From the River to the Sea: Ibaitik Itsasora (31)

Gaza BEFORE Israel showed up

Israel is a criminal state

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Is the Gaza Genocide the “Achilles Heel” of Western Hegemony? | Roger Waters

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl9eEBH0HSo)

Pink Floyd rock legend Roger Waters responds to news from Gaza that Israel has massacred over 400 Palestinians in renewed rounds of bombardment and sends a message to Palestinian student Mahmoud Khalil.

Asked what his message is to Mahmoud Khalil and other students like him who have been arrested recently by immigration enforcement officers in the U.S. and are being threatened with deportation, Roger responds, “Keep doing what you were doing before they arrested you!”

“This is Gestapo tactics, this is fascism at work. Years ago in interviews I was saying the fight for universal human rights, specifically relating to the people of Palestine, will be fought on the campuses of north America, how right I was going to be I had no idea!”

Amid the horrors being inflicted on Gaza, Roger questions whether Israel’s genocide may eventually backfire: “What I hope is the genocide of the Palestinian people will prove to be the Achilles Heel in the monster of the Western hegemony with its mask off which we’re watching operate.”

“The hole in Trump’s armour and the hole in the Israeli lobby’s armour is their evil. The fact that they’re so undeniably and appallingly evil in every way maybe their achilles heel, and they may fail. They may fall over.”

Interview recorded March 18, 2025.

Transkripzioa:

