From the River to the Sea: Ibaitik Itsasora (177) eta Zohran Mamdani (b)

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You’re watching and listening to the electronic liveream and I’m Alia Boner.

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Um, and of course as we know that on November 4th, Zahan Manni won the

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mayoral election in New York City with just over 50% of the vote. He was the

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first mayoral candidate to win more than 1 million votes since 1969. And this

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election also had the highest turnout since that year. Um,

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Zahan Manni moved to the US at the age of seven. He attended public school in

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New York and became a US citizen in 2018. His father is Mahmud Mamani, the

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Colombia University professor, well known for his book, Good Muslim, Bad Muslim, which came out in the context of

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the so-called war on terror in the years after 911. and his mother is the noted

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uh film director Mir Miran. Now uh since 2021, Zahan Mdani has

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represented New York City’s Atoria neighborhood um in the New York State Assembly and that was his first elected

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office. He ran a campaign for mayor that focused

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on reforms aimed at aimed at improving the lives of New Yorkers and making the city more affordable. uh particularly

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free fast public buses and controlling rent. Um his opponents ran a national

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and even international smear campaign against him inciting bigotry because of his Muslim and South Asian Ugandan

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background and particularly because of his longtime support for Palestinian rights which of course is uh why this is

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a topic for us. First uh some disclosure I suppose um I actually uh first got to

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know uh Zohan Mandani in 2013 when he was a student at Bowden College in

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Maine. he was in his uh third year there and he was the uh co-chair of the SJP

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group there, the students for justice in Palestine group and he invited me to go and give a talk at Bowden College which

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I did in 2013. You can actually see there Zahan K Manni mayor elect of New

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York City uh saying Bowden SJP is so excited to be hosting Ali Abon to the

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Shannon room at 7:30 Monday 28th of October that was back in 2013 and my

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talk there the battle for justice in Palestine. Um and

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uh I spent you know a day with Zuan Mdani and his colleagues there and

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frankly he impressed me uh as very smart, very engaged and very sincere in

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his support for Palestinian rights which he also has expressed for many years. He

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was also a uh an avid reader of the electronic inif father. Here you can see

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him back in 2014 sharing an article by

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Max Blumenthal published by the electronic inif. So um I am not a close

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personal friend of Mahm of Zoran Mani by any means but since I met him in 2013 we

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you know we we’ve uh sort of stayed in in touch with each other from a distance

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on and off. Um and my exposure to him gives me the sense that he’s very

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sincere in his basic conditions. These uh basic uh positions that these were

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not positions that he suddenly adopted in order to um you know uh win support

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from a a left-wing or grassroots base. So how would we sum up his views? In

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general, he is describes himself as a democratic socialist, which means in practice he is a mild reformist. He has

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been a strong supporter of Palestinian rights. And I think this moment early in

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the Democratic Party primary for the mayor of New York caught a lot of people’s attention when he distinguished

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himself from the rest of the field by not uh automatically prostrating himself to Israel. Let’s take a look at this

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video and remind ourselves. visit by a mayor of New York is always considered significant. Where would you

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go first? That’s right. Matters. First visit, I would visit the Holy

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Land. Mr. Cuomo, given the hostility and the anti-semitism that has been uh shown in

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New York, I would go to Israel. Mr. Tilson, where would you go? Yeah, I’d make my fourth trip to Israel,

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followed by my fifth trip to Ukraine. Two of our greatest allies um fighting on the front lines of the global war on

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terror. Mr. Mani, I would stay in New York City. My plans are to address New Yorkers across the

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five burrows and focus on that. Mr. Mani, can I just jump in? Would you visit Israel

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as mayor? I will be doing as the mayor. I’ll be standing up for Jewish New Yorkers and I’ll be meeting them wherever they are

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across the five burrows, whether that’s in their synagogues and temples or at their homes or at the subway platform

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because ultimately we need to focus on delivering on their concerns. Yes or no? Do you believe in a Jewish

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state of Israel? I believe Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state as a state with equal

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rights. He won’t say it has a right to exist as a Jewish state. Be very and his answer was no. He won’t visit

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Israel. I I said that that’s what he was trying to say. No, no. Unlike you, I unlike you. I answer question directly.

