Khan al-Ahmar, from destruction by an Israeli bulldozer. He was owner of the Handala and participant on the vessel as sailed to Gaza (July 20-26, 2025) attempting to break the Israeli siege of Gaza and deliver to Gaza important humanitarian aid especially for the children of Gaza. By participating in tis and the Global Sumud , he wished to be more directly involved in breaking the siege of Gaza and help shine a light on Israel’s involvement in genocide.
About: The Protagonists is a panel of three or four, which presents hot-topic discussions on politics, business, newsmakers, global trends, present-day conflicts, and dangers and challenges facing our world.
About: The World Today is a current affairs program which delivers national and international news and analysis to audiences globally.
The World Today airs on weekdays and brings the best of the global journalism to audiences around the world. We invite you to tune in and follow
The World Today for the latest international news, investigations and analysis from Africa, the Americas, Asia, Australia, Canada, Europe, the Middle East and the U.K.
Transkripzioa:
0:00
With your help, we can continue to fight for freedom, reach new audiences, and bring important information to the
0:06
public free of charge. This is not possible without your generosity. Join our quest for the truth and our freedom.
0:13
And donate today, telling it as it is. This is today’s news talk. The world
0:19
today. For the world today, this is James O’Neal. 10 people were injured too
0:25
critically when a 35-year-old man allegedly shouted Alahu Akbar and drove into pedestrians and a cyclist on the Il
0:31
Dullion France. Among the victims is a political aid from Marine Le Pen’s National Rally Party, airlifted the
0:38
hospital in critical condition. Police arrested the suspect known for minor crimes and drug use and opened an
0:44
attempted murder case while probing possible terrorist motives. Gas cylinders were found in the torch
0:49
vehicle suggesting a failed explosion attempt. Interior Minister officials said counterterror police have not yet
0:56
taken over the case. Politicians including Jordan Bardella and Eric Zamore condemned the attack as proof
1:02
that Islamist violence now reaches even rural deep France. Democrats scored big wins in blue state
1:08
races with Abigail Spanberger and Mikey Charelle taking gubanitarial contest by
1:14
double digits. In New York City, high turnout delivered a historic result as progressive Zoran Mandani defeated
1:20
Andrew Cuomo with more than two million ballots cast, the first time since 1969.
1:26
Voters cited affordability and prices as key concerns. If anyone can show a
1:31
nation betrayed by Donald Trump how to defeat him, it is the city that gave
1:36
rise to him. So, Donald Trump, since I know you’re watching,
1:43
I have four words for you. Turn the volume up.
1:50
British police have launched another manhunt after a 24 yearear-old Algerian sex offender was mistakenly released
1:55
from HMP Wsworth, further embarrassing the Labor government. The case follows a recent wrongful release of Ethiopian
2:02
migrant Hadusha Kabatu convicted of sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl outside an asylum hotel. Kabatu’s
2:09
release triggered nationwide protest before he was rearrested and deported with 500 pounds in government funds. The
2:15
new air came to light nearly a week after the Algerian’s release, raising questions over delays in police
2:20
notification. Deputy Prime Minister David Lammy has ordered a review amid revelations that
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262 prisoners were mistakenly free between March of 2024 and March of 2025.
2:32
Several German events are cancelled amid terror risk concerns and rising security costs. Overall Christmas market was
2:39
scrapped after organizers said they couldn’t fund measures like added guards and anti-vehicle barriers. Kurpin’s
2:45
market was also cancelled. Bon’s Kessanich Autumn Festival shutdown, citing the inability to meet current
2:51
security requirements. Organizers said requests for city funding fell short.
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The heightened caution follows deadly attacks at public festivals, including Berlin’s 2016 Christmas market truck
3:02
attack, 2024 Magndeburgg incident, thus a Solingan stabbing spree. Officials say
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operating without robust protections against threats such as uncontrolled vehicles is not an option. A convicted
3:14
pedophile wanted by German authorities is Aldan Sulleon was arrested at the taxpayer funded Bratana Ashley Hotel in
3:21
Hail which is used to house asylum seekers. The National Crime Agency detained him for extradition to Germany
3:27
over child sex offenses. Outraged local MP Connor Ran criticized the government for placing Sulamon in a migrant hotel
3:34
and demanded his swift deportation. Shadow Defense Secretary James Cartage asked David Lambie a third time if he
3:41
can confirm that no other asylumseeking offenders have been freed. Out of prison. It’s a clear question. Can he give an answer?
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Deputy Prime Minister, get a grip, man. I know I’m the justice secretary. That’s why I’m at the dispatch box. Also, as deputy prime
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minister, we know that I am not going to pray an aid. Dane Anne
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Owens is a former deputy commissioner in London, head of the NCA. It is for her
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to get to the bottom of that work. Of course, we know that there have been spikes since 2021 under his watch. When
4:14
did he come to this house and apologize? We’ll be back with another news breakak at the top of the next hour. This has been James O’Neal for the world today.
4:22
With your help, we can continue to fight for freedom, reach new audiences, and bring important information to the
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public free of charge. This is not possible without your generosity. Join our quest for the truth and our freedom,
4:34
and donate today. Telling it as it is. This is today’s news talk, the world
4:41
today. [Music]
4:50
[Applause] [Music]
5:15
and Welcome. Thanks for your company again. This is the protagonist on the world today. Um we have some fantastic
5:23
guests who one will be joining us partway through the uh the whole program. Um
5:30
the we’re talking about the Palestinian Revolution. Is it over or is it the
5:37
beginning? The world is holding its breath on Gaza. The virtues signaling west remains silent while the
5:44
perpetrators of genocide and torture go unpunished and a new normal takes place.
5:50
Will the Trump peace plan become a reality? And are the benefits stacked in favor of the ruling parties and private
5:58
interest? What will the Palestinians get? The right to live under the governance of others, albeit with the
6:06
absence of terror and daily gunfire. Having stopped the killing temporarily,
6:12
should the peace plan be given a a good chance? Or is it so fundamentally flawed
6:18
it should not get that chance? So we should go back to the drawing board and stop make sure the the census killing
6:25
and the genocide is stopped. The time is right now. It’s right now. The time is
6:32
for bold action to write some of the wrongs of the past. what can be done and
6:38
who would lead this. We’ve had suggestions that Tony Blair might heaven
6:44
truly I don’t know which is worse eating glass or having Tony Blair be the governor. Uh
6:52
could another peace plan win acceptance? Maybe we could include the Palestinians
6:58
in the decision making this time and the and that’s something the Palestinians
7:03
could own. Should Netanyahu BB be banished to Israel force to dismantle
7:09
its apartheid state and it’s it and also its expansionist ambitions in the Middle
7:16
East wants to be the ruling nation of the entire universe backed up by its
7:23
surf Donald Trump. Does the UN have the gonads, the ability and credibility to
7:29
enact its resolutions? Most likely not. But is it it but it is sorry it is worth
7:36
finding an alternative path to peace and I think that’s an important thing that
7:42
we we actually need peace. Now we got a a smaller a smaller panel just for the
7:48
next 10 minutes or so. Uh we have um uh some very good friends of of the pulse
7:56
the TNT and also the world today. And the first one I have to uh make mention
8:01
is Frank Romano Dr. to Frank Romano. Frank, thanks for joining us. Pleasure. Pleasure, Mike. Glad to be
8:08
back. And also, Adele Darwish, thank you for joining us, too.
8:15
We need your microphone on. If you could just turn your Adele, if you could just turn the microphone on, it helps. We
8:20
need to hear your voice, sir. Yes. Good morning. Sorry about that. Sorry, I’m I’m from the age of
8:25
typewriter and tics and before even inventing the bag. Sorry about that. If you’re still very young, I can see you
8:31
about to head off to the gym to watch people out. Maybe that’s a good idea. Heading to Parliament soon.
8:37
Yeah. And and we have also um another guest, Alfredas will be joining us shortly, too. He’s just uh running a bit
8:43
late. Um Frank, you’re an author and a Middle East analyst. Uh just quickly,
8:48
your your thoughts on the ceasefire at the moment. Well, the U ceasefire, it’s not much of
8:55
a ceasefire since um Israel has continued um attacking uh some spots in
9:03
Gaza. Uh the uh however, the plan is is deeply flawed and the the basic flaw is
9:10
uh Mike um that Hamas is not involved. I mean if we just make an analogy I know
9:16
the situations are different uh between the peace process in Ireland and the peace process in Palestine but Shinfine
9:23
and other militant groups were part of the negotiation through every step and
9:28
finally Shinfi was able to agree to lay down arms and integrate into the
9:33
political system. There’s no leeway here for Hamas. Hamas is simply um you know
9:40
ecarted set aside from all the decision making which is which is a a real
9:45
problem because it has shown good faith in wanting to um come compromise with
9:52
Israel. In other words, it’s um compromising and and handing over hostages and bodies of hostages just as
9:59
Israel is handing over um Palestinian hostages and bodies of hostages. Um, but
10:06
it’s showing good faith in in wanting to take steps toward peace and I don’t
10:13
think Netanyahu really is is meeting them late and also the the next flaw is
10:19
having Tony Blair as head of the GA which is the Gaza International Transitional Authority. You know with
10:26
his terrible PLA track record with a quartet I think it was 2007 2015 where
10:31
he completely failed with respect to Palestine. I think it’s good to have someone with authority who has a better
10:38
track record. I think he has very little faith as well as misleading the British people when he was prime minister makes
10:45
him lose credibility and not really the good person for the post as being director of the GA.
10:53
Um Adele Darwish, you’re a British commentator, historian, author and
10:59
Westminster Parliament reporter. Uh what’s your thoughts on the uh peace plan or the temporary uh the ceasefire
11:06
and the peace plan at the moment? Well, the ceasefire is actually one step
11:12
of the peace plan. It’s not comprehensive or obviously um Dr.