0:00

so last night the world witnessed yet

0:02

another unspeakable atrocity from Israel

0:05

the mass killing of more than 420

0:08

Palestinians in Gaza whole families were

0:10

wiped out in their sleep schools mosques

0:13

people in tents were bombed how have we

0:16

got to this point for many of us why is

0:20

this a news no longer shocking

0:22

anymore I am very honored and privileged

0:25

to be discussing this today with a

0:27

living legend one of the world’s great

0:30

ever song writers and Brock musicians a

0:33

voice of resistance and unwavering

0:35

advocate for a human rights for decades

0:37

Roger has used his music his art and his

0:40

voice to stand against oppression he has

0:42

been slandered attacked blacklisted for

0:45

speaking the truth but he has never

0:47

backed down and in a world where too

0:50

many celebrities stay silent for the

0:53

fear of losing their privilege roer

0:55

Waters stands T so roer thank you very

0:59

much for being here and thank you for

1:01

always speaking the truth to power this

1:04

is why I’m so glad to be here with you

1:06

and Omar in the New Palestine Deep dive

1:11

offices and I’ve Just Seen A little tour

1:13

of your new studio it looks fantastic

1:16

and I just told me that Franchesca

1:18

albanesi is going to have our own show

1:20

on it and be interviewing how F

1:22

fantastic is that because what an

1:24

incredible voice for the people she has

1:27

been these last few years so I’m I’m I’m

1:30

really happy to be back um thank you

1:32

very

1:34

much truth is power and knowledge is

1:37

power and this is what we try to do to

1:39

subad the truth and knowledge to the

1:41

people yeah

1:44

so

1:45

sry

1:48

so okay we’re speaking over each other

1:51

please go

1:52

ahead no I was just going to say you

1:55

know I’ve been writing a memoir and the

1:57

title of my Memoir is Truth and Love

1:59

which you say truth because it as I get

2:03

older and older and older and I’m very

2:05

old as you know it it it occurs to me

2:08

more and more often that those are our

2:10

touchstones that is what we have to keep

2:13

our grip on that is what we must stay in

2:15

touch with his truth and love so anyway

2:18

go on yeah what do you want to know so

2:22

rer you have been one of the loudest

2:24

voices calling out these crimes the

2:26

crimes of genocide and apartheid in

2:29

palestin and I must ask you how did you

2:32

feel today when you woke up this morning

2:35

to the news that that Israel has

2:37

massacred hundreds hundreds more

2:40

Palestinians in Gaza what was your

2:43

reaction my reaction was to make a video

2:46

because I after waking up to that

2:52

news crushed as I was I then read a

2:55

substack piece by a man called Gilbert

2:58

Doo who is is one of the Apparently I

3:01

had thought up until recently one of the

3:04

voices of Reason outside the mainstream

3:07

media along with mer shimer and Jeffrey

3:10

Sachs and Palestine deep Dave and Max

3:12

bluman and Aaron Marty and Katy Halper

3:15

and bl and blah blah we can go on

3:17

listing the names who are part of our

3:19

community who are voices in our quar and

3:24

and Gilbert is definitely one of them he

3:25

lives in Brussels he’s a professor of

3:28

something or other he speaks fluent

3:29

Russian so he’s a great expert on all

3:33

all Affairs Russian and um I’ve listened

3:37

to him and he’s always on Judge you know

3:39

judging freedom and shows like

3:42

that but

3:44

recently since the um election of Donald

3:48

Trump as the President of the United

3:50

States he he started to come out with u

3:54

with this interesting proposition which

3:57

is that Trump is brilliant that he’s a

4:00

brilliant politician and that he makes

4:03

wonderful sense and that he and that

4:07

Gilbert is worried about his colleagues

4:09

in the world of alternative media who

4:12

seem to think that there’s something

4:13

wrong with Trump and that well yes of

4:16

course there is but but Dr Ro’s position

4:19

has increasingly become that the

4:22

blemishes in Donald Trump are minor

4:25

issues and things and and Gilbert Doo

4:29

has ignored the elephant in the room

4:32

that’s been there for this month or two

4:34

months or however long he’s been lording

4:37

Donald Trump and the elephant in the

4:39

room is that Donald

4:40

Trump 100% supports the genocide of the

4:45

people of palestin so what did I do this

4:47

morning I made a little video and you’ve

4:50

got it now so you could make it part of

4:52

this if you want later R so I made I

4:54

made a video directly speaking to

4:57

Gilbert drro and saying what are you

5:02

thinking you well anyway it’s all in the

5:05

video so that’s what I did this morning

5:08

and

5:10

um I’m still I can’t I won’t get over

5:13

last night today or tomorrow or the next

5:16

day but then I never get over any of the

5:19

massacres you know I only go back to

5:22

about 2008 that was the first mowing of

5:25

the lawn in Gaza or as far as I was

5:28

concerned I don’t I don’t go back beyond

5:30

the first inter which was like at the

5:32

turn of the Millennium or whatever

5:34

because I didn’t know anything about it

5:37

I was ignorant Pig ignorant like Donald

5:41

Trump is

5:43

now because if Donald Trump wasn’t

5:46

completely ignorant of the entire

5:48

history if Donald Trump had read his

5:52

Elon Pape or listen to you guys on Deep

5:55

dive or whatever he wouldn’t be able to

5:58

pursue the policy is that he is in the

6:02

Holy Land I.E the eradication of the

6:05

indigenous people so he and Jared is a

6:07

bowling son-in-law can build luxury

6:11

apartments and houses and golf courses

6:14

once they’ve got rid of all the people

6:16

whose land it is so well Roger I think

6:20

the ignorance execuse is not valid

6:22

anymore I mean this genocide has

6:24

approved everyone that from now on from

6:27

now until the end of time no one can say

6:29

that they did not know what was going on

6:31

in Gaza you know people are just worried

6:34

about the hostages in Israel and they

6:37

they were justifying a genocide to

6:39

release the hostages that’s not

6:40

acceptable we are all equal and we all

6:43

deserve to live equally with the human

6:45

rights for all and that’s why those who

6:47

say that they were ignored they did not

6:49

know what’s going on in Gaza I don’t

6:51

believe them anymore people stand with

6:53

Israel right now because they’re racist

6:56

I’m I’m I’m sorry I don’t see any any

6:58

any justification other than they were

7:00

racist and you know you mentioned Donald

7:02

Trump Donald Trump is not is not a

7:04

racist but Donald TR Donald Trump is a

7:07

racist and he’s not ignorant he knows

7:08

exactly what’s going on in Gaza and

7:10

today in the in the the White House said

7:12

that this attack against the

7:14

Palestinians Gaza it was coordinated

7:16

with them you sorry yeah so now some

7:20

voices no more than the man himself uh

7:24

are hoping that Donald Trump will be one

7:26

day awarded the Nobel Peace of prize

7:28

some say that he is bringing about the

7:31

end of the war in Ukraine and others see

7:33

that he is a Beacon of Hope for the

7:35

Middle East as your friend R but given

7:39

his staunch and unwavering support for

7:41

Israel not forgetting how he already

7:43

moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem in

7:45

2018 and how and the one who who ped

7:49

Netanyahu at every run should this man

7:52

really be expecting a Nobel Peace Prize

7:56

Roger don’t waste my breath

8:00

please obviously that’s a ridiculous

8:03

question completely absurd I’m so I

8:06

don’t mean to interrupt the flow of your

8:09

good journalism but let’s not even go

8:12

there do you know I I have a theory