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My goal would be to take my first trip to Israel. My wife’s life work in this area means a lot to our family.

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So uh although he did say he believe believes in Israel’s right to exist

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language I wouldn’t not use myself. Uh he did say inequality which of course is

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something that uh all the people on stage there object to because they don’t believe in equality when it comes to

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Israel. They believe Israel has the right to be a racist Jewish supremacist state, an apartheid state. and Manny uh

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at least held the line on that. Um and uh he made some other pledges during

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the campaign that were very notable. For example, uh we can see the headline

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here. Manny, if elected mayor, pledges to order NYPD, that’s the New York

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Police Department, to arrest Netanyahu. So he he stuck to that position during

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the campaign. He also did not back down from calling Israel’s mass slaughter in

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Gaza a genocide. However, he did make gestures towards supporters of Israel

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during the campaign as we can see from uh from this clip of him speaking on the

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view on October 1st. Let’s look at that. running for mayor of New York and not

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prime minister of Israel, but you’ve made inflammatory statements like calling Israel an apartheid state and

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questioning its right to exist as a Jewish state. Just this week, you were evasive with a reporter about condemning

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Hamas. Given New York has the largest Jewish population outside of Israel, why

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should voters who see this as a a moral red line trust your clarity and judgment? Well, I really appreciate this

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question and an opportunity to just clear up, I think, a number of misconceptions. You know, first and foremost, you’re right. I am running to

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be the mayor of the city, and this city will be the focus of my administration, ensuring that we make this a city

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everyone can afford and everyone knows that they belong to. And also, millions of New Yorkers, myself included, care

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deeply about what’s happening in Israel and Palestine. And so, to be very, very clear, of course, I condemn Hamas. Of

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course, I’ve called October 7th what it was, which is a horrific war crime. And of course, my belief in a universality

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in international law is also the same set of beliefs that have led me to describe what’s happening in Gaza as a

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genocide because what we see

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so as you can see there he stood by the term genocide but some of the positions

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you heard there and others during the campaign did dismay many of his supporters who worried that they these

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were early signs that he might back down in the face of pro-Israel pressure, you

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know, playing the condemnation game uh and and condemning October 7th in the

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terms that Israel supporters describe it rather than u saying this was a

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resistance operation. Yes, any deliberate harm to civilians we would

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condemn, but nonetheless there’s a right to ex right to resist. you know, that that might be something uh a position

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closer to what I might say or what someone else might say, but it’s definitely not what Zoharan Mandani

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said. Um, and so, you know, this generates criticism. There are a lot of

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people on the left who are critical and skeptical of anyone who remains within

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the Democratic party. And uh you know the the the saying goes, you don’t

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change the party, the party changes you. and they point to uh his close

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association with uh Alexandria Okaziocortez, who people see ha as

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having um really betrayed many progressive positions that she ran on

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and built a base of support for, including on Palestine, and also his close association with Bernie Sanders,

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who I think has disillusioned many people by his uh absolute refusal at

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first to even call for a ceasefire and then his refusal until it was really

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much too late to even call it a genocide. So those are things that have

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attracted uh uh criticism. Uh also uh recently he

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again sort of in response to some of this kind of constant pushing uh on um

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these these issues he referred to the leaders of Venezuela and Cuba as

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dictators at the very moment that the Trump administration is ramping up for war there. uh he could have said nothing

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but uh he he chose to use that language and that has certainly generated

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criticism of him from the left. But there’s no doubt that Mandani is well informed about the pro-Israel complicity

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of the city he is about to lead. And here he is speaking specifically about the New York Police Department. Uh and

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this was according to the v the label on the video in 2023.