11:20
I use a Christian name. So Frank made sort of more comprehensive
11:27
um sort of analysis that just one step at a time. So it’s first was to stop the
11:33
bloodshed and the killing. The second point is uh it’s not actually the world we would
11:41
like to see is we’re dealing with the world as it is now. I mean there are two or three issues actually here as why
11:48
Hamas is not involved in the situation of Ireland IRA and many
11:54
other situation when terrorist groups decided to throw away arms and come into
12:01
negotiating table there was an end game there was um
12:07
an aim at which it would stop the arms struggle the IRA wanted to kick the
12:12
British out and want to have semi-independent northern island with
12:18
the final aim of joining the republic. We don’t know what Hamas endgame is
12:25
because it’s an extension of the Muslim Brotherhood who wanted the world Muslim caliphate who wants destruction of
12:31
Israel. So we don’t really know what final aim is that actually would stop it
12:37
being uh in negotiating people. The second reality is
12:42
the Gulf states, the Arab states who will actually pay for the construction
12:47
of Gaza, who can put pressure on the leaders of Palestinians, who really will
12:52
wave the checkbook. Uh, and also Egypt and Jordan, that’s a
12:58
third issue, who really have peace with Israel and can step in. They don’t want
13:03
Hamas. the church do not want them there because of what the Muslim Brotherhood
13:08
doing in their own country. So the realities here are that nobody wants Hamas not even
13:16
Mahmud Abbas and Palestinian authority. The uh third uh aspect is we might have
13:23
a negative view of Tony Blair in the liberal west on the way the
13:29
last war in Iraq was conducted etc etc but reality is a
13:36
Tony Blair has good experience he can pick the phone and speak to everyone
13:42
involved with ease which not many other negotiators and he can do that because
13:47
I’m talking now all all of that only about Gaza and ceasefire. I think the actual peace plan that Frank was talking
13:53
about is a very long aim and I I recall because I’m actually I met these people
13:59
over the last 50 years. I knew him personally. I remember a conversation with Philip Habib who was the 1980s
14:07
envoy of Henry Kissinger in the region and he told me there are at the world
14:13
stand now there are some problems unsolvables
14:18
and what we always aim is try to prolong the ceasefire or prolong the quiet on
14:26
the front between two conflicts. And unfortunately until this view in the
14:32
United States of America changes then the long-term peace plan would be
14:38
difficult. Now this view changes in America with the uh President Trump who
14:45
wanted to have a deal who want to actually get on with the deal. So that’s actually a new reality that we should
14:50
use this momentum. The final point is the 7th of October 2023 has totally
14:58
killed the idea of the two-state solution in the mind of many liberal
15:04
Israelis who really will rely on to put pressure on lunatics like Netanyahu and
15:09
his right-wing coalition and replace them with some kind of ambulance.
15:16
Um and we’re joined also by Professor Alfred Des um a dear friend of again of
15:22
us here. Um um we’re just uh the question I posed uh to Frank and also to
15:28
Adele. Um your thoughts on the uh the ceasefire at the moment uh and the if
15:37
there is a ceasefire but there the the perceived ceasefire at the moment and also the Trump peace plan. What’s your
15:44
thoughts on that? Well, I’ve written extensively about it
15:50
already and published in various journals. My colleagues at the office of the high
15:58
commissioner for human rights, the um high commissioner for human
16:03
rights for Kurk, the my successor as independent expert on international order uh professor uh
16:14
Gorgio Katroalos, the high the um special reporter in
16:19
Palestine, Francesca Albani, the former uh special reporter in Palestine uh
16:26
Richard Faulk have all uh criticized
16:32
uh the plan because it is an attempt to circumvent what already exists. That is the highest
16:43
judicial instance of the United Nations, the international court of justice has
16:50
pronounced itself in three separate
16:55
advisory opinions. It is current g currently seized with uh uh two uh
17:05
contentious cases against uh Israel. for dealing here with the situation of a
17:11
genocide that must uh stop and the Trump plan basically is uh complicity in this
17:21
uh genocide. It has enabled the continuation of the shelling and killing
17:29
uh of Palestinians. Basically my first reaction when this came out is this is a non-starter and I
17:36
was very pleased to see uh 30 or so repaired of the United
17:42
Nations rejecting it. I mean the only way the forward is implementing
17:49
international law and not trying to circumvent international law. Uh I don’t
17:55
like Hamas anymore than you do but uh Hamas has not committed genocide whereas
18:02
uh Pal Palestine whereas uh Mr. Netanyahu
18:08
and Yav Gallant who is currently uh under a uh an arrest warrant of the
18:16
International Criminal Court. Uh these people have committed the ultimate crime. problem is that the mainstream
18:24
media quite washes and the mainstream media accepts what uh
18:32
I hear to my uh surprise that a British commentary accepts that Tony Blair, this
18:39
arch criminal could play any role whatever. This man has zero credibility.
18:45
So this man is a war criminal. This man bears a huge responsibility for the
18:52
deaths of nearly a million uh Iraqis in a war that was totally
18:59
contrary to the United Nations, contrary to the UN charter. So I mean don’t try
19:05
to uh create a parallel world. I mean, we have international law and uh Donald
19:14
Trump uh has violated more fundamental
19:20
principles of international law and more uh articles, treaties uh than I can
19:28
think of. And uh so as I say the what bothers me is this atmosphere of
19:36
resignation that this is the best that you can get. No, this is not the best
19:41
that you can get. I mean the best that you can get is implementation of law and
19:46
the law is there and it is clear and uh I hope that the international court of
19:51
justice uh will finally come out with its uh judgment on South Africa against
19:59
Israel uh early next year 2026. Uh on the other hand, even the
20:05
international court of justice is under massive pressure uh by the United States
20:11
and they cave in in uh this year when they granted Israel an
20:17
extension uh to make a further memorial
20:23
uh uh on the case of South Africa against Israel so that the genocide
20:30
could go on. instead of saying this is a matter of highest urgency and we’re
20:35
coming down with our judgment now and uh well uh in any event what uh do I think
20:42
is the way forward the way forward is to uh break all commercial relations with
20:50
Israel to completely isolate Israel and uh to vindicate international law. I
20:58
mean, uh, Tony Blair back in 2003 together with another arch criminal
21:04
called George W. Bush, uh, did their little best to make the United Nations
21:11
irrelevant. Well, I remind you that uh, article 103 of the UN charter and the UN
21:19
charter is the best we have as a world constitution. Article 103 of the charter
21:26
says that all treaties, all agreements must be consistent, must be conform with
21:33
the United Nations charter kind of a conflict between agreements or treaties
21:40
or or peace proposals. They was made to conform with the United Nations charter.
21:49
And uh obviously uh this uh agreement this so-called peace agreement is not in
21:55
conformity uh as a matter of fact ignores the United Nations charter ignores hundreds of resolutions of the
22:03
general assembly hundreds of resolutions
22:09
of the security council. We do have several res resolutions of the security council which Israel has violated with
22:17
the complicity uh of the uh United States with the
22:22
complicity of the European countries. We here in the Geneva International Peace
22:28
Research Institute we have submitted not one but two
22:34
uh uh cases, legal briefs uh 32 pages to
22:40
the prosecutor of the international criminal court against the European
22:47
Commission against Ursuland Lion and Ka Kalas in complicity by providing
22:54
military, political, economic, diplomatic and propagandistic support to
23:01
a uh genocidal state. I mean, read the
23:06
last report submitted to the human rights council on the 16th of September uh of this year. The report submitted by
23:14
the former high commissioner for human rights, Na’vi Pelle. The 72page report
23:19
concluding that genocide has been committed and is being committed in uh
23:26
Israel and that Israel must stop that. But of course, as long as we tolerate
23:31
people like Tony Blair, as long as we tolerate uh people like Netanyahu and
23:37
Netanyahu is received in Washington in the Oval Office and speaks before the
23:43
Congress and as long as Netanyahu is received also in Hungary and speaks uh
23:48
with Victor Orin, we got a problem of credibility. We have zero credibility in
23:54
the West. We are complicit in the genocide and I don’t want to see it
24:00
whitewashed. I don’t want to see it reduced. A a collective of uh lawyers,
24:08
international lawyers in France have just submitted a case against Emanuel
24:13
Macron for complicity in the genocide. a uh collective of uh lawyers have done
24:20
the same thing uh in uh with regard to Melani Italy and another collective is
24:27
doing the same thing with regard uh to uh Fris melts that is international law
24:34
that is the way to go I mean we’re not going to say that uh 75 years of United
24:43
Nations resolutions and 75 years of u pronouncements of the general assembly
24:49
and the security council are meaningless and we’re going to accept uh this fraud
24:56
of a peace plan proposed uh by uh Trump and we’re going to just throw the United
25:01
Nations in the bin. We are totally irrelevant. Okay, if if that’s the way you want it, then we’re back we’re back
25:08
to the law of the jungle. I mean we civilization spends centuries trying to
25:16
uh develop the rule of law spent centuries trying to develop a system and
25:22
unfortunately this system has been hijacked. This system has been subverted. system has been penetrated.
25:30
But even Amnesty International and even the human rights uh watch organization
25:37
have uh strongly condemned uh the genocide and this kind of peace plan by
25:45
uh uh Trump basically condones it. And
25:50
uh so what uh say we applaud the uh
25:56
return of the last living hostages. We applaud the uh liberation of political
26:04
prisoners by Israel. We applaud the partial uh ceasefire. It is uh tragic uh
26:14
that 70,000 people have lost their lives uh in this genocidal campaign. That is
26:21
all uh to be uh welcomed. But we should not under any condition uh accept uh a
26:30
uh peace plan that simply uh makes the United Nations and international law
26:36
more irrelevant. Look, um, professor, we just have to, we got a limited time here, so I don’t mean to be rude by any
26:43
stretch of the imagination. Um, Frank, how does the peace plan allow pal Palestinians to govern in their own
26:50
interest? Yes. Um, uh, Alfred Alfred Des makes a
26:58
good point. um bringing the Palestinians in even though um you know of course um as
27:07
Shinfine in Ireland considered a terrorist group but as Mr. Zas says uh
27:15
the um the members of some members of Hamas had committed war crimes. It’s
27:21
true. And they were up for war crimes. And those uh um defendants have died.
27:27
But the main actors in this uh 20point plan are all war criminals. Um Tony
27:37
Blair, Mr. Trump, uh in particular, uh it’s almost like having uh the uh the
27:45
wolves take care of the, you know, protect the hens in the hen house. And then Kersner who used to work and he’s
27:52
working now with the Trump administration Middle East affairs is an entrepreneur who definitely has a con
28:00
conflict of interest in the land in Gaza. And he also seems to talk with
28:05
Trump, Mr. Trump a lot about um transforming Gaza into the um uh the
28:12
river era of the Middle East. Um we don’t have as as Mr. Z says we they do
28:19
not have none of these uh potential participants in the Gaza International
28:26
Transitional Association are have credibility and so therefore
28:31
it’s almost like it’s set up for failure and of course uh Netanyahu accused of
28:39
war crimes as far as um I as I mentioned to you Mike and you know this and to Mr.
28:44
is and um uh and that I am one of the
28:50
original lawyers who filed the complaint against Netanyahu,
28:55
this time against Lieberman and uh American President Obama and uh uh
29:00
President Trump and his former administration for war crimes know very well what the what has been done to to
29:10
make the accusation that these people have committed war crimes. So bringing back to your question really Mike uh
29:16
about uh not involving Palestinians um even though um as Mr.