8:14

since you’ve got me on now I’ll tell you

8:16

what I’m what I’m thinking what I’ve

8:18

been wondering for the last few weeks

8:20

all right we all know now that the mask

8:22

is off Western imperialism finally at

8:25

the end of the second war world

8:28

war um we all stood around on the 10th

8:31

of December in Paris in 1948 and

8:34

declared Universal human rights for

8:36

everybody supported we hoped by a kind

8:38

of universally accepted uh international

8:41

law and the Geneva conventions and all

8:44

of that all right well we now know for

8:46

absolute certain that a lot of our

8:48

leaders when they made that declaration

8:51

had their fingers crossed behind their

8:53

back they were lying and they knew they

8:57

were lying yeah we now know know that

8:59

for absolute sure because we can see uh

9:03

the policies that they are pursuing and

9:06

we can see that they have no intention

9:09

of honoring the idea that all men are

9:14

created equal and have certain

9:15

inalienable rights they do not believe

9:18

that and they never did it is no

9:22

surprise that Winston Churchill in you

9:24

know back in the second world war when

9:27

talking about the 30 m

9:29

ion uh bengalese Indians who died in the

9:33

famine that the United Kingdom created

9:36

and

9:37

sustained Winston Churchill said there

9:39

are beastly people with a beastly

9:42

religion them I don’t think he

9:45

actually used the F-bomb but he said

9:47

beastly people with the beastly religion

9:49

so we have to understand that that is

9:51

still there that those of us like me who

9:54

grew up after the second world war who

9:56

believed in the idea that we had decided

9:59

May decisions to prevent world wars in

10:02

the future we were being lied to so we

10:05

know that The Masque is off okay so

10:09

that’s over now further to that general

10:12

idea because the mask is off what I’m

10:15

hoping is that the genocide of the

10:19

Palestinian people will prove to be the

10:22

Achilles heel in the

10:26

monster of the western hegemony with its

10:29

mask off that we’re watching operate and

10:33

it’s not just the United States of

10:34

America it’s France and Germany and the

10:38

UK and Belgium and the Dutch and the

10:41

Danish and the

10:44

Scandinavians not the Russians yet hope

10:47

and hopefully won’t be but they’re all

10:50

in it together and they’ve all said

10:52

actually we didn’t mean all that we

10:54

believe in Empire and hegemony and we

10:58

believe that the world is a big cake and

11:00

it needs to be plundered by

11:03

Europeans and if you’re

11:05

Brown in the South or if you’re in the

11:08

Middle East or in Asia or anything if

11:11

you’re not like us we will steal every

11:15

stick of furniture you’ve got that is

11:17

what the Israelis who are mainly from

11:20

northern Europe or North America are

11:22

doing now to the indigenous population

11:25

of the Holy Land of Palestine of the

11:29

country Palestine they’re doing it that

11:32

is what Donald Trump is

11:34

applauding that is what was happening

11:37

last night when 400 of my brothers and

11:40

sisters were slaughtered in Cold Blood

11:44

by the Israeli

11:46

scum an evil racist aparte insane

11:52

religious

11:54

cult they are and everybody can see it

11:57

and they make no pretend that they’re

12:00

not all the polls done in Israel go yep

12:03

that’s what we are what’s wrong with

12:05

that it’s in the Torah or it’s in this

12:08

or it’s in that it’s some in some holy

12:11

RIT God gave us this so them

12:15

they’re animals they’re cockroaches

12:17

they’re rats they’re Vermin yes let’s

12:20

wipe them all out just like the Jews in

12:23

the warsa ghetto white them out they

12:25

scum buring they’re a subhuman can you

12:28

imagine these people believe this even

12:31

though all of the studies of the human

12:34

genome since the 1990s we’ve known that

12:37

we’re all

12:39

African that we all share the same DNA

12:43

that we’re all cousin we’re all related

12:46

all that stuff the Eugenics nonsense

12:50

that they believed in the 19th century

12:52

and earliest 20 we know it’s we now know

12:55

that it’s

12:56

nonsense that homo sapiens is One race

13:01

we’re all brothers and all of this

13:03

nonsense about some of us being Superior

13:06

to others based either on the color of

13:08

our skin or the geographical details of

13:12

our

13:14

birth is

13:16

nonsense yeah but it’s been organized by

13:21

Rich powerful people like Winston

13:24

Churchill and his family you know in

13:27

England it’s been organized so that they

13:30

can go on

13:32

plundering this beautiful planet that we

13:35

call home for their gain and we know

13:38

that the Donald is one of them and proud

13:43

of it and he believes that that is

13:46

exactly how and he’s not to give Donald

13:49

his due he makes no bones about it he

13:52

says so he thinks it’s the way the world

13:55

should

13:57

be so what do we to do we to do what

14:00

you’re doing and what Omar’s doing and

14:03

what I’m doing and what Franchesca

14:04

albanesi is doing and what we thought

14:07

Gilbert Doo was doing until like 10

14:10

minutes ago when he suddenly changed his

14:12

tune and started talking about well

14:15

maybe this is a way forward to accept

14:19

these malign ideologies that have

14:22

nothing to do with democracy or Liberty

14:26

or or international law or the United

14:30

Nations and what it stands for and what

14:32

it should be I

14:34

know yeah and I know there is a lot of

14:37

us a lot of things we all should do and

14:40

you know Roger one of the the people who

14:43

live in America wanted to do something

14:45

his name is Mahmud Khal a Palestinian

14:47

activist living in the US who was

14:49

leading the protest in Colombia

14:51

University but recently he was arrested

14:54

he was detained with the intention of

14:57

deporting him simply for stand standing

14:59

up against genocide and you know this is

15:02

part of the growing a Crackdown on the

15:03

Palestinian voices particularly in the

15:05

west where governments claim Champion

15:08

Hood a champion Free Speech who Champion

15:11

free free speech except when that speech

15:15

challenges Israel so Roa finally what is

15:18

your message what what message do you

15:21

have for Mahmud Khal and all those who

15:23

are facing persecution simply for

15:25

speaking truth to

15:27

power keep doing whatever you’re doing

15:30

keep doing what you were doing before

15:31

they arrested you what what’s

15:34

interesting about this and terrifying

15:37

about it is that when that was going on

15:39

last year at Colombia we all watched

15:42

horrified as they were sending in the

15:44

military lies police and go well hang on

15:46

a minute this is Gusto tactics this is

15:50

what this is fascism at work and they

15:53

and they can’t possibly well they they

15:55

are they have half gotten away with it

15:58

already 20 years ago in interviews I was

16:01

saying th this the fight for Universal

16:05

human rights specifically the relating

16:08

to the people of Palestine is going to

16:10

be fought on the campuses of the

16:12

universities of North America how right

16:15

I was going to be I had no idea but also

16:19

I didn’t know that the lobby the Israeli

16:22

Lobby the filthy fascist aparti Israeli

16:27

Lobby the ADL and Jonathan greenblat and

16:30

all the other monsters who are involved

16:33

were going to have so much power that

16:36

they could rewrite the laws of the

16:39

United States so that they could commit

16:42

crimes like the arrest of the young man

16:46

that you were talking KH who you were

16:49

just talking about just now who’s

16:51