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We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it’s been

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laced by the IDF. So what he said there, just to repeat,

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we have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it’s been

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laced by the IDF. And what he’s referring to there is the fact that the

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NYPD has close ties to the Israeli military and police, including many

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exchange programs. And the NYPD even has a leazison office in Israel. And here’s

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a story from the New York Post just a few days ago quoting the outgoing head of that liaison office, Detective

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Charlie Benim. And uh quote, it says Benim has been in

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charge of gathering intelligence, investigating events, and sharing information with the NYPD to keep the

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city safe since 2007, he told the Post last year. When the October 7, 2023

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Hamas attacks happened, he was working with local authorities in Israel and sharing information with the NYPD. He

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said, quote, “Whenever there’s a terror attack in Israel, I respond to the scene.” Bernim said after the terror

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attacks by Hamas in southern Israel. He then sends his assessment back to the department. The priority is to identify

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these trends and stop them before they have the potential to come to our city. said.

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Now, this is particularly disturbing since the NYPD ran a massive secret

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spying and surveillance program against Arabs and Muslims even beyond the borders of NYC in New Jersey, a state

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where it has no jurisdiction after 911, as the Associated Press

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revealed in a series of dipl of of investigative reports for which its team

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of reporters won uh a number of pulit. surprises. Uh this was back around 2011

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2012 detailing this massive surveillance of mosques, of businesses, of just

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people who look uh you know based on racial based on racial profiling.

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Um, one uh New York police official even confirmed to the Associated Press that

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the NYPD spying program was modeled on how Israeli authorities spy on

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Palestinians in the occupied West Bank. So that’s the NYPD.

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And a big concession that Manny has already made is agreeing to keep

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Jennifer Tish on as the NYPD police commissioner. Tish comes from an

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extremely wealthy, powerful pro-Israel family. And of course, the NYPD played a

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key role in crushing the Palestine Solidarity Encampment at Columbia University and other colleges in New

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York City over the last two years. Uh so the NYPD is an extremely powerful

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and largely unaccountable force and basically uh even though the mayor is sort of

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nominally in charge it is a a power unto itself. It is as often noted larger than

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the militaries of of many countries and has a larger budget than the militaries

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of many countries. So, uh, I suppose some people would argue that

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this is a pragmatic choice because the NI NYPD can ruin a mayor’s tenure if

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they choose to because they are basically unaccountable. But that is the reality.

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So, what could Mamani do as mayor? Uh, I think it’s important to remember that

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he’s the mayor of New York City or he’s going to be as of January 1st. So, it’s unrealistic to expect too much. He There

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are things he could do. For example, um perhaps end New York Police Department

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involvement with Israel. Uh he could end New York City’s purchasing of Israel

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bonds. In fact, the current city controller uh did not renew a $39

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million investment in Israel bonds when they when they matured in 2023.

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and Manny has said he will maintain that policy. In other words, uh he says New York City will not purchase Israel bonds

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anymore. And there is a battle uh shaping up over hundreds of millions of

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dollars of city pension funds which are in invested in Israel. That’s another area where the mayor could uh

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conceivably act. and he could in end city involvement or concessions towards

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Israeli institutions in New York like Technneondon, the Israeli university that’s deeply involved in weapons

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development and oppression of Palestinians. In fact, Mandani has said he will look at Cornell University’s

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partnership with Technon, which uses city-owned land in New York City uh when

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he becomes mayor. All that said, whatever Manny may or may not do,

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whether he holds the line or makes more concessions, you know, what’s the meaning of his

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victory, aside from the direct implications of for New York City, aside

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from what we think about Mandani as a person or his intentions, and I think

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there’s a few conclusions to draw from here. It is a massive repudiation by

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voters of the pro-Israel establishment. Billionaires, uh, Donald Trump, the

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Israeli government and its lobby all lined up against him with an unprecedented smear and hate campaign.