29:24
says, “Yes, Hamas considered a um a terrorist group and also and and perhaps
29:31
connected with the Islam Brotherhood or not, but they h let’s look at what’s happening on the ground today. And if
29:39
they are willing, Hamas is willing to compromise and to set forth uh what it
29:46
can in good faith. again the the heads of Hamas have not been accused or
29:52
convicted of war crimes. The former heads Kanea and others have passed away.
29:57
Uh then let them proceed with this um this type of compromise that they could
30:04
they could make with the um the Gaza International Digital Authority and be
30:10
part of this authority to share this. It would be far more realistic to bring in
30:16
the Palestinians and particular Hamas more so than the PA and I know about the
30:23
the uh the PA from Ramala really work together. It’s almost like having another Israeli agent involved. If you
30:31
have Amud Abbas involved uh it it really does not according to the Palestinian
30:37
people be as representative of the Palestinian people at this point. Uh but
30:43
most Palestinians as in Gaza and in the West Bank, if you talk with them personally and I am on
30:49
the phone every day with people from Gaza and the West Bank say we really
30:54
want to have a normal peace, they don’t necessarily as the propaganda leads us
31:00
to believe that they don’t necessarily just want a Palestinian state at the exclusion of an Israeli state. uh that
31:07
is really mo many Palestinians to get beyond all the politics and the propaganda really want a normal life
31:13
would like to work together give in good faith this opportunity for Palestinians to be part of this peace process again
31:21
uh the way it’s set up with you know Netanyahu involved uh President Trump
31:28
you know and Tony Blair with their track records it is set up for failure and
31:34
they don’t have credibility And Mr. Heis is absolutely right. We need to have strong leaders with credibility that can
31:42
push this forward uh without these black back records and and and um and not
31:49
simply exclude Hamas from negotiations uh without thinking this through and
31:55
without even considering the fact that they have uh led us to believe that
32:00
they’re willing to compromise. Yeah. Adele, what do you think?
32:06
Well, there’s quite a lot to cover. Um, I agree with the professor Das that of
32:14
course the legal matters. I’m not international lawyer and historian
32:19
international law could defies but we need political outcome but you need
32:26
political compromise to implement a national law. And as I said, I have met
32:32
all the these people over the last 50 years. I recall once what the elite
32:38
sakrain said were the most intellectually honest
32:44
leader in Israel. I have come across through almost 50 years of covering this
32:49
tragic conflict. He once said that in Rabbat and once again repeatedly to me
32:55
in Jerusalem. Um that he wants to give that that he came round to
33:04
be convinced that you cannot actually have a settlement and peace without giving the Palestinians the rights.
33:11
Unfortunately, two days ago would be the 30th anniversary of Rabbin’s assassination by
33:19
a right-wing extremist uh nationalist settler or settlers movement there and
33:28
until we actually have another rabbin there then it would be very difficult.
33:34
Now how can we get another rabbin there? what the countries surround Israel and
33:42
I’m I’m I’m afraid I have to disagree that Hamas showing goodwill Hamas did
33:49
not actually come with a statement like the PL in 1988 which is to announcing violence and recognizing Israel to
33:55
exist. Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood who do not um recognize Israel right to
34:00
exist and come around this uh to this in in in a minute. The people in the
34:07
neighboring countries of Israel have not actually accepted or realized that Israel is a democracy.
34:15
You have to have the numbers of voters to actually vote out Netanyahu and the
34:21
lunatics and the government and get people. I repeat again 7th of October
34:27
has actually not only 7th of October the history itself have proven that I
34:33
explain why between 1948 and that six day war we had 19 years Israel was not
34:40
in Gaza Gaza was administered by Egypt Israel was not in the West Bank West
34:46
Bank was administered by Jordan had the Palestinian wished to have a state of
34:52
their own why they did not establish a state of their on because you had k Nasser in Egypt and you have the
35:00
pressure internally in Jordan and in Syria and so on. They were not
35:05
interested in implementing the United Nations resolution 1947 by creating an
35:11
independent Palestinian state but the destruction of Israel by the slogan
35:16
creation of Palestine. So, so that’s actually history itself. Let’s go to the second stage.
35:23
I visited Arafat. I knew Arafat personally. I knew everyone personally in the region because I was a I was a
35:28
reporter in the region. I visited Arafat several times there. Gaza had its own
35:34
airport. I went there in private jets there. Negotiated with Arafat. I sat
35:39
down with Arafat several times in Gaza. They had the opportunity there. They had
35:45
their own airport. They put the code on it. They had opportunity. What they did the corruption there. the they the the
35:52
they created the culture of dependency on the world to finance Gaza through
35:58
donation and through ona and so on and the money was siphoned with sort of
36:03
became very rich the below and Palestinian leaders and the end Hamas
36:09
had the coup and take them out Israel actually with after Israel withdraw
36:15
its fire from it come to southern Lebanon Israel withdraw from southern Lebanon
36:21
rockets fired from southern and again I repeat what happened with 7th of October. Therefore there is accumulation
36:29
of experience within the Israeli public psyche within the Israeli voters memory
36:37
that and and the way the demographics are changing in Israel and the right-wing religious people there and
36:44
those settlers which actually settlers activities are actually criminal activities. Yes, I agree with with that.
36:51
But they with the demographic
36:56
changes in their favor within 10 years they would be the majority voters in Israel.
37:03
Now we have the Gulf states and we have some sane
37:09
dreams within the Arab world especially from the Gulf saying yes chance now we
37:15
can go and give them the gun. Unfortunately, it’s actually become far removed dream because of the experience
37:23
I’m talking about. And finally, we need
37:28
to have a partner in Israel. How to create a partner in Israel again
37:34
increasingly. Now if you take opium pers in Israel, pennium prison in Israel, the
37:39
people who actually want to put Netanyahu in jail and he should have been in jail in jail for breaking the
37:45
Israeli law and trying to change the constitution and all of that. Even the people who agree with that they support
37:52
the war aims in Gaza because what Hamas did in the 7th of October. So this is
37:57
the reality you are facing with and again on Tony Blair. Yes, but what is
38:03
the mechanism? What is the reality of actually putting Netanyahu in jail or
38:09
putting Tony Blair in jail? The professor wants to Yes, this is the
38:14
ideal world. We don’t live in the ideal world and I wanted elect Trump myself,
38:20
but he presented something that manages to for the first time press Israel, stop
38:26
the bloodshed, come up with a ceasefire. Let’s build on what’s there. But if if everyone public opinion whether in the
38:33
world or in the region or in Israel keeps sort of undermining Tony Blair undermining of people who want to move
38:41
forward then we’ll have no chance we’ll be back in square one. So what what what do we want? Do we want actually the war
38:48
to continue to continue or build on what’s going on now? And this is the reality as we face today. Again my
38:56
experience and I also covered the Gulf War for as well. the covered Afghanistan war. Tony Blair might be in
39:03
international court not the best person but he has got the the the power or or
39:10
the people in power who matter the people who can finance the peace process
39:16
matter and is really public opinion behind him and that is really unless we
39:22
change public opinion Netanyahu and his lord would be reelected once more and
39:27
that would be very very bad news for peace. Um Alfred um I saw you taking notes
39:34
there about to reply as a good lawyer should but um do you agree with um Adele
39:41
that if Netanyahu is reelected um it is a very bad thing. I think it’s a
39:46
terrible thing. But what’s your thoughts and how do I mean besides the notes you’re taking, you’re going to reply
39:52
back. Uh but also the the thought of of Netanyahu being reelected, it’s sort of
39:59
a it’s almost obscene, isn’t it? Of course, it’s obscene. It’s like saying, “Oh, let’s deal with Hitler and
40:07
let’s uh respect uh the will of the German people if Hitler is uh
40:12
reelected.” Now, come on. I mean, Israel is not a democratic state. Israel has a
40:21
press that is completely controlled. The Israeli public is subjected to daily uh
40:28
brainwashing. And I know a lot of Israelis that complain about the fact that they they have to read RT, they
40:37
have to read sputing, they have to read other sources of information because the
40:43
main uh the Jerusalem Post etc etc are giving them lies day in and day out. Now
40:51
I am an international lawyer. I insist on international law having meaning.
40:57
International law has meaning when it gets enforced. We have the highest
41:03
judicial instance of the United Nations, the International Court of Justice that has pronounced itself again and again.
41:11
They have the blueprint for peace. It’s very extensive, very clear what has to
41:17
be done in u Gaza. Why is not being done? Because we have criminals in the
41:22
White House. We have criminals in London and in Paris and in Berlin. That is the
41:30
problem. We have been thoroughly hijacked by so-called elites. But thank
41:37
God there are people who think differently. Uh Mr. Darwish talks about
41:44
uh realism. Well, I think that our greatest realist professor of
41:50
international relations is John Mershimer. And John Mheimer at the
41:56
University of Chicago has laid down uh point by point what to do about uh Gaza
42:04
the same thing. Jeffrey Saxs of uh Colombia University.
42:11
He is himself Jewish and he says that Netanyahu has been the downfall of
42:17
Israel and Israel will never be able to survive the collective guilt that has
42:24
been imposed on the Israeli people because of this ultimate crime of
42:29
genocide. I find that uh the United Nations bears enormous responsibility
42:35
because the United Nations created this monster called the state of Israel. At
42:42
the time that it was accepted to membership in the United Nations in
42:47
1949, there were conditions and the conditions were that it would respect
42:54
uh its borders and not continually expand and expand and expand and engage
42:59
in aggressions against all of its neighbors. state in the resolution that
43:04
Israel was a so-called peace loving state states in the text of the
43:12
resolution and that it commits itself to implement uh all of the decisions and to work in
43:19
cooperation with the United Nations. No country has violated more resolutions of
43:26
the United Nations than Israel. And it’s a question of perception. was the
43:31
question of public relations. There’s a huge public relations selling you Tony
43:37
Blair as somebody credible. But again, public relations can uh completely
43:43
change uh perception and of course influence democratic decisions. Now as a
43:51
United Nations official that I was for decades uh I am a believer in the
43:56
importance of the trusteeship council. I think that uh Israel as a state is a
44:04
failed state and Israel must be the whole thing must be looked again
44:11
seriously. I would like to see the trusteeship council,
44:16
which still exists, be reactivated, declare this entire area uh of Israel
44:25
an international area and that will be managed by the United Nations until
44:31
there is peace and it will be managed according to the uh judgments and the
44:38
resolutions of the uh international court of justice. Otherwise, why do we
44:44
have an international court of justice? Why do we have a system of law? You’re going to take the whole law and just put
44:51
it in the bin. And I mean, I am quite concerned about the erosion of uh the
44:58
concept uh of the rule of law. We are tolerating
45:04
uh not only half measures, we’re tolerating the subversion of the very
45:10
concept of legality. Now they are good people. Here you have uh the late uh
45:19
Jimmy Carter whom I personally knew and respected. He wrote in 2006 a very good
45:26
book Palestine peace not aparttheid. He also wrote in 2009 this very good book
45:33
uh we can have peace uh in the holy land that that is a uh a viable
45:42
uh blueprint for peace. This by the way is another viable blueprint for peace.