married to an American System um

16:54

American citizen and you know who’s

16:57

pregnant and and who has a green card

17:00

and who has an absolute legal right to

17:02

be in in in North America and in the

17:05

united St and to say whatever he

17:07

believes in his heart and they’re saying

17:09

no you can’t and neither can Ahmed and

17:12

neither can Omar and neither can Roger

17:15

Waters and we’re going to destroy them

17:17

all just like we’re trying to destroy

17:20

this honest

17:22

Humane Heart of Gold young man and which

17:26

they are and and obviously we’re close

17:29

ranks and we’re trying to help him in

17:30

any way we can but that’s why I was

17:32

saying just now Amed maybe this is their

17:36

Achilles heel you know Achilles was

17:40

dipped in the sticks by his mother to

17:42

protect him from all evil in the future

17:44

but she had her thumb on his heel so it

17:47

left a tiny hole and that’s where he was

17:49

hit by the arrow and it brought him down

17:52

he went from being this all powerful

17:55

figure to nothing because he had this

17:59

hole in his armor well the hole in

18:01

Trump’s armor and the hole in Israeli

18:05

Lobby’s armor is their evil the fact

18:11

that they’re so undeniably and

18:13

appallingly evil in every way maybe

18:17

their Achilles heel and they

18:20

may fail they may fall over because of

18:25

their Achilles heal because the people

18:27

of the world will

18:30

realize this isn’t what we signed up for

18:33

and the people of the world will realize

18:36

that they’re all Homo sapiens and that

18:39

all the people even the Israelis are

18:42

their brothers and sisters but that we

18:45

all have to treat one another like

18:47

cousins so we don’t drop 2,000 bombs

18:52

on

18:54

multistory residential buildings in

18:58

foreign land

18:59

murdering everyone in them not least in

19:02

southern lemonon which is what they did

19:04

to kill nazara they dropped six 2,000

19:07

bombs on a whole highrise building

19:10

estate to kill one man who didn’t agree

19:14

with

19:18

them Roger that was very very powerful

19:21

thank you very much for your voice and

19:23

thank you for unwavering support for all

19:26

the oppressed people around the world it

19:28

was a pleasure speaking to you today hey

19:30

and to you sir thank you CL if you enjoy

19:34

this analysis please like share and

19:37

subscribe and consider supporting us by

19:39

donating as little as one pound per

19:41

month by heading to Palestine dive.

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support

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mar. 25

This Labour government could have taxed the very wealthiest in our society.

It is disgraceful that they are choosing to go after the poor and disabled instead.

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1904619939815694636

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Matt Kennard@kennardmatt

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1904471921024020755

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Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1904457800715030852

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@tobararbulu # mmt@tobararbulu

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Genocide in Gaza: Western Moral Collapse in the Age of Hyper-Imperialism | Vijay Prashad

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYaZbRnAj2g)

“This is not just an Israeli genocide – this is an Israeli, European and US genocide!”

Vijay Prashad exposes the moral decline of the global north in the age of hyper-Imperialism and its continued war against “defiance” found in the global south.

In a recent report published by Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research titled Hyper-Imperialism: A Dangerous Decadent New Stage, Prashad argues the global north has heightened its reliance upon force to insist on obedience. 

Read the report: https://thetricontinental.org/studies…

Interview recorded 11th November 2024.

__________________________

Vijay is an Indian historian and journalist. He is the author of forty books, including Washington Bullets, Red Star Over the Third World, The Darker Nations: A People’s History of the Third World, The Poorer Nations: A Possible History of the Global South, and The Withdrawal: Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, and the Fragility of U.S. He is the executive director of Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research, the chief correspondent for Globetrotter, and the chief editor of LeftWord Books (New Delhi).

Ahmed Alnaouq is a Palestinian journalist from Gaza and co-founder of We Are Not Numbers

0:00 Intro

3:30 Has Israel’s level of violence surprised you?

7:50 The International Division of Humanity explained

10:40 What is imperialism?

14:30 The United States and Israel is one country

16:50 Why is Israel so special to the West?

17:30 Israel is NOT in Europe

20:00 Global North’s War on the Global South

25:00 Netanyahu is gaslighting the world

27:00 Israel wants to clear out Palestinians from Gaza

28:30 Egypt has done nothing to support Palestinians

33:00 Can Israel successfully ethnically cleanse Gaza?

35:00 Everyone in Gaza will die before their time

37:00 Gaza was beautiful

42:00 The global north’s economic decline since 2006

45:00 “White fragility” explained

47:00 Germany’s history of genocide

48:30 The global north’s moral decline

50:00 Is Gaza a warning to the future?

52:00 Have the left and trade unions failed Gaza?

56:00 Imperialism will not allow a Free Palestine

58:00 There is no problem in Palestine, Israel has a problem

1:00:50 There is a light at the end of the tunnel

Transkripzioa:

Intro

0:00

what is so special about the people in the United States nothing is special they are people just like you and me I

0:06

don’t want to hear an American president ever again lecture me about human rights why 100% yeah because they have been

0:13

sending 2,000 bombs to the Israelis to bomb Palestinian children I don’t you

0:19

know from now till the end of time the Germans need to stop talking about human

0:24

rights my family did not participate in doing a holocaust against anybody there’s a tempt at moral superiority

0:32

yeah so for instance uh they will lecture us about human rights in Iran or

0:37

they lecture us about how Hamas has a bad attitude to women and this and that

0:43

bad attitude to women women are dying under American bombs okay you want to

0:48

you want to criticize the Iranians because they are saying oh you know you should cover your hair women are dying under us bombs I

0:56

don’t want you to tell me about how much hair should be shown or not shown okay you are obliterating people’s heads and

1:04

then lecturing us about the hijab or about whatever this is this is the moral

1:10

decline the moral decline is they still think they are superior when in fact

1:16

they are participating in genocides again I want to underline this this is not a Israeli genocide this is an

1:23

Israeli us European genocide I think it’s very wrong to cons we should P

1:29

Benjamin n shouldn’t bear the whole blame for this Olaf Schulz Emanuel macron K stama before him RI sunak you

1:37

know Joe Biden after him Donald Trump all of them all of them should be

1:42

sitting in a prison cell in the international criminal court hello and welcome back to

1:49

Palestine Deep dive today I’m very happy to be joined with very special guest of

1:54

course because we always have very special guests he is VJ prashad

2:00

I hope I said it correctly absolutely absolutely so VJ is an Indian historian

2:07

and journalist he’s the author of 40 books wow how many years did it take you

2:12

to write 40 books um you know let’s not get into that because they’re not all

2:18

very big books so some of them are quite little for good reason because I believe