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It failed. He won more than 50% of the votes on a record turnout. That sends a

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broader message nationally and internationally. I think it exposes the battle within the

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Democratic Party over uh Israel. We’ve talked about uh in previous weeks we’ve

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talked about how support for uh Israel in the base of the Democratic Party. In

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other words, the voters is in single digits, but this is not reflected in the leadership. this sort of aging

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establishment in the Democratic party that refuses to let go of power and refused to endorse Manny for the most

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part, but he still won. And this does reflect the profound shifts in public opinion we’ve been talking about and the

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loss of support for Israel across the board. And I think significantly it reflects the failure of tried and tested

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strategies of racist fear-mongering and hatred especially targeting Muslims that

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have been really both democratic and republican plays uh for decades

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particularly since after 911. So what’s likely to come next? Uh

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I think an important lesson here uh and one I really hope that uh Zoharan

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Mandani will take on board is that his more consiliatory tone and comments

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during the election, the some of the things we heard just in the last few minutes, they did absolutely nothing to

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appease his critics, which is not surprising since all of their attacks

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are in bad faith. These are white supremacists. These are Islamophobes.

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These are Israel firsters. Nothing you can say will appease them. There will never come a moment, no matter how much

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Zaharan Mandani gives them, where they say, “Okay, you’re a good boy now. We’ll support you.” That day will never come.

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Here, for example, is an editorial in the Washington Post just the day before the election. The headline there,

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Zoharan Mamani’s success is a warning. And there’s uh this one line in the um

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in the in this staff editorial from the Washington Post that says, quote, “Mamani

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uh sorry, yeah, um Mamani has walked back

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some of his old positions, but never very convincingly. While he apologized to the NYPD and said he would retain the

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current mayor’s police commissioner, he recently admitted he hadn’t spoken to her since making the offer. So that

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concession wasn’t enough for the Washington Post. And then they say, “And while he no longer defends

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eliminationist rhetoric about Jews, he remains fixated with Israel.”

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I mean, there’s so much dishonesty in this. First of all, he has never used eliminationist rhetoric about Jews or

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defended it. And he has not been fixated on Israel in this campaign. It is his

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opponents who have been fixated on Israel and who insisted on making this campaign a referendum on Israel. And the

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absolute lie about him engaging in or defending eliminationist rhetoric about

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Jews is exposed by none other than the Times of Israel. Take a look at this

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article in the Times of Israel which was published after he won. The headline there, facing an anti-ionist mayor,

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Mdani’s election win puts New York Jews in uncharted waters. Now, this is a

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story designed to feed the scaremongering. But even here, the Times of Israel has to admit, quote, his

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condemnations are solely aimed at Israel and Zionism, not at Jews or Judaism.

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That’s the Times of Israel. Perhaps the Washington Post uh editorial writers should read the Times of Israel.

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I think it’s also notable, according to CNN’s exit poll, that Mandani garnered

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33% of Jewish votes in New York City, while his main opponent, Andrew Cuomo,

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who is backed by the Democratic Party establishment and by Donald Trump, um

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got 63% of the Jewish vote. I think the fact that one-third of Jewish voters

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opted for Mamani is significant given the enormous smear campaign aimed at painting him as a mortal danger to Jews

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and there were all these scare stories that if Mamani wins, Jews are going to flee New York and this kind of thing. Um

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I think all obvious nonsense. Um this caught my eye uh this tweet from uh the

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academic Shibli Tami. He says uh and I think this is uh really

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some astute uh observations. He says deep down Israeli leaders likely know

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that Manny won not despite his support for Palestinian rights but partly because of it. And uh uh Shibli Teli

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points to this tweet from Israeli official or former official Gilad Erdan.

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uh he is a former senior minister in the U Netanyao government. is also the uh

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until recently the US the Israeli ambassador to the US and then before that the United Nations and what Gilad

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Erdan wrote and this is very I’ll say why I think this is so important he says

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the mayor of new of New York is Zan Manni it’s crucial to internalize this an Israel hater who sees us as an

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apartheid state who perpetrates genocide and does not recognize Israel as a Jewish state was elected tonight to lead

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the most important city in the world, home to the largest number of Jews outside Israel. This is a dark day, a

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sad day for everyone who understands the immense importance of the alliance with the United States and is anxious about

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its future because what happened in New York could happen next across the entire

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United States, including in Congress and the White House. This is a huge warning

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sign and Israel must wake up and implement a comprehensive plan to rebrand ourselves in the United States.