45:48
The one state solution by professor Virginia Tilly. Now, if you don’t want
45:55
to have two states, okay, we will have a one-state solution. You will bring back
46:02
all of the millions of Palestinians who were expelled uh and lived outside the
46:09
borders uh of Palestine. You will have a state with a
46:15
Palestinian majority and Israel will have to abide by all the treaties that
46:22
it has uh ratified. The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights,
46:28
the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the Convention on the Rights of the Child,
46:35
the International Convention uh against uh racial discrimination, which it
46:40
systematically violates. I mean, Israel is a terrorist
46:45
state. Israel is a rogue state. And it is only the propaganda that we get in
46:52
the New York Times, in the Washington Post, in the Wall Street Journal and CNN, even in BBC that tries to tell us
46:59
that it is the only democratic country in the Middle East. It is all propaganda. It is all public relations.
47:06
And if we don’t change our perception, the whole world is going to be blown up
47:12
sooner or later. So we have to go back and agree there is one common
47:18
denominator. The common denominator is the United Nations charter. The United Nations charter has the supremacy clause
47:26
article 103. And we will have to live according to the uh this world
47:33
constitution and as I said revive the uh trusteeship council and reorganize uh
47:42
Israel. I mean this is the moment to do so. I mean if genocide
47:47
if the commission of genocide is not enough uh to say we have to
47:54
go back to square one because this Zionist uh um project this European
48:01
colonization in the midst of the Muslim world was a bad idea from day one. And
48:09
the only reason why this occurred is this enormous sympathy, and I share that
48:17
sympathy because I’ve known a a lot of Holocaust survivors. After the
48:22
Holocaust, you wanted to do something for the Palestinians, for the Palestinians, for the Israelis, but you
48:28
cannot do it at the expense uh of the Palestinians. That is what
48:34
concerns me. I mean, the Palestinians are not guilty of what Nazis did. what
48:39
Europeans did to European Jews. That’s also another thing.
48:44
Zionist, 90% of the of the Zionists, 90% of the Israelis are not Semites, are not
48:53
from this part of the world. They’re all Europeans. Nathaniel has Polish roots.
48:59
The others have Russian, Ukrainian, Lithuanian, Estonian uh roots. They are
49:05
Europeans. They’re colonizers. Exactly as the European colonizers in South
49:12
Africa that thought that they could come go in there, take all the land, take all
49:17
the water, take everything that’s valuable for us, for us, for us. Who cares? These Palestinians, they’re
49:24
intermission, as the Nazis would say. Now, I don’t wish again, I’m not trying
49:29
to cut anybody short. We we do have limited time, and I’ll be here till midnight, our time, if we keep going. Uh
49:35
but by the way, the the conversation, the information is uh just brilliant. Um Frank, can you um just tell me um if
49:43
we’re looking at um the peace plan, Donald Trump’s peace plan? Two questions I have for you. Um and if we all can
49:50
just keep keep it a bit briefer to about three or four minutes, that would be great. Thanks. If you wouldn’t mind. Um
49:55
how does a peace plan allow Palestinians to govern um in their own interest and
50:02
who will pay for it? Um, and what about the con the reconstruction of Gaza? Who
50:08
is going to dictate on how that should look? Yes. Um, first of all, I’ I’d like to uh
50:17
just make a quick comment about what Alfred has said. Um, according to the
50:22
peace plan, uh, uh, if, if, if we were to shift a bit of that peace plan, um,
50:29
and allow Palestinians be part of the, uh, Gaza International Transitional
50:35
Association, um, then, um, we we can then find the
50:40
funding. If we allow them to be a part of it, they’re not going to dominate it. They’ll just be a part of this. Uh and
50:46
and since they seem to have credibility, as Alfred has said, uh they um you know
50:52
uh have not committed war crimes in this whole mess where all the other actors that have been suggested by Mr. Trump
50:58
have. Um that would give that would give them a say, a partial say and then of
51:04
course we’ll have other actors a part of this group that would be governing this
51:09
transitional process. Now the um uh funding of course as Mr. Trump has
51:15
suggested um there are several sources of funding in particular some of the Gulf states that have a direct interest
51:22
in trying to overcome uh especially the uh countries like Behran and uh even as far as we can talk
51:31
about Morocco which is outside the Gulf country but that was part of uh the
51:36
normalization process uh the UAE and so forth that could fund this to sort of
51:42
overcome the fact that day before November nomber 7th were normalizing and then November 7th came and they pulled
51:48
back from it. That is a suggestion that Mr. Trump made but I want to just add
51:53
quickly and and give the place to other speakers when Alfred said however international law needs to be respected.
52:00
If you look at the 20point plan one of the most important parts of it was to bring in humanitarian aid and it was
52:06
said that at least 600 trucks need to come in. talking about international law, the international court of justice
52:12
in 2024 as part of that same case that South
52:17
Africa brought for genocide against Israel that is still pending that it made a provisional measure which is
52:23
binding and that is uh the um state of Israel cannot impede the flow of
52:28
humanitarian aid in to Gaza. So the compliance with the 20point plan is
52:35
pretty much out the door. very few trucks I think you know maybe less than a hundred were allowed in far fewer than
52:42
what’s needed and I guess and then also as I was on the Angula as well as the
52:49
global sword botilla we were legally bringing in humanitarian aid and going
52:55
through this blockade which according to the provisional measure is illegal because it impedes the flow of
53:01
humanitarian aid. Uh so there so tying it all together Mike um as far as uh
53:08
financing uh this project the 20 plan deal and and you know getting the Palestinians
53:14
involved I think the PA would not be the right solution because they have pretty well collaborated with Israel um maybe a
53:23
maybe a mixture of of the PA and the Hamas together but complying with international law is fundamental and so
53:30
far with the continuing breaking the the ceasefire and not especially complying
53:36
with bringing in humanitarian aid is in violation of that international court of justice decision and also not even in
53:42
compliance with the 20point plan that front forward.
53:47
Um Adele um the the part of the problem or the indeed a great problem because uh
53:54
Alfred had some very good points and says you and I agree with the uh with
53:59
with what he’s saying about the UN but the UN is highly ineffective. Its
54:05
inability to enforce its resolutions um I mean it’s just words how do we fix
54:11
that? And I I know Alfred’s going to want to come in in a second, but Adele, if you could just in your own in your
54:17
own opinion, how do we fix because the the UN is ineffective in many cases,
54:22
especially this time? Yes, it’s ineffective. And I I I again
54:28
hear how can we implement the international law. professor mention it if you
54:36
actually if his start point is dismantling the state of Israel he actually saying is Israel independence
54:44
with a mistake I mean wanted to have one state for all but then the Arabs
54:51
rejected uh the partition plan of the two-state solution and again I repeat
54:57
that again it was Egypt and and her her Arab allies who actually broke the
55:04
international law by launching a war to to wipe Israel off the map. So how how
55:12
how actually if international lawyer is saying that Israel is a mistake
55:18
shouldn’t exist there make argument about the demographics although there’s a lot of safarim and Jews who were
55:25
actually expelled from Egypt and expelled from Arab countries who
55:31
actually some live in Israel some live in the diaspora uh if actually you are telling public opinion world public
55:37
opinion and tell public opinion you shouldn’t exist How can you actually implement
55:43
international law? And again, I I repeat again and I think I mentioned it on your
55:49
program or I can’t remember I mentioned it or not. Have we ever heard of Antifa in Jericho? Have we ever heard of travel
55:55
in Jericho? No. Why? Because they are joint Israeli and Palestinian
56:02
ventures like casinos and hotels and so on and both sides are benefiting from
56:08
it. So it’s again and that’s where where the Trump plan might not be ideal but at
56:13
least if you have a commercial enterprise that benefits everyone then that is a such starter from there you
56:20
can again I I I just I keep repeating myself the solution is I’ve seen by the Israeli
56:28
public who actually can vote a government that would compromise accept peace bring another rabbin in and a
56:36
coalition for peace If in their point of view the United Nation is actually
56:44
against as Israel for whatever reason it is. The professor kept repeating
56:50
perception. The perception in public opinion in Israel is that the United Nation is against them. not only created
56:57
culture of dependency on and out in Gaza
57:03
especially in Gaza and the West Bank but it also the some of its work as whether
57:09
it’s true or not the perception was actually uh committed the crimes of 7th
57:15
of October 2023 the there’s no clear statement from the
57:20
Islamic movement the Hamas part of it that actually accept Israel right exist
57:26
and so on. So if we’re talking about perception and again we like it or not you might not accept it as a democracy
57:33
might suggest it is actually propaganda. Well, the reality is they elect their
57:39
government. You have to give them the perception and the tool and the asurances that if they elect government
57:47
for peace, this is a department for peace on the other side. This is what the I’m sorry I keep repeating myself
57:55
here that I’m I’m absolutely totally astounded by the professor actually
58:01
claim that he wants Israel not to exist in its form. Now the Arabs themselves
58:08
although they didn’t accept the the partition plan they didn’t give the Palestinian independent statement they
58:15
had they had the chance do so for 19 years and Naser started the 1967 war
58:23
1956 crisis every single war was actually started by the Arabs and are the result
58:30
of another war started by by the Arabs. So let’s actually get real uh the we
58:36
have to create a condition of electing a government in Israel that would accept
58:42
the presence of a United Nation would accept the trucks going in and so on.
58:47
Um we are excuse me we are running out of time. Um so um write a reply for
58:55
Alfred Professor Alfred Deas and then I I have a final question for everybody.
59:00
Um, I don’t mind, by the way, going over. So, uh, I’m not going to put it a dead stop on this conversation because
59:06
it is important and I think what we’re doing is we’re doing what they couldn’t do for a long time and that was talk and
59:14
communicate and swap ideas and all of you are highly credentialed. So, um, I
59:20
think you all have great points to make. Uh, Professor Desas, how what would you say uh and a rep and a right of reply to
59:27
Adele? And do you think we will ever see peace in the Middle East in particular
59:34
with uh Israel involved? Well, certainly not uh with Mr.