2:23

people should read and if you make very fat books they don’t read okay because I

2:29

recently we not numbers we released our first book ever and it felt like it took me so long to release the first book

2:36

although I didn’t write it so when I hear that someone has written 40 books it blows my mind well done good

2:44

job so uh VJ is also an author uh of 40

2:49

books as I said including Washington Bullets red star red star over the third

2:54

world the darker Nations people’s history over the third world uh the the

2:59

poorer Nations a possible history of the global South and many other books so

3:06

let’s start V with your experience during the past year how did you feel uh

3:14

watching this life stream genocide over the past year and a half and has a level

3:20

of barbarity and violence cised you um yes the level of barbarity and

3:28

violence has certainly been shocking I I can’t say it’s surprised me but it’s

3:33

been shocking it didn’t surprise me because you know I’ve I’ve been as a

3:39

correspondent in Iraq um in Syria but really Iraq was a test case of this um

3:47

you know people forget that when the United States bombed Iraq from 2003

3:53

onward it was vicious bombing they bombed the entire infrastructure of Iraq

3:59

you know they bombed water purification plants electricity plants they bombed

4:04

the airport they bombed some hospitals they killed journalists including tari

4:10

yakub of Al jazer while he was on air um the violence that the United States

4:17

inflicted on the Iraqis was extreme now there wasn’t access to the images

4:23

because you didn’t have the ubiquity of cell phones and so on um and also the US

4:29

media was able to quite sufficiently suffocate um images coming out of Iraq

4:35

so it’s not like I was you know not expecting something like this in 2014

4:42

the Israelis as part of their punctual bombardment of Gaza you know almost

4:47

every few years 2006 2007 8 9 10 11 12

4:55

13 14 I mean every year in the summertime the Israelis went on on a rampage and bombed one or the other part

5:03

of Gaza when they bombed Gaza in all those years it’s not like they didn’t

5:08

hit the hospitals or didn’t hit the universities or didn’t bomb un

5:13

institutions they were doing it right through those years it’s just that in

5:20

2023 they almost decided to carpet bomb all of Gaza in other words to hit the

5:28

hospitals hit the universities but not hit one Hospital not hit one University

5:34

but flatten all of them and they used 2,500 PB bombs to flatten entire

5:41

neighborhoods 2014 they flatten neighborhoods in jabalia they flatten

5:46

neighborhoods in the center of Gaza City this time they went after almost all neighborhoods so it’s the

5:54

scale not the actual quality of bombing they’ve done this before they they’ve

5:59

attacked you know UNICEF buildings and so on 2014 they bombed the UNICEF building in Gaza Not Unusual the quality

6:08

of the bombing was the same bomb civilian infrastructure but it was the

6:13

sheer quantity they bombed everything that shocked me so it wasn’t

6:20

a surprise it was a shock that the Israelis decided effectively to just

6:25

bomb from one end of Gaza to chase the People South contined to bomb them you know there was

6:32

a lot of expectation that by the time the Palestinian who were fleeing from

6:39

Gaza City got to Kan yunas it would stop but then they went up to and started bombing Kan yunas then as people went

6:46

towards Rafa there was again an expectation you remember it’s going to stop I mean the fact that the Israelis

6:54

ignored everybody they ignored all the governments of the world they ignored

6:59

except the United States because I don’t believe the United States and Israel are two countries I think they are one

7:05

country but everybody else was saying stop stop pause take care nothing not

7:11

one day did they stop uh without wanting to rest some concessions from somebody

7:18

or the other and there was no space for dialogue or negotiation that was shocking and not only that but they also

7:25

the Israeli soldiers while they were killing and destroying University cities and hospitals and schools they filmed

7:32

themselves doing that and they bragged about it so ugly you know it’s it’s in my

7:39

opinion there’s there’s a a concept that I very much hope people will start to

7:44

use and this is the concept of the international division of humanity you know for hundreds of years in a period

7:52

of in a sort of context of colonialism there was an understanding that some

7:58

humans are better than other humans um you know let’s say Europeans or people

8:03

who were considered to be white are superior to everybody else Humanity was

8:09

divided and the people who are not considered to be white um could be just

8:15

killed you know uh the first aerial bombardment takes place against Libya in

8:20

1911 the Italians just carpet bomb the libyans and then bragged about it saying

8:26

that our aerial bombardment is a good education for the tribes the Arab tribes

8:32

in Libya they learned to behave themselves 1924 the British bombed the

8:37

Kurds in Northern Iraq again Arthur bomah Harris writes a report saying you

8:42

know these Kurdish tribesmen they will learn to fear us they’re a lower form of

8:48

humanity when I watched the bombing by the Israelis of the Palestinians it was

8:54

very clear that there was an international division of humanity operating

8:59

you know one Israeli child seemingly According to some calculation in

9:05

Washington DC or in Tel Aviv one Israeli child is worth 10,000 Palestinian

9:11

children if one Israeli child is hurt you are allowed to kill 10,000 palestin that’s that’s the attitude of the

9:19

international division of humanity and the way the soldiers were displaying children’s clothes playing Breaking toys

9:26

and the cruelty you know that Cru y you can’t even say it’s excessive because if

9:33

an international division of humanity is operating it’s normal to treat the

9:39

children of the Savage with absolute contempt and that’s exactly how the Israeli soldiers were behaving they

9:46

treated Palestinians as Savages and this itself has to be considered not just a

9:53

war crime but this is beyond that I mean it’s it’s somehow the even the term

9:58

genocide seems too little this is something beyond that this is an this is a crime

10:05

against civilization yeah I I wouldn’t say that it’s only Israel who treated the Palestinians as Savages but also