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A plan that will foster broad and deep connections with the younger generation and minority communities in the United

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States. Uh so there’s a lot packed into this uh tweet by Gilad Erdan. Why do I

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think it’s significant coming from him? because one of his positions uh about a

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decade ago, Gilad Erdan was minister for strategic affairs in Israel and his job

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was to fight the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement, particularly in the United States. and his job was to do

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precisely what he claimed Israel needs to do now, which was to rebrand it and

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to build support among minority what he says broad and deep connections with the younger generation and minority

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communities in the US. And he miserably failed at that because the understanding

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that Israeli leaders still have is they they look at it and they say there’s nothing wrong with what we’re doing.

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It’s just that we’re bad at public relations. we’re bad at marketing and if we hire a better PR firm then no one

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will have a problem with Israel. They can’t internalize the reality that people are revolted and revulsed by what

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Israel does and no more so than in the past two years with this genocide. But

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one of the things that Gilad Erdan used to point out when he was minister of

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strategic affairs uh more than a decade ago is that we have to stop the rock now

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uh particularly on college campuses because the students now who are in

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students for justice in Palestine or exposed to uh Palestine activism on

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campus they are going to be the mayors, the members of Congress, the secretaries

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of state, the leaders of media organizations in the future, maybe even

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the president. And so, uh, Zahan Mdani’s

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rise, again, this is regardless of what you personally think about, you know, he

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said this or he said that or what he’s going to do, his rise is their worst

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nightmare because he was literally the co-chair of Students for Justice in

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Palestine on his college campus uh when they invited me uh to go and speak all

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those years ago. go at the time. I believe that Gilad Erdan was in charge of trying to stop this. So, uh I think

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it’s significant in that sense. And then finally, you know, just what’s going to

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happen next. It’s very clear that Israel and its lobby will continue uh to join

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the rightwing smear campaign to destroy Mamani uh to ensure that he he is a

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failure as may mayor uh on all his promises and to try to do to him what

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they successfully did to Jeremy Corbyn in the UK. Already two major Israel lobby groups have announced efforts to

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monitor Mamdani and we can expect an endless stream of smears and fake anti-semitism scandals. Uh for example,

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the American Jewish Committee, one of the major pro-Israel lobby groups. The

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director in New York wrote uh we may not be able to change your mind on these

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issues. He he’s referring to Israel. He he wrote this open letter to Manny. He

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says, “We may not be able to change your mind on these issues referring to Israel. However, we will be vigilant in

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ensuring that New York City government and your position as mayor are not used to hold Israel to a double standard or

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to attempt to isolate Israel economically in an effort to dismantle the world’s only Jewish state.” So here

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we have the American Jewish Committee pledging to be a watchdog and a guardian

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for a foreign state for the interests of a foreign country. And similarly the

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Anti-Defamation League, another major Israel lobby group, they very proudly la

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announced that they uh that the ADL launches initiative to track and monitor

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Mamani administration policies and appointments. And it says here, quote,

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Meillech Me Mdani has promoted anti-semitic narratives associated with

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individuals who have a history of anti-semitism and demonstrated intense animosity toward the Jewish state that

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is counter to the views of the overwhelming majority of Jewish New Yorkers. We’re deeply concerned that

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those individuals and principles will influence his administration at a time when we are tracking a brazen surge of

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harassment, vandalism, and violence targeting Jewish residents and institutions in recent years, said

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Jonathan Greenblat, ADL CEO and national director. So you can see that none of um

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Mandani’s copious rhetoric condemning anti-semitism, pledging to fight

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anti-semitism, which I believe he is entirely sincere about. I’ve never seen any evidence that Mamdani is a racist in

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any way. On the contrary, he is deeply opposed to all forms of bigotry. Uh but

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none of his assertions about that have done anything to appease these Israel

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lobby groups because they don’t care about anti-Jewish bigotry. They only care about maintaining Israel as a

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genocidal apartheid state. And as long as Mandani doesn’t support Israel and

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Israeli apartheid, they will continue to accuse him of being an anti-semite. So again, the message there is do not um

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appease them. it won’t work. It will only uh weaken you. So, uh I think I’ll

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leave it there uh and and we can uh bring everyone in for some discussion.