59:40
Netanyahu. It’s impossible to make peace with Netanyahu. Certainly not as long as uh Trump and
59:48
Kushner and this crowd uh is in Washington. They don’t want peace. Uh
59:54
they want to uh cement uh the apartheid state called Israel. Now in my book
1:00:03
building a just world order I have an entire chapter devoted to the
1:00:10
right of uh self-determination theory and practice how to implement but to
1:00:17
implement international law you need goodwill and goodwill is a very rare
1:00:22
commodity goodwill is not in Washington London
1:00:29
Paris or Berlin in uh goodwill is in
1:00:35
the BRICS countries. Goodwill is in the global majority in the global south and
1:00:42
they should weigh in in the peace uh in the Middle East.
1:00:48
I endorse much of what Dr. Romano said. I have uh great problems with uh the uh
1:00:58
narrative of uh Mr. Darwish uh because I think here uh fake news and fake history
1:01:07
have flowed into fake law. And the fact
1:01:12
is that Israel owes everything to the United Nations. It’s not that the United
1:01:18
Nations is against Israel. The United Nations made a gift to Israel to accept
1:01:26
a colonial state in the midst of the Arab countries. And when I said now here
1:01:33
uh fake news, I mean it’s been debunked many many times uh that the war in 1967
1:01:43
uh was started by the Arabs. No, it wasn’t. And the uh fact is that Israel
1:01:51
has been a an aggressor state since day one. And let’s go back uh uh to the
1:02:00
creation of uh Israel in 1947. First the partition plan and secondly the murder
1:02:08
by Zionist terrorists of the UN envoy uh Fula Dadote and the uh blowing up of the
1:02:18
uh King David hotel by Zen Zionist terrorist etc. It was a terrorist state
1:02:25
from day one. But again, the perception, the public relations has sold us Israel
1:02:32
in rose color. Has sold us Israel as, shall we say, us as the good guys. Well,
1:02:40
this is a reversal of the roles of who is the perpetrator and who is the
1:02:48
victim, who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. Now the Palestinians have
1:02:54
been there for millennia and now Israel says the Palestinians
1:02:59
don’t exist but they exist the Europeans who came uh from Europe in uh the 1940s
1:03:06
and50s. Now this is a rape uh of history
1:03:11
and by the way I have a PhD in history and I also teach history at uh
1:03:17
university not only uh international law. I go back uh to my demand that we
1:03:24
revisit uh the creation of the state of Israel and that’s why I say in this
1:03:30
context because it failed because the creation of the state of Israel only
1:03:36
unleashed a series of wars against Lebanon and Jordan and Syria and Egypt
1:03:43
and all of its neighbors. It was a failed state. It was a bad idea. So
1:03:49
let’s have the trusteeship council go back uh to uh the uh Palestine mandate,
1:03:57
retake the Palestine mandate and then have a one-state solution whereby uh the
1:04:04
uh Palestinians will build uh the majority and uh the Israelis will have
1:04:10
to live together in peace without aparttheid without humiliating the
1:04:18
Palestinian ians on a daily basis without destroying their ver uh orchards, without having settlers go
1:04:25
into Palestinian villages and and kill uh Palestinians. I mean, as I say,
1:04:31
public relations perception, we have been brainwashed uh into believing that
1:04:38
uh Israel is the good guy. And that’s why we accept it. That’s how we the
1:04:44
masses in uh the United States or in Europe accept uh Israel. But what an
1:04:51
irony that a country uh that owes its existence to the Holocaust, a country
1:04:59
that owes its existence to the Nazi genocide against uh the Jews would now
1:05:07
80 years later be the principal genocide perpetrator in the world. Now that
1:05:16
should make you think. It should also make you think of General Assembly
1:05:21
resolution 3379 of the 10th of November uh 1975.
1:05:29
That was a resolution Zionism is a form of racism. This is a resolution that was
1:05:37
correct at the time because in its very essence Zionism is the idea of we Jews a
1:05:44
state only for the Jews and for nobody else. That’s why apartheid is too soft a
1:05:51
word to refer to Israel. And this resolution 3379 was removed
1:05:59
almost fraudulently uh in uh 1991,
1:06:04
16 years later when Israel was waving the olive branch and indicating that it
1:06:11
was ready to accept uh the Palestinian state. That was just before the
1:06:17
conference in Madrid. And what happened? Nothing. Things got even worse for the
1:06:22
Palestinians. But of course, they got rid of resolution 3379.
1:06:29
So my proposal, let’s revisit 3379 and make it stronger.
1:06:36
Yeah. Um we we have run out of time, but what I’m going to do is just ask you, I need to um because the the the the whole
1:06:44
conversation was um what’s going to happen basically in the future. Um and
1:06:50
I’ll start with you uh Frank if you don’t mind. What is needed for longlasting peace in the region besides
1:06:57
honesty which obviously um the that part has been left out of the equation on many occasions.
1:07:04
Well, if we were able to, first of all, I either the one state or
1:07:11
the two state, but let’s just say let’s try the two state for now. And uh
1:07:16
there’s um either would be in Gaza or in the West Bank or or or connected the
1:07:23
West Bank and Gaza to have the Palestinian state. If that were the case, then Hamas would have very little
1:07:30
power because Hamas feed on this conflict. If the Palestinians have their
1:07:38
place, they have their country, then they’re not going to be saying they’re,
1:07:43
you know, we’re being attacked now and and Hamas is not going to use that to recruit people to defend all of
1:07:49
Palestine, whether it be Gaza or even the West Bank because Hamas is involved in the West Bank as well. And the
1:07:55
contrary is also true, Mike. If for instance, you know, Israel will have its
1:08:01
state. I would say it was the state of Israel, not a Jewish state because you’ve got 20% non-Jews living in
1:08:07
Israel, but Israelis have their states. Then the far right Mol Ben Gabir would
1:08:13
have far less uh leverage because they say do the same thing. They say we need
1:08:19
to be in power because we are defending Israel. We’re offending the Jews against anti-semites, in particular Hamas, from
1:08:27
attacking us. If Jews have their own state and the Palestinians have their own state, these two extremist groups
1:08:33
will have far less power and it will usher in the possibility in Palestine,
1:08:39
for instance, other political groups that would be more liberal. I wouldn’t say the PA, but more representative
1:08:46
groups of the Palestinian people because they have their own state. And the contrary, the the Israelis once they
1:08:53
have their own state and it’s defined and the Palestinians have their state, then this new uh generation will usher
1:09:00
in a whole new group of people because Netanyahu as well as Smaltric and Ben Gabir feed on conflict and they say
1:09:08
we’re the ones that need to be elected. Loot party needs to be elected because we’re the only ones that defend the
1:09:13
Israeli people. Be careful. and they pull the chain of conflict and they get elected. And so I believe that is one
1:09:21
solution uh with the you know and would would also temper the leverage of these
1:09:27
extremist groups if we have a Palestinian state and an Israeli state.
1:09:33
Um thank you for that Frank Adele. What is needed for longlasting peace in the
1:09:38
region? Well, I actually agree with with Frank here that if you remove the exclusive
1:09:45
conflict from the ideology of conflicts like Hamas or like the
1:09:51
extreme right-wing uh trend in Israel. Uh that would be a possibility. Yes,
1:09:57
agree there. However, how to create these conditions? Again I here if we
1:10:04
actually hear a former official of the United Nation and respected
1:10:11
international lawyer saying let’s revisit the creation of Israel Israel shouldn’t exist and so on. Uh there
1:10:19
would be a problem here with the convincing the Israeli public opinion to
1:10:26
elect a partner for peace because the the electoral system in Israel is not
1:10:31
like we have here in Britain. You don’t actually have a clear government and opposition sitting opposite side in in
1:10:39
parliament. It’s always a coalition there. So without actually creating this condition that because if you go back to
1:10:45
actually predating the Israel predating the Holocaust I’m talking about 1936
1:10:51
1929 when there were actually Jews who actually lived in the area was an Ottoman vat then it became
1:10:59
a mandate administered and there were massacres by Muslims
1:11:05
Husseini and so on associated with the Muslim Brotherhood there. So that that’s actually a memory you cannot take it
1:11:12
from the people’s mind that again you actually need to create this condition
1:11:18
create economic condition that benefit both sides and get is public opinion
1:11:24
enough not you know to convince everyone in in in this proportion representation system
1:11:32
you have to have enough weight of electorate who would believe in that
1:11:38
without actually hearing statements like let’s dismantle Israel, let’s revisit the creation of Israel
1:11:46
and and then and that should be also accepted in the countries that matter
1:11:51
Jordan and Egypt and Syria surrounding Israel the Gulf states are pragmatic
1:11:57
they are trade people they are coming some mentality like Trump’s mentality so they actually held the creating the
1:12:04
economic conditions that benefit both sides but without that I’m afraid I’m not very optimistic.
1:12:11
Um, thank you for that Adele. Appreciate it. Um, as we as our final comment from
1:12:17
uh the panel, Professor Alfred Des, can you just tell me what is needed to
1:12:25
achieve truth, goodwill, good faith, honesty, and it’s
1:12:32
all missing. uh we still live uh in a world of cognitive dissonance. We are
1:12:41
expected to believe uh narratives uh and myths about uh the state of Israel and
1:12:50
uh some of my colleagues are uh accused of being anti-Semites because they say
1:12:56
obvious things uh like the Balfur declaration
1:13:02
uh being uh essentially an imperialist colonialist uh idea and uh the creation
1:13:12
of an apartheid state uh in uh Israel being uh accepted and they being sold to
1:13:20
everybody as a uh democratic country. Now uh we have blueprints for peace and
1:13:28
uh already uh Jimmy Carter in his book we can have peace uh in the holy land if
1:13:36
there had been any goodwill at the time and they had taken uh Jimmy Carter seriously there would have been chance
1:13:44
uh for peace. I am not so sure of that. That is why I think that in the current
1:13:50
situation uh the trusteeship council should take responsibility for the area
1:13:57
uh that used to be the Palestine uh mandate and I recommend to our
1:14:05
viewers to read uh Noam Chomsky’s and Elan Papy’s book uh Gaza in uh crisis
1:14:13
and for the analysis of the international law situation. Uh the late
1:14:19
uh Francis Boil’s book, Palestine, Palestinians and uh international law. I
1:14:26
think the uh solution has to be based on on international law. You cannot
1:14:32
sidestep the international court of justice. You cannot sidstep uh the
1:14:38
United Nations. As I said, the United Nations has the primary responsibility for the creation of the state uh of
1:14:46
Israel. And uh one thing that I have said in some of my uh articles is that
1:14:53
pursuant to article six of the United Nations charter, a state that systematically
1:15:01
violates the UN charter and systematically acts contrary to the
1:15:06
purposes and principles of the organization can be expelled. That is
1:15:12
the general assembly could do this. But uh my disappointment uh being a realist
1:15:19
and seeing who is running uh countries like I mean Cece uh I mean you think
1:15:26
Cece is a credible person who is uh running uh
1:15:32
the Arab world who is running Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Qatar and the United
1:15:38
Arab uh Emirates etc etc is not just a failure o of the west and of Of course,
1:15:45
we are morally bankrupt uh in the west. It’s not just the failure of Washington
1:15:51
and London and Paris and Berlin. It is the failure of the organization of the
1:15:57
Islamic Conference. It is the failure uh and the inaction of the Arab League on
1:16:05
behalf of the Palestinians. I mean, the silence is deafening when it comes uh to
1:16:11
the uh uh war crimes. crimes against humanity and genocide committed by
1:16:17
Israel against the Palestinians over 80 years now and uh it’s essentially been
1:16:24
tolerated. Why? Because they’re all making money because they’re all doing
1:16:29
business. They are like uh Mr. Trump
1:16:34
transactional. They are business people. They just want to make money. As long as
1:16:40
this is the mentality uh uh that governs, we’re not going to have uh
1:16:45
peace in Palestine. I would like to see now I’m sure that uh
1:16:53
uh it’s a dream and I’m sure that uh Jeffrey Sachs would call it a nightmare.