10:11

most of the West because they have enabled and participated in this genocide and that actually takes us to another um aspect of the conversation

10:20

today which is a report that you your group uh authored recently it’s called

10:25

hyper imperialism so we’d like to talk a little bit about hyper imperialism but before we go there can you in your own

10:33

words and briefly describe to us or um Define to us what is imperialism what is

10:39

the global South and what is the global North yeah you know this is an old concept imperialism effectively what

10:46

imperialism refers to is a structure in the world where certain people either a

10:52

minority group of people as Nations or a group of Nations uh oppress is the

11:00

majority of the world treats them as subhuman takes their resources and sells

11:07

them finished goods in other words continues to benefit by the subjugation

11:12

of other people using their labor their resources and so on that’s imperialism

11:17

imperialism is something that we experienced you know during the British colonization of large parts of Africa

11:24

Asia French colonization of large parts of Africa some parts of Asia so on I

11:30

mean in a sense um after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire uh the totality of

11:36

Palestine was colonized by the British and was held as a so-called mandate

11:42

Palestine was in British hands and north of Palestine in French hands the French mandate including what is today Lebanon

11:50

um then the extraction of of resources and and the use of other people’s labor

11:57

at lowered cost that’s imperialism you see we live in a slightly different period than the classical imperialism

12:04

why is that well some countries um particularly in the post World War II

12:11

period uh centered around the United States began to mute their various

12:16

differences so the Europeans muted whatever differences they had with the

12:22

United States and they created a block that block has a military Alliance the military Alliance is the north at

12:29

atantic Treaty Organization NATO created in 1949 that block has a very important

12:36

intelligence alliance called the five eyes Network which includes Canada United Kingdom Australia New Zealand and

12:44

the United States that was created in the 1950s now it’s an Eliz movement includes some European countries in

12:52

1974 these countries created a political economic Group which was the G7 it was

12:59

you know Italy West Germany at the time United Kingdom France Canada United

13:05

States um you know and Japan the these were the G7 countries so if you take the

13:11

military Alliance the intelligence Alliance the kind of political um

13:16

guidance coming from the G7 this group becomes the global North uh and this

13:22

group actually unifies policy and starts to act together now we calculated

13:28

military spending by this block the NATO plus block that means the NATO countries

13:34

plus a few allies like Japan and South Korea if you include their total military spending it’s

13:42

74.3% of global military spending you know people think oh my God China is

13:48

becoming a major threat to the world China’s military spending is 10% of the global total Russia 4% it’s this NATO

13:57

plus country with the United States as the major spender on Military um Arsenal

14:04

this is the real threat to the world and Israel is a part of this block I mean

14:09

I’m very much of the view that the debate that has happened over many years

14:15

you know is is the United States directing Israel or is Israel directing

14:20

the United States us this is a debate we should stop having the fact is the

14:26

United States and Israel are one country when it comes to the Palestinians they operate hand in glove um if you start

14:33

thinking that they are not hand in glove you will get confused when Joe Biden would say well we’re trying to tell them

14:40

to have a seized fire but meanwhile he’s shipping 2,000 PB bombs what he’s saying

14:46

is merely to confuse the world in fact they weren’t trying to get Israel to have a ceasefire there’s no evidence of

14:53

that you know blinkin will travel to Tel Aviv 10 times during the conflict but

14:59

okay when the aner Allah government in in in in Yemen said that look we cannot

15:05

any longer tolerate weapons going through the Red Sea and going to help

15:10

Israel kill more Palestinians we’re going to stop that United States government didn’t bother with any

15:16

diplomacy they didn’t send blinken to sah to go and talk to the ansar Allah

15:22

leadership you know there was no diplomatic Overture they just threatened the yemenis and then they bought bomed

15:29

them you know so look in that sense United States was bombing Yemen on

15:34

behalf of Israel where is the space between these countries so we generally

15:39

think of this Global North as a PCT as a block

15:45

Germany with the United States supplied Almost 100% of Israel’s weapons United

15:51

States about 80% Germany close to 20% these are hand in glove Britain provided

15:57

a small percent but still very sophisticated equipment um to the

16:02

Israelis they hand and glove I I don’t imagine that it’s useful to continue the

16:09

debate and discussion whether there’s any difference between Berlin London

16:15

Washington and Tel Aviv I think they are part of a block which we call the global North and they treat um those who are on

16:23

the other side of the international division of humanity without any care for their life for the for the for for

16:31

decency there’s no care and concern at all that actually experience the

16:37

situation very well but my question to you why is Israel so special to the west

16:43

and the West doesn’t only support Israel militarily but also diplomatically with media it is very much part of the West

16:52

part of the north uh of the global North why is that so what is so special

16:59

about Israel I I would like us first to go to something a little absurd just the

17:05

other day an Israeli football team was playing a match in Amsterdam where their

17:12

supporters uh arrived in the city and ran Riot uh tearing down Palestinian

17:17

Flags chanting offensive racist things and then instigating a fight uh against

17:25

the uh supporters of ax the team that was there what was an Israeli team doing

17:31

playing in Amsterdam well Israel plays in the European league but by the way for people who don’t know this Israel is

17:39

in fact in Asia is not in Europe secondly Israel participates in

17:44

Eurovision um Israel is part of Asia it’s not part of Europe but the

17:50

Europeans see Israel as a Garrison a European or white Garrison um that is

17:57

out there like a almost almost like an aircraft carrier in the Arab lands um

18:02

they see Israel as part of them and and I’m I’m saying this now with an

18:08

understanding of the kind of racial or racist metaphysics that Colonial ideology

18:15

produces Israel is Europe in Asia there are so many quotations to this effect

18:22

made by Israeli leaders saying that you know we are a European civilization we

18:28

are a European bastions surrounded by Arabs these are all racist formulations

18:34

you know to call Israel a European part of European civilization is absolutely

18:40

ridiculous what does that mean is it or is it not part of Asia um if it’s part

18:46

of Asia it’s not part of Europe but they don’t mean this geographically the reason Israel is part of Europe is the