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Thanks for that, Alli. Yeah, it’s uh yeah, the the uh the Corbin model um

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needs to be disrupted whenever it pops uh pops up and and Asa, I know you can

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talk about that. Um, a couple of years ago before the genocide, I spoke with

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Mom Dani for an article um that I was writing for EI um about uh when he was

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an assembly member. Um, I believe his office actually contacted us um because

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uh he was um spearheading this bill uh to stop New York City B or New York

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state uh based charities from uh from funding settlement colonies um

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in the West Bank. Um he Manny introduced the bill. Um he stood with you know

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various local um Palestine solidarity groups uh in New

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York City um to support it. And I mean I just I remember my conversation was uh

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with him was you know he was very appreciative of the coverage and um you

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know very charismatic and he said you know funding colonialism and violence is

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not a charitable activity and I look forward to working with my colleagues in our fight to make that explicit in New

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York state law. Um he had a lot to say about uh settler violence and and the US

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support of colonialism in Palestine. Um and uh yeah I it’s you know I just I I I

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I am like all of us cautious because

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whenever someone you know is elevated to that uh level in politics especially you know

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given um blessing by of course uh Barack Obama in in recent weeks um and you know

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of course by AOC and uh and Bernie Sanders as he mentioned. Um, you know,

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we have to kind of double down on our caution. Um, but

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I I guess it remains to be seen whether his his values that he um says he grew up with and especially as a member of

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SJP and someone who’s been working um, you know, to to make New York City um, a

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less uh, racist place. I don’t know. I mean,

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we can be optimistic maybe. Yeah. Well, I mean, the bigger question is like how much power does the mayor of

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New York really have? I’m not suggesting this this is not an important and powerful position. It

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certainly is. Yeah. But you know even on the key pledges he made that he focused

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on which is affordability and housing uh it’s going to be really difficult for

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him if not impossible to fulfill those pledges because um you know the the the

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property barons of New York will not want that. They will not want limits on

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luxury development. They will not want controls on rent. they will not want initiatives that uh support really

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affordable housing or social housing for people. So he’s going to face tremendous

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opposition and not probably not primarily because of his views on on uh

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Palestine. So it’s going to be he’s going to be under tremendous pressure to surrender on really those key promises.

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And if he doesn’t give in, they will do everything to to uh break him. So it’s

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uh really a a huge challenge that he’s facing.

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Yeah. Yeah. and and it is, you know, the MMO of the Democratic Party to um you

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know, to platform uh real progressives, people who start off, you know, as as

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real leftists um and even call themselves socialists

33:41

and then wear them down into, you know, faint shadows of what they were um in

33:47

order to tow the the the Democratic Party line. And um you know we’ve seen

33:54

we’ve seen those tactics over and over again. Um and uh you know I don’t have a

34:01

lot of faith um in it this time but uh but my my my ears are remain open.

34:10

The view you’re giving Nor is one that a lot of people share. You know they they are deeply skeptical if not outright

34:17

hostile to the Democratic party because of what it’s done. stands for for very good reasons. I mean

34:25

the fact that the that that Camela Harris and Joe Biden were in charge of

34:30

this genocide for uh you know the first year and um

34:38

you know this may not matter in the end because ultimately you know how much power does an individual have? It may

34:46

not uh matter in the end, but to be fair to Zoharan Mandani, I think he’s

34:51

different from uh some of the other figures you’ve talked about uh on a

34:57

personal level, whether it’s Bernie Sanders or Barack Obama who is seen as the great betrayer uh and uh AOC

35:07

in that Zaharan Mdani has a very long and very explicit and very detailed

35:13

commitment to supporting Palestinian rights that none of them had. I mean,

35:19

Bernie Sanders, yes, he’s been critical on on Israel for many years, but within very strict liberal Zionist limits. And