1:16:59
I would say let’s have a United Nations administration in the territory of
1:17:06
Palestine. Uh, let us have Jeffrey Saxs, Professor Jeffrey Saxs from Columbia
1:17:12
University, a great American and a great Jew. Let’s have him as the administrator. Thank you.
1:17:19
Thank you. Thank you very much. I have to say much appreciated to uh, Professor Alfred
1:17:24
Desarish and Dr. Frank Romano. You’ve all been
1:17:30
very kind and you keep coming back to us. So, thank you so much. I appreciate that. Um just reminding tomorrow night
1:17:37
uh or tomorrow morning in the UK uh we’ll be looking at I think one of the great celebrity game show host of the
1:17:44
future in the making and that’s Nigel Farage. Uh will he and reform save the
1:17:50
UK and I hear some chuckling in the background but true that’s what maybe what he should do and I’m sure um if we
1:17:56
gave um Alfred another 10 10 minutes he’d also get into him also. U thank you
1:18:02
thank you very much gentlemen. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Uh if you want a bit of a chuckle
1:18:07
tomorrow night, I’m sure it will be a bit of a chuckle, but it’s it’s also very serious because tomorrow we’re
1:18:13
talking about the I think it’s an illusion. It’s a smoke mirrors and um I
1:18:18
don’t see any credible opposition at the moment in the UK. Not saying that Labor
1:18:24
are any good. I think they’re appalling. But you need good opposition and not a
1:18:29
celebrity game show host. Thank you so much gentlemen. This is uh the world
1:18:34
today and this has been the protagonist. [Music]
1:18:45
[Applause] [Music]
oooooo
NATO IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION
From dezayasalfred.wordpress.com
ooo
NATO IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION
(https://dezayasalfred.wordpress.com/2025/11/22/nato-is-a-criminal-organization/)
November 22, 2025
NATO IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION
L’OTAN*
Alejandro Teitelbaum
I. L’OTAN existe depuis la signature du traité de l’Atlantique Nord, le 4 avril 1949. A ses 12 membres fondateurs adhérèrent quatre autres États entre 1952 y 1982[1]. Compte actuellement avec 32 États membres, depuis l’adhesion de Finlande en abril 2023 et la Suéde en mars 2024, et plusiers “partenaires”: l’Afghanistan, l’Australie, la Colombie, l’Iraq, le Japon, la République de Corée, la Mongolie, la Nouvelle-Zélande et le Pakistan.
L’OTAN, créée comme un gendarme mondial destiné à prévenir par la violence toute tentative au niveau national de sortir du système capitaliste, est désormais la force militaire du bloc occidental « démocratique » (mais plein d´États autoritaires) dans la géopolitique planétaire.
L’OTAN peut être définie comme une organisation criminelle multi-étatique dirigée par le gouvernement américain et gérée par le Pentagone et la Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) des États-Unis, qui commet de manière répétée des violations des droits de l’homme, des crimes de guerre et des crimes contre l’humanité à l’échelle internationale en toute impunité, avec la participation directe d’organisations terroristes et mafieuses.
Le premier Secrétaire Général des Nations unies, Trygve Lie, avait déjà déclaré à propos de l’OTAN que “si les gens acceptent que des alliances régionales remplacent la sécurité collective, l’espoir d’une paix durable sera sérieusement compromis”[2].
Il convient d’ajouter que la composition du Conseil de sécurité – inchangé depuis 78 ans – avec ses cinq membres permanents disposant d’un droit de veto, constitue un obstacle majeur à la création d’un système mondial de sécurité collective.
Avec la disparition du bloc soviétique [3] et du Pacte de Varsovie de 1955, dissous en 1991, on pensait que l’OTAN disparaîtrait également, mais ce le contraire qui s’est produit : quinze pays européens ont rejoint l’OTAN, dont le nombre de membres est passé de 16 à 31, complétant ainsi un encerclement étroit autour de la Russie et de la Chine [4].
L’action de l’OTAN, qui était théoriquement défensive, est devenue clairement offensive et a dépassé les territoires de ses États membres.
II. L’ELARGISSEMENT DE L’OTAN A ÉTÉ D’ABORD ET AVANT TOUT UNE AFFAIRE POUR LES PLUS GRANDS MANUFACTURIERS D’ARMES AMÉRICAINS, car les nouveaux États membres devaient s’adapter aux “normes” militaires de l’OTAN et moderniser leurs armements en les achetant aux États-Unis.
En 1996, le Comité américain sur l’élargissement de l’OTAN, une organisation privée regroupant des personnalités politiques influentes et d’anciens responsables ayant des liens avec Lockheed Martin et le Gouvernement des États-Unis en faveur de l’intégration des pays d’Europe de l’Est dans l’OTAN , a été créée pour faire pression auprès des dirigeants de ces États pour promouvoir l’achat d’équipements militaires auprès des usines d’armement américaines [5].
III.La transition de l’OTAN vers un statut d’offensive extraterritoriale a marqué le début de sa participation à des agressions armées caractérisées par la violation systématique de la Déclaration universelle des droits de l’homme, des Pactes internationaux relatifs aux droits civils et politiques , d’autres conventions internationales relatives aux droits de l’homme et du droit humanitaire international contenu dans les Conventions de Genève de 1949 et leurs Protocoles additionnels de 1977.
Les deux dernières décennies ont vu la guerre du Golfe (plusieurs dizaines de milliers de morts civils), la guerre contre la Yougoslavie [6], la guerre contre l’Irak [7] (plusieurs centaines de milliers de morts civils) et la guerre en Afghanistan [8].
L’intervention des grandes puissances pour mettre fin aux violations des droits de l’homme en Yougoslavie a conduit aux accords d’octobre 1998 qui ont permis le déploiement de 1300 observateurs civils dans la région, mais les parties au conflit ne respectaient que partiellement les accords. Lors de la réunion de Rambouillet, au début de 1999, il était difficile de progresser vers un règlement pacifique jusqu’à l’arrivée de Madeleine Albright, secrétaire d’État de Clinton, qui a mis fin aux négociations et l’OTAN a immédiatement commencé à bombarder la Yougoslavie, dont les 1300 observateurs internationaux ont dû s’échapper sous une grêle de bombes “humanitaires”.
La conséquence de ces activités de l’OTAN et/ou de certains de ses États membres (principalement les États-Unis, la France et la Grande-Bretagne) a été la dislocation de plusieurs États, le déplacement de millions de personnes dans une détresse totale et son “effet secondaire”, la “crise migratoire” avec ses milliers de morts noyés.
En mai 1999, un groupe international d’avocats, dont l’auteur de cette note faisait partie, présenta une plainte -dont le redacteur principal fut le professeur canadien Michael Mandel[9]– pour crimes de guerre contre les chefs des gouvernements des pais membres de l’OTAN auprès du Tribunal pénal international pour l’ex-Yougoslavie. Les atrocités commises contre la population civile sont détaillées dans une annexe à la plainte (www.eroj.org/urbiorbi/Yugoslavia/mandel.htm). Le 2 juin 2000, la procureure Carla del Ponte a informé le Conseil de sécurité qu’elle avait décidé de ne pas ouvrir d’enquête sur les allégations contre l’OTAN. Cette décision a été sévèrement critiquée, entre autres, par le professeur Antonio Cassese, qui était le premier président du Tribunal .
IV. LES PRÉCÉDENTS IMMÉDIATS.
1943 – Les États-Unis débarquent en Europe pour y rester.
Lorsque l’armée américaine débarque en Sicile en 1943 pendant la Seconde Guerre mondiale, le gouvernement militaire allié des territoires occupés (AMGOT), dirigé par le colonel américain Charles Poletti, a travaillé en étroite collaboration avec la mafia et les propriétaires fonciers siciliens pour contrôler la nouvelle administration civile, empêcher les communistes d’accéder aux fonctions publiques et combattre par tous les moyens le mouvement croissant des paysans sans terre, comme l’illustre le massacre perpétré contre les paysans de Portella della Ginestra [10].
Années 1970-80 – L’OTAN et la “stratégie de la tension” en Italie
Les années 1970 et 1980 ont été marquées par une série d’attentats terroristes en Italie, notamment ceux de la Piazza Fontana à Milan en décembre 1969 (17 morts et 90 blessés), à Brescia le 25 mai 1974 (8 morts et 102 blessés), dans le train Italicus le 4 août 1974 (12 morts et 45 blessés) et dans la Gare de Bologne le 2 août 1980 (85 morts et 200 blessés).
L’objectif évident était de déstabiliser les institutions démocratiques consolidées par le “compromis historique” entre les deux partis ayant la plus grande représentation nationale à l’époque, la Démocratie chrétienne et le Parti communiste, qui s’est terminé par l’assassinat – en 1978 par les Brigades rouges – du leader de la Démocratie chrétienne, Aldo Moro, l’un de ses promoteurs les plus déterminés.
L’historien Philippe Foro, auteur de “L’Affaire Moro” (Ed. Vendémiaire), écrit : “Mais le président de la Démocratie chrétienne avait aussi gagné de nombreux adversaires parmi ceux qui condamnaient sa politique de “compromis historique” avec le PCI : au sein de l’OTAN, des services secrets italiens, du monde politique…”.
Les services de renseignement italiens (dont les liens avec la CIA sont bien connus) à tout fait pour qu’Aldo Moro ne soit pas retrouvé vivant après son enlèvement par les Brigades rouges.
Aldo Moro, avec le compromis historique, a mis dans l’embarras la classe politique italienne (qui l’a abandonné à son sort) et a inquiété les États-Unis.