18:54

same way Australia is part of Europe Australia also participates in Europe Vision this is a racist metaphysics

19:01

these are white countries um and I don’t think this should be

19:06

underemphasized um they support Israel because it’s a white country fighting against people that they think of as

19:13

dangerous barbarians um and I and I I know I said this before about the international division of humanity but I

19:20

really feel like this gets underplayed and under spoken about in the analysis

19:26

of the genocide against the pales iians that there is an enormous attitude of

19:32

racialist white supremacy that operates here and a kind of assumption in um in

19:40

European and North American countries that somehow the whites of Israel have

19:46

to be defended against the Browns of the Palestinians and that repulses me that

19:52

that is what gives license to Israel to slaughter tens of thousands of people

19:58

including tens of thousands of children um a new report titled hyper

20:05

imperialism a dangerous decadent in New Stage there’s a quote that I would like to read you say it is not a matter of

20:13

exaggerations to say that the global North has declared a state of open hostility and War on any section of the

20:20

global South that does not comply with the policies of the global North what do you mean by this uh

20:27

hostility and War on the global South and where do you see Palestine fits into this so to make the

20:34

point let’s go to Cuba for a minute I just published a book with Nom chsky called on Cuba in the book we make the

20:42

point that the reason the United States is obsessed with this small island with

20:48

only 11 million people less than the people in New York City the reason the

20:53

United States so obsessed is that the Cuban Revolution has been defiant that’s

20:59

a word that the US state department uses it’s Castro’s Defiance that they don’t

21:05

like that’s how they say it and they are worried that that Defiance will become

21:10

contagious so therefore that Defiance has to be destroyed and the way to

21:15

destroy it is to do a blockade against Cuba for now almost 70 years um

21:21

Palestine is actually right in this storyline um it’s very interesting

21:26

because you could make the argument that when the Palestinian leadership which

21:31

had been quite isolated in North Africa you know having been removed from beot

21:37

after the Israelis invaded Lebanon in 1982 the PLO had to leave go to North

21:43

Africa were very detached from U the Palestinian uh occupied Palestinian

21:49

territory you know when the first intifa happens in 87 the blo was really not

21:55

able to understand what was going on their links were not is is tight and so on at the time they go towards the

22:02

agreement which we then know as the Oslo agreements 1994 well you would have thought that

22:09

after 1994 after what Edward S called the Versa of the Palestinians a kind of

22:15

surrender that the Israelis in the global North would have said well there’s no more Defiance the Defiance

22:22

has ended and in fact it is to some extent true that there was a little truce that the PA was allowed to

22:30

establish itself particularly in the West Bank not really in East Jerusalem

22:35

which the Israelis were convinced they would Annex at some point they had land on it built universities and so on and

22:42

Gaza was also a kind of expectation that maybe they could settle things there remember they had settlements and so on

22:49

in Gaza what happens subsequent to that is that there were enough factions of

22:56

the Palestinian resistance movement that did not accept Oso um you know some of

23:01

these were of the left but there were also groups like Islamic Jihad Hamas and

23:07

so on that rejected Oslo and it’s their Defiance that makes this idea of Hamas

23:14

so Central uh to the imagination of the West subsequent to um you know the the

23:21

the the Hamas taking winning the Legislative Assembly elections 2005

23:27

that’s when the bombing start of Gaza you know it’s to actually snuff out

23:33

Defiance by Hamas they defied not only Oslo but they defy the global North now

23:40

this doesn’t mean that it’s about Hamas it’s about Defiance and it’s so

23:46

interesting that the West linked Hamas to Iran very early on you know

23:51

regardless of the West’s stereotypical attitude to the Middle East where they

23:57

say well Shia and sunnis don’t get along I mean Hamas had nothing to do with seism you know it comes out of the

24:04

Muslim Brotherhood tradition it was largely getting financing from Qatar and turkey there was really not much Iranian

24:12

influence at all on Hamas but the United States put together all the elements of

24:18

defiance in the Middle East Hezbollah Hamas you know Iran all in one place all

24:25

that Defiance had to be killed off later when un comes in they say again it’s an

24:30

Iranian proxy I mean now Mr Netanyahu is conducting what I think of is an act of

24:38

gaslighting he wants and he’s been trying desperately to turn the genocide

24:45

against the Palestinians into a war against Iran he wants everybody to think

24:51

that what the Israelis are doing is not murdering Palestinians but protecting

24:57

the west from a defying Iran that’s his gaslighting that was I think the reason

25:02

why they go to Iran to kill a Hamas leader they go and and murder Sayad

25:07

Hassan nasrallah who was in fact you know one of the most beloved leaders in

25:13

the Arab world for the fact that he had resisted against um the Israeli occupation of Lebanon legal resistance

25:20

and had defeated the Israelis in fact twice once by forcing the Israelis to

25:26

leave Lebanon in 2000 and and secondly by not being defeated by the Israeli War

25:31

of 2006 the murder of nasrallah the killing of of of of a number of isra

25:38

Iranian generals to try to provoke Iran into a war and Iran has been extraordinary disciplined knowing that

25:46

entering into this conflict actually benefits Benjamin netan because United

25:51

States will come and clobo Iran so you know this idea of defiance that with

25:58

this is why they want to say look we have nothing against the Palestinians we just want to erase Hamas but in fact