35:27

we saw during the first, you know, until very recently, he wouldn’t call this a genocide. He wouldn’t call for a

35:34

ceasefire. AOC had uh gained attention and support for making statements about

35:40

Palestine uh when she was running, but then as soon as she Yeah. Uh she was pressured, she said, “Oh, I

35:47

don’t really know enough about it. I need to learn more.” It it will be so there’s two aspects of

35:53

this. One, I think Mdani’s commitment is deeper and longer and because he has a

35:59

long record of stating these positions, it’s much harder for him to turn on

36:04

them. And that is a new element here. And what that does in terms of uh

36:11

shaping discussion within the Democrat within and beyond the Democratic party

36:16

will be interesting to see. uh will this embolden more candidates to uh to say

36:23

some of the things which they may think already given the shift in opinion in

36:29

this country but don’t dare to say in other words while not having you know

36:35

again this is the mayor of New York he’s it’s not the president of the United States it’s not you know

36:43

understanding the limits I think we have to be

36:49

uh at least open to unexpected consequences from this unintended

36:55

consequences even if Mamani disappoints people on ABC and D

37:02

which he will you know because he’s a politician politicians are politicians no matter how much you like them personally

37:08

they’re still politicians you have to remember that but still this is both the conse this is

37:15

the consequence of the opening of base that has accelerated because of the

37:20

genocide in Gaza and at the same time it will have consequences of their own and

37:26

we just need to be attentive to attentive to that and not just think we know in advance oh th this it doesn’t

37:34

mean anything because of this this and this or it means everything we don’t know

37:39

things are changing people are skeptical because they say things are the same

37:45

because they’ve always been the same but then eventually they change. Is this that moment? I don’t know. Probably not.

37:52

Could be. Might be the start of it. I’m saying keep an open mind. Politicians are politicians and they

37:59

they have to be held to account. You know, that’s that’s the beginning and the end of it really. You know, no matter uh you know, even if we like him

38:08

more, he we he still has to be held to account. You know, that’s that’s really ultimately the the issue. And none of

38:14

these people are above criticism um or being held to account, which is

38:20

really the Yeah. And you know, I I I believe in that too. That’s why what I’ve laid out

38:26

and some of the things I’ve said on social media have been critical or just honest just saying the positions that of

38:33

Zoharan Mandani that I don’t agree with that people have criticized and I think

38:40

with with justification in in many cases doesn’t mean I don’t like him. I I

38:45

personally like him. I I I can’t say I don’t like I you know I liked him the

38:50

day I met him and I I’ve liked him ever since. But I will hold him accountable. I will hold him accountable because this

38:57

is not about personal loyalty to any individual or to any politician. This is

39:03

about fundamental basic principles that we have to defend. Yeah. And we’re not like the New York

39:08

Times. We’re not going to um you know uh kiss ass uh any politician who gives us

39:17

you know some attention or even praise. um you know we’re we’re not we’re not um

39:24

seeking access you know and and trying to to cement our access to the halls of

39:29

power. We wouldn’t do that. Although I would say Zor and Mom Danny come on the electronic interfer live

39:35

stream. I don’t know. I don’t know. We would we would we would be happy to

39:40

talk to you. Um well uh what I mean if I could advise Zor Danny what I would say

39:47

is um don’t and like don’t rest on your your laurels like don’t think that

39:53

you’ve become because you’ve won this victory and it is a you know a very significant victory

40:00

don’t underestimate the ability of the pro-Israel lobby in particular to make your life difficult. I mean, I think

40:06

that is really should be the lesson of Jeremy Corbyn, of the failure of Jeremy

40:12

Corbyn to become the prime minister, you know, when he he won the victory that he

40:19

did back in 2015 of becoming the leader of the opposition, becoming the leader

40:25

of the Labor Party. It’s easy to forget now what a massive victory that was. You know, it was incredibly significant.