Des enquêtes judiciaires, dont celle du juge Guido Salvini, ont montré que des agents de la CIA avaient été impliqués dans les attentats de la Piazza Fontana, commis par des groupes d’extrême droite. Le juge Salvini a expliqué, dans une entrevue du 11 décembre 1999, qu’il avait décelé l’implication de la CIC, une des composantes de la CIA, chargée du domaine militaire. Dans une petite ferme d’un village de la campagne vénitienne nommé On, fonctionnait ce qu’on appela la « santabarbara » où : « Un agent infiltré des services américains, expert en explosif, y enseignait la fabrication de bombes. On y entrait sans rien et on en ressortait avec une bombe. Ce trafic était dirigé par un agent des services américains. ». L’enquête s’est poursuivie et il a été possible d’identifier l’homme qui a fabriqué la bombe : Carlos Digilio, recruté par l’US Office Strategic Service pendant la guerre et qui a continué à collaborer avec les services américains jusqu’en 1978, comme le souligne Salvini lui-même dans son livre La maledizione di Piazza Fontana. L’indagine interrotta. I testimoni dimenticati. La guerra tra i magistrati. Novembre 2019, pag 528.
Le tribunal de première instance, en charge du cas de l’attentat à la gare de Bologne, prononça le jugement en juillet 1988 qui condamnait, entre autres, Lucio Gelli, chef de la Loge Propagande 2, et deux membres du SISMI (le service de sécurité militaire italien). En juillet 1990, la chambre d’appel de Bologne, à la stupeur générale, annula la sentence de première instance.
Ferdinando Imposimato, avocat, magistrat et homme politique italien, président honoraire de la Cour de Cassation, s’est occupé, notamment, de la lutte contre la mafia, la camorra et le terrorisme. Il a fourni des preuves solides de l’implication de l’OTAN, par le biais de la CIA, de Gladio, de la mafia et de groupes terroristes, dans la stratégie de tension en Italie. « …de terribles meurtres et massacres avaient commencé, œuvre d’une structure secrète créée aux États-Unis par des puissances maçonniques, qui, par l’intermédiaire de la CIA (services secrets américains), qui utilisait la mafia italienne et le terrorisme, commettait des massacres et des assassinats de magistrats, de policiers, de carabiniers et le meurtre de citoyens innocents… En août 1990, le Premier ministre italien Giulio Andreotti révèle à la Chambre des députés l’existence d’une organisation paramilitaire, Gladio Stay Behind. La fonction officielle de Gladio, selon Andreotti, était de défendre l’Italie contre une éventuelle invasion de l’Union soviétique. Mais nous verrons que les objectifs étaient bien différents. Andreotti et le ministre de l’Intérieur Francesco Cossiga étaient les chefs du Gladio en Italie. La Commission parlementaire sur les exécutions extrajudiciaires a établi la vérité sur la véritable nature de cette mystérieuse association : Gladio – Stay Behind ne servait pas à défendre l’Italie contre une éventuelle invasion de l’Union soviétique ; il s’agissait d’une association illégitime dirigée par la CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) qui contrôlait les services secrets italiens et occidentaux. Tous les membres de Gladio avaient une habilitation de sécurité de l’OTAN. Mais l’OTAN était aussi l’entité d’où provenaient les explosifs utilisés pour tous les massacres commis en Italie ».(Traduit de l’italien).
(http://ferdinandoimposimato.blogspot.com)
La description détaillée de ces événements sanglants en Italie se trouve dans le livre de Ferdinando Imposimato, La Repubblica delle stragi impunite (Newton Saggistica) (édition italienne). 2012.
En novembre 2001, l’Ambassadeur Francis X. Taylor, coordinateur de la lutte anti-terroriste du Département d’Etat des Etats-Unis, écrivait ce qui suit : « Les alliés de l’OTAN ont décidé de fournir aux Etats-Unis la vaste gamme de mesures d’assistance que nous leur demandions, à savoir l’usage illimité de leur espace aérien, l’installation de bases, de ports maritimes, le soutien logistique, le renforcement de la sécurité des forces américaines en Europe, l’échange de renseignements et des avions équipés de systèmes d’alerte précoce. »
L’auteur ajoute « Nous utilisons des programmes de formation pour aider à
combattre le terrorisme à l’étranger et aider les Américains qui vivent et
voyagent à l’extérieur du pays. Le programme d’aide anti-terroriste (ATA) du
département d’Etat, dans le cadre duquel nous assurons la formation du
personnel étranger chargé de la sécurité et de l’application des lois, est l’un des principaux éléments de cet effort. Non seulement ce programme fournit une formation, mais il aide à promouvoir notre politique et à améliorer nos contacts avec les autorités étrangères afin de nous permettre d’atteindre nos objectifs contre le terrorisme. Nous avons déjà formé plus de 20’000 fonctionnaires de quelque cent pays. Nous espérons obtenir des fonds supplémentaires pour ce programme dans la foulée des attentats du 11 septembre, afin de pouvoir accélérer cette formation. (…) Nous avons également mis au point un programme pour intercepter les terroristes (TIP) qui utilise des systèmes de banques de données informatiques sophistiquées et des communications perfectionnées pour identifier les terroristes en puissance qui tentent de franchir des frontières internationales. Ce programme sera le plus efficace dans les pays qui sont d’importantes plaques tournantes en matière de transports.».
Le premier paragraphe du texte qui précède anticipe ce qui est devenu aujourd’hui de notoriété publique : le consentement des gouvernements européens à permettre ce qu’on a appelé les « vols secrets de la CIA », y compris l’utilisation de prisons secrètes dans quelques pays européens, entre autres, en Pologne et Roumanie [11].
VI. La CIA a apporté à l’OTAN son expertise en matière de coups d’État, d’assassinats de personnalités publiques[12] et d’autres crimes commis sur tous les continents. Quelques exemples :
– Coup d’État de 1953 en Iran contre le gouvernement du Dr Mossadegh, qui avait nationalisé le pétrole, allant ainsi à l’encontre des intérêts de l’Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.
-En 1954, une action militaire promue par les États-Unis et financé par la United Fruit a contraint le président constitutionnel du Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz, à démissionner.
-En 1973, le gouvernement constitutionnel du Chili a été renversé, entraînant la mort du président Salvador Allende, des milliers de morts et de disparus et des assassinats de personnalités civils et de chefs militaires fidèles au gouvernement.
L’implication de la société transnationale International Téléphone and Telegraph (ITT) dans la promotion et le financement du coup d’État a été amplement démontrée, tout comme l’implication directe du gouvernement américain et de sa Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)[13] .
-Lorsqu’Aristide a pris le pouvoir en Haïti en 1991, il a proposé d’augmenter le salaire minimum de 1,76 à 2,94 dollars par jour. L’Agence américaine pour l’investissement et le développement (USAID) a critiqué cette initiative, affirmant qu’elle entraînerait une grave distorsion du coût de la main-d’œuvre. Les sociétés d’assemblage américaines basées en Haïti (c’est-à-dire presque toutes les sociétés étrangères) ont accepté l’analyse de l’USAID et, avec l’aide de la Central Intelligence Agency, ont préparé et financé le coup d’État contre Aristide.
-L’appui logistique des Etats-Unis, aux activités terroristes perpétrés contre Nicaragua dans les années 1980, qui ont été l’objet d’une sentence condamnatoire prononcée par la Cour internationale de justice de La Haye le 26 juin 1986 : « Activités militaires et paramilitaires au Nicaragua et contre celui-ci dans le cas Nicaragua c. Etats-Unis d’Amérique » . La Cour a décidé que « les Etats-Unis d’Amérique, en entraînant, armant, équipant, finançant et approvisionnant les forces contras, et en encourageant, appuyant et assistant de toute autre manière des activités militaires et paramilitaires au Nicaragua et contre celui-ci, ont, à l’encontre de la République du Nicaragua, violé l’obligation que leur impose le droit international coutumier de ne pas intervenir dans les affaires d’un autre Etat. ». ( Affaire des Activités militaires et paramilitaires au Nicaragua et contre celui-ci (Nicaragua c. États-Unis d’Amérique), Arrêt du 27 juin 1986. https://www.icj-cij.org/fr/affaire/70.
-En Afrique, au moment de la décolonisation, des leaders tels que Patrice Lumumba, Kwame Nkrumah, Amilcar Cabral, Jomo Kenyatta et Tomas Sankara ont émergé, qui se sont battus pour une voie indépendante pour leurs peuples, à l’encontre des intérêts de l’ex-métropole et de ses grandes entreprises. Tous ont été renversés ou assassinés, comme Lumumba, Cabral et Sankara, et remplacés par des dirigeants dictatoriaux et corrompus fidèles aux grandes puissances néocoloniales.
——————
Bibliographie
Fernando Hernández Holgado. Historia de la OTAN. De la guerra fría al intervencionismo humanitario. Los libros de la Catarata. Madrid, 2000.
Danièle Ganser, Les Armées Secrètes de l’OTAN – Réseaux Stay Behind, Opération Gladio et Terrorisme en Europe de l’Ouest .Éditeur Demi-lune. 2007
Amélie Zima, L’OTAN .Que sais-je? 2021. 126 pag. L’auteure, fait un étude exhaustive de l’OTAN, depuis sa creation jusqu’à l’actualité. Docteure en science politique de l’Université Paris-Nanterre, sa thèse a porté sur le premier élargissement post-guerre froide de l’OTAN et a reçu le premier prix de thèse de l’Institut des hautes études de défense nationale (IHEDN)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_bases_militaires_des_%C3%89tats-Unis_dans_le_monde
Michael Mandel, How America Gets Away With Murder (Comment l’Amérique s’en tire à bon compte).Edit. Pluto Press, 2005.
NOTES
[1] Dans les années 1950, la tentative des États-Unis, de la France et de la Grande-Bretagne de faire entrer l’Espagne franquiste dans l’OTAN a échoué en raison de l’opposition d’autres États. Mais les États-Unis ont fait entrer la dictature fasciste de Franco par la fenêtre en installant des bases militaires sur le territoire espagnol en 1953.(A. Zima, p. 14 et 15).
[2] Fernando Hernández Holgado. Historia de la OTAN. De la guerra fría al intervencionismo humanitario. Los libros de la Catarata. Madrid. Año 2000, pág. 35.
[3] Formée après la Seconde Guerre mondiale et constituée par l’URSS, la Pologne, l’Allemagne de l’Est, la Tchécoslovaquie, la Hongrie, la Roumanie et la Bulgarie. À l’exception de l’ex-URSS, tous les autres pays membres du bloc ont progressivement rejoint l’OTAN et en font désormais partie.