26:05

here’s the crazy thing if you just want to take out Hamas why are you bombing civilian buildings at night because then

26:12

you’re killing entire Palestinian families if you just want to go after Hamas stop the aerial bombardment send

26:19

in your military fight house to house to get to the Hamas people why do you think they kill Palestinian civilians entire

26:27

families well what is justification behind this logic that is I think

26:32

something I’ve already mentioned but I think it’s worthwhile putting it together I think they are focusing

26:38

ideologically that they want to eradicate Hamas because this is the logic of getting rid of defiance that’s

26:46

what Israel is telling the West because the West cannot tolerate Defiance the

26:52

attack on Cuba is similar to the attack on Hamas along those lines don’t permit

26:57

defiance because Defiance can be contagious that’s what they telling the west but what in fact the Israelis are

27:03

doing is pretty straightforward they want to clear out Palestinians from Gaza

27:10

look I’ve said for a long time for over 10 years that Israel will never allow

27:16

Israel will never permit a one-state solution one- State solution goes right

27:22

up against the Israeli idea of the Zionist State they know that if in 10

27:29

years the Palestinian population increases above the Israeli Jewish

27:35

population um that the idea that Israel is a Jewish state is going to not work

27:40

they’d have to accept a bational plurinational in fact because you know

27:45

there will be Armenians and a whole other bunch of peoples um you know it would be a plurinational state of if

27:53

it’s a one state that is unacceptable to the Zionist hardcore leadership

27:58

a two-state solution is largely impossible because you know the settlements in the West Bank have eaten

28:05

the territory East Jerusalem is almost completely annexed and they are now

28:10

emptying Gaza what the Israelis want in fact is a three-state solution um that’s

28:16

what they are going for and the three-state solution is Lebanon Jordan and Egypt they want to push the

28:22

Palestinians out into these territories that’s their goal and they are trying to do it in Gaza in a really systematic way

28:31

you know pushing everybody to Rafa and then you know pushing them along and let’s see how long CC can hold out and

28:39

by the way this is an interesting point how long CC can hold out you know it is

28:44

a message to General Abdul Fat Al CCE to go back and read the record of Egyptian

28:52

history from 1948 to 1952 in 1948 during the nakba um the Egyptians tried to do

29:00

something to help very moderate intervention to help the Palestinians um but then they just sat there and you

29:08

know King Faruk had bought all this equipment from the British they didn’t use it in the war um they just sat on it

29:15

there were Radical low-level officers in the Egyptian Army who began to meet and

29:21

they were frustrated and angry that their Palestinian uh neighbors were not being protected and it was this group

29:29

that then overthrew King Faruk and came to power led by Gamal Abdul Naser

29:35

naser’s coup in 1952 is directly related to Egypt not doing anything to help the

29:42

Palestinians General Abdul fat Eli now president has just sat on his hands he

29:48

has not permitted anything he’s not even permitted I mean look Egypt has bought

29:54

the best of American aircraft why didn’t they just fly F their aircraft across

29:59

Gaza and establish a no-fly zone you know 3 or 4 hours a day fly aircraft

30:05

saying we’re not going to permit they did nothing what is happening in the mid-rank air force of the Egyptian um

30:12

you know armed forces are people where is the next Naser I mean I don’t want to

30:18

suggest anything but I mean for God’s sake the Palestinians pushed up against

30:23

the Rafa border nowhere to go no safe Zone and Egypt didn’t just send the

30:29

tanks to smash the gates and go in and establish a safe Zone you know why didn’t the Egyptian Military enter Rafa

30:36

and say you can’t bomb Rafa you know they did nothing and in the middle of all this for all their Brave talk in the

30:43

Gulf Arab states the Emirate of Qatar decides Hamas has to leave I mean is

30:48

this really the time to buckle under us pressure um it’s quite disgraceful

30:54

actually I’m just saying it very directly but it is quite disgrace ful that given that the Israelis have

31:01

demonstrated that they want to push the Palestinians into Egypt into Lebanon

31:06

into Jordan these countries are doing nothing to assist the Palestinians and

31:12

even to prevent you see why is CCE not opening the gates even just temporarily

31:18

I’m not saying Palestinians want to flee the land because he’s saying that because if he opened the gates then the

31:24

Palestinians will leave to Egypt and that would be the the end of Gaza the E cleans with the Palestinians but he’s

31:29

saying it as if he’s protecting Gaza but in fact he doesn’t want the Palestinians to come to sanay to occupy the sa

31:37

Peninsula that’s not something that they want to see either no of course not yeah so you know whatever he’s saying is not

31:44

true in fact that’s why I’m saying that the Egyptian Army could have entered

31:49

because if Egypt had entered that conflict put sent in the tanks up to say canun and said we want to establish a

31:57

safe Zone it could have been a point of negotiation with the Israelis you know even if Egypt and Jordan had threatened

32:04

to tear up the two peace agreements I’m not saying even tear it up Egypt’s peace agreement goes to 78 Jordan’s to 94 just

32:14

threatened to tear them up and then let’s see the reaction from tele they didn’t even put that on the table so in

32:21

my opinion you said why are the is Israelis bombing civilian targets

32:26

killing because they want to remove all the Palestinians they want to claim the whole territory this is now become a

32:33

completely open Agenda by the isra I think it’s very open it’s very clear since the beginning of the war since

32:39

they started asking not asking uh compelling people to live from the north to the South and so on so it was clear

32:45

that they want to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians but to what extent do you think that this is actually possible

32:52

that they can that they can manage to ethnically cleanse Gaza and just bumb

32:58

the Palestinians to Sinai or in Egypt I mean to be honest with you I don’t want to answer that question because that

33:04

question makes me very upset and sad because what does what does it imply