40:33

And yet, you know, Jeremy Corbyn did similar things to what Zoran is doing

40:40

now in embracing this police commissioner who acted

40:47

uh for, you know, the crackdown against the student protests. He’s now embracing her and keeping her on. Jeremy Corbyn

40:54

did very similar things at at the beginning of his term as leader of the opposition and he made his entire shadow

41:01

cabinet out of uh the right-wing of the Labor Party because he said it he didn’t bring his own people on at first. He

41:08

didn’t bring on Diane Abber and John McDonald and all those people on the left of the Labour Party. He brought on

41:13

the right wing of the Labour Party because he was trying to say he was trying to embrace them and to disprove

41:19

the scare stories about him. when he was trying to say that, oh, we’re a broad church of the Labour Party, and he

41:26

actually meant it. Well, his enemies weren’t acting in good faith. No. And so there’s there’s a there’s a real

41:32

danger that Zoran could fall in the same trap. And actually, the the police commissioner, we you know, he he Zoran

41:38

saying he’s going to keep her on. Will she want to stay on? I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know enough about New York

41:43

politics to to to say that she may she may want to stay on, but there is certainly a possibility that the people

41:49

he tries to embrace like this will actually quit on him and kind of backstab him because that’s what

41:55

happened to Corbyn with his um with his right-wing shadow cabinet. They conspired um backed by the pro-Israel

42:03

lobby. they conspired against him and they all quit in succession to kind of

42:08

engineer this crisis against him in 2016. Um, which led to a a second

42:14

leadership campaign against him. Um, so you know there’s a lot of lessons there

42:19

to be learned which I I don’t think enough people are really taking on board.

42:25

Remains to be seen. Um but yeah uh

42:31

we’ll be watching all the lessons apply and we will be watching I I just think it’s too simplistic for

42:37

people to say oh you know none of this ma it’s significant that

42:45

people voted for someone they understood to be

42:51

calling what Israel is doing a genocide. So let’s not forget, let’s not make this I mean I say this after I just spent all

42:58

that time talking about Mamani. Let’s not make this about just Manny. This is

43:03

about the people who voted and the message they sent. And I think that, you

43:09

know, when a vote is a pretty blunt instrument, you know, you can’t say you

43:14

vote for a candidate, you agree with you can’t split your vote a

43:20

thousand ways and say, well, I’m voting for this part, not for that. It’s a yes or no with a candidate. And I think this

43:27

was a resounding yes to somebody who was expressing

43:33

in very human terms the horror that so many people feel at this genocide. And

43:39

that’s not a small thing. No, it’s not a small thing. It’s always delicious to watch the Zionist um you

43:47

know communities crash out over somebody who um doesn’t capitulate to their

43:54

pressure isn’t one of those mayors that just you know robotically said my first trip will be to the Holy Land or you

44:00

know to Israel. Um that’s what they expected. That’s what they paid for. And

44:06

when Zoron said, you know, in that clip that you played, well, I’m going to stay

44:11

here in New York cuz I’m I want to be the mayor of this city. I, you know, I

44:17

think um that was that was the beginning of the great Zionist crash out um over

44:25

him. And um it’s been it’s it’s been

44:31

honestly um yeah pretty fun to to see them, you know, tripping over

44:37

themselves. um and and trying to understand where they went wrong when,

44:43

as you were saying, Ally, this is a this is a referendum um not just by people in

44:48

New York City, but by people all over the country um who are uh you know, who

44:54

are fed up with the propaganda, who who aren’t um taking the bait anymore.

45:02

And these organizations like, you know, the the um AJC and and the ADL

45:09

are simply being marginalized to the point of total uh you know

45:16

like people just don’t think about them anymore. They don’t have any weight anymore. And I think that is due

45:24

um to people, you know, understanding what Israel has always been about, the US’s role in it,

45:32

and people don’t, you know, you don’t just forget about a genocide being live

45:37

streamed to your phone for two years. Um, so we’ll see what that means in terms of the political future for this

45:43

settler colony on this continent. Um but yeah, we’re uh our eyes are open and we

45:50

should remain so.

46:00

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