[4] The Ukraine War in the light of the UN Charter
Alfred de Zayas, Professor of international law and world history at the Geneva School of Diplomacy (J.D., Harvard, Ph.D. Göttingen) former UN Independent Expert on International Order (2012-18), former Secretary of the UN Human Rights Committee, author of 12 books including “Building a Just World Order” – https://scheerpost.com/2023/02/07/the-ukraine-war-in-the-light-of-the-un-charter/
[5] Stephen John Hadley, militaire et avocat américain. Conseiller à la sécurité nationale du président George W. Bush (2005-2009).En 1977, Hadley a commencé à travailler comme avocat au cabinet Shea & Gardner de Washington, fournissant des services juridiques à Lockheed Martin, le plus grand fabricant d’armes au monde.En 1989, Hadley est devenu assistant pour la politique de sécurité internationale du secrétaire à la défense Dick Cheney, et agent de liaison entre le ministère de la défense et le conseiller à la sécurité nationale Brent Scowcroft. À ce poste, il était principalement responsable au Pentagone de la politique envers l’OTAN et l’Europe occidentale. En 1993, il retourne dans le secteur privé en tant que conseiller du Scowcroft Group, une société de conseil stratégique fondée par Brent Scowcroft, et en tant qu’avocat pour Lockheed Martin. Travaillant pour le vice-président de Lockheed Martin, Bruce P. Jackson, il a contribué à la création du Comité américain pour l’élargissement de l’OTAN en 1996.
[6] L’intervention des grandes puissances pour mettre fin aux violations des droits de l’homme en Yougoslavie a conduit aux accords d’octobre 1998 qui ont permis le déploiement de 1300 observateurs civils dans la région, mais les parties au conflit ne respectaient que partiellement les accords. Lors de la réunion de Rambouillet, au début de 1999, il était difficile de progresser vers un règlement pacifique jusqu’à l’arrivée de Madeleine Albright, secrétaire d’État de Clinton, qui a mis fin aux négociations et l’OTAN a immédiatement commencé à bombarder la Yougoslavie, dont les 1300 observateurs internationaux ont dû s’échapper sous une grêle de bombes “humanitaires”.
[7] Colin Powell a été utilisé sans le savoir, pour justifier l’agression contre l’Irak, de fausses preuves. Le 5 février 2003, lorsque les États-Unis ont lancé leur intervention militaire en Irak, Colin Powell est monté à la tribune de l’ONU pour défendre l’opération. Devant le Conseil de sécurité, il a énuméré une série de menaces, dont la présence présumée d’armes de destruction massive et d’armes bactériologiques en Irak, et a présenté des photos satellites, mentionnant des prototypes de laboratoires mobiles spécialisés dans la recherche biologique, des bunkers et des usines d’armes chimiques. Toutes les déclarations que je fais aujourd’hui sont basées sur, des sources solides”, a déclaré Colin Powell. La “guerre préventive” des États-Unis a été lancée en mars 2003, sans l’approbation des Nations unies. En 2013, dans une interview à L’Obs , Colin Powell a également commenté les faits : “Depuis que j’ai découvert qu’une grande partie des informations qui m’avaient été données étaient inexactes, je n’ai jamais cessé de me demander : qu’aurais-je dû faire pour éviter cela ?” Il s’est justifié : “Ce n’était pas un mensonge délibéré de ma part. Je croyais ce que je disais” (https://www.nouvelobs.com/debat/20130301.OBS0470/exclusif-colin-powell-comment-la-cia-m-a-trompe.html).
[9] Michael Mandel (6 mai 1948 – 27 octobre 2013) était un juriste et professeur canadien, spécialisé dans le droit pénal. Il est l’auteur du livre How America Gets Away With Murder (Comment l’Amérique s’en tire à bon compte).Edit. Pluto Press, 2005, sur la légalité des interventions militaires des États-Unis et de l’OTAN en Yougoslavie, en Irak et en Afghanistan.La première partie du livre comprend des chapitres sur le rôle des États-Unis et de l’OTAN dans le bombardement de la Yougoslavie en 1999, l’invasion de l’Afghanistan en 2001 et l’invasion de l’Irak en 2003, que l’auteur qualifie tous de criminels. L’auteur résume les justifications juridiques de ces guerres, notamment les approbations du Conseil de sécurité des Nations Unies, la légitime défense et les explications humanitaires, et les discute toutes.La deuxième partie du livre se concentre sur le Tribunal pénal international pour l’ex-Yougoslavie, qu’il décrit comme une propagande de l’OTAN plutôt que comme une cour de justice.Mandel détaille les nombreux liens entre la création du tribunal et l’OTAN, avant d’écrire sur le procès de Slobodan Milošević.Il note que le tribunal a refusé d’enquêter pour savoir si les forces de l’OTAN avaient commis des crimes de guerre lors du bombardement de la Yougoslavie.La dernière partie du livre se concentre sur la Cour pénale internationale, les procès de Nuremberg, les procès de Tokyo, l’examen par la Chambre des Lords du Royaume-Uni des affaires contre Augusto Pinochet, et la loi belge sur les crimes de guerre.
[10] Lorsqu’en 1943, durant la Deuxième Guerre mondiale, les alliés débarquèrent en Sicile, l’Administration militaire alliée (Allied Military Government of Occupied Territories – AMGOT), dirigée par le colonel étatsunien Charles Poletti, a travaillé en association étroite avec la mafia sicilienne et les propriétaires terriens pour contrôler la nouvelle administration civile, empêcher l’accès des communistes à des fonctions publiques et combattre par tous les moyens le mouvement croissant des paysans sans terre, comme l’illustre le massacre perpétré contre des paysans à Portella della Ginestra. Le 1er mai 1947, à l’occasion de la fête du Travail, 3 000 paysans se réunissent en famille à Portella della Ginestra (province de Parlerme). Ils sont la cible d’une fusillade tuant 11 personnes et en blessant 27 autres. Le ministre de l’Intérieur, le sicilien Mario Scelba prétend devant le Parlement, qu’il s’agit d’un conflit entre paysans, alors que rapidement, la culpabilité du bandit Salvatore Giuliano et ses liens avec la mafia sont établis.. Voir Lino Jannuzzi et Francesco Rossi, Lucky Luciano, Ed. Bompiani, Italie, 1973. Il contient des informations très complètes, y compris des documents du Narcotics Bureau et du Congrès des Etats-Unis, sur la collaboration étroite entre le Allied Military Government of Occupied Territory (AMGOT) et la mafia. Ce livre a servi de base au film « Salvatore Giuliano » de F. Rossi. Voir aussi le livre Giulio Andreotti tra stato e mafia du sénateur italien Emanuele Macaluso, Ed. Rubbettino, Messina, Italie, 1995.
[11] Francis Taylor, “La politique des Etats-Unis en matière de lutte contre le terrorisme”, Bureau du coordonnateur de la lutte anti-terroriste, département d’Etat américain, in Les objectifs de politiques étrangère des Etats-Unis, Revue électronique du Département d’Etats-Unis, Volume 6, no. 3, novembre 2001; Objectifs de politiques étrangère des Etats-Unis, Revue électronique du Département d’Etats-Unis, Volume 6, n° 3, novembre 2001. http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itps/1101/ijpf/ijpf1101.pdf; Dick Marty, rapporteur spécial de l’Assemblée parlementaire du Conseil de l’Europe sur les vols secrets de la CIA, a révélé en juin 2007 que, entre 2002 et 2005, la CIA a enfermé des détenus dans des prisons secrètes en Pologne et en Roumanie. Il a également affirmé qu’un accord secret conclu entre les États-Unis et l’OTAN en octobre 2001 permettait à la CIA de procéder à ces détentions et de mener d’autres activités illégales en Europe. http://assembly.coe.int/committeedocs/2006/20060606_fjdoc162006partii-final.pdf; Parlement européen 2004 – 2009 Commission temporaire sur l’utilisation présumée de pays européens par la CIA pour le transport et la détention illégale de prisonniers https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/dt/617/617721/617721fr.pdf
[12] Sur l’assassinat de personnalités publiques, voir “United States Congress, Commission Church, “Alleged Assassination Plots Involving Foreign Leaders, An Interim Report”, U.S. Government Printing Office, 18 novembre 1975″. Voir également “The CIA’s Nicaragua Manual, Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare”, Vintage Books, Random House, New York, 1985. Le rapport Church fait référence aux tentatives d’assassinat de Fidel Castro et aux assassinats, entre autres, du général chilien René Schneider en 1970 et du leader congolais Patrice Lumumba le 17 janvier 1961, moins de six mois après son élection au poste de premier ministre. Dans un documentaire diffusé par la chaîne de télévision franco-allemande ARTE le 3 octobre 2007 (Cuba, une odyssée africaine), on peut voir et entendre Lawrence (Larry) Devlin, chef de station de la CIA au Congo à l’époque des faits, déclarer que l’ordre d’assassiner Lumumba a été donné personnellement par le président Eisenhower. On peut ajouter, entre autres, les assassinats de Juan José Torres, ancien président de la Bolivie, à Buenos Aires en 1976, et d’Orlando Letelier, ancien ministre de Salvador Allende, à Washington en 1976. Fin juin 2007, des documents de la CIA ont été déclassifiés, mais avec de nombreuses occultations. Ils révèlent, entre autres, qu’en septembre 1960, la CIA avait passé des accords avec des gangsters de Miami pour assassiner Fidel Castro.
[13] Action secrète au Chili 1963 1973 : Staff Report of the Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with respect to Intelligence Activities, United States Senate, 18 de diciembre 1975 (Church Committee). Cité en : Jac Forton, L’impunité au Chili, Editions du CETIM, Genève, 1993.
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*Chapitre 12 du livre Maison terre, état de lieux– https://lire.amazon.fr/?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B0DVQCGWQT&consumptionLimitReached=false&deviceAccountIds=A045734813YG7O0GUB8YR&hasMultimedia=false&requiredCapabilities=EBOK_PURCHASE_ALLOWED&ref=sr_rn_kfw
oooooo
Geure herriari, Euskal Herriari dagokionez, hona hemen gure apustu bakarra:
We Basques do need a real Basque independent State in the Western Pyrenees, just a democratic lay or secular state, with all the formal characteristics of any independent State: Central Bank, Treasury, proper currency1, out of the European Distopia and faraway from NATO, being a BRICS partner…
Euskal Herriaren independentzia eta Mikel Torka
eta
Esadazu arren, zer da gu euskaldunok egiten ari garena eta zer egingo dugun
gehi
MTM: Zipriztinak (2), 2025: Warren Mosler
(Pinturak: Mikel Torka)
Gehigarriak:
MTM klase borrokarik gabe, kontabilitate hutsa da
1 This way, our new Basque government will have infinite money to deal with. (Gogoratzekoa: Moneta jaulkitzaileko kasu guztietan, Gobernuak infinitu diru dauka.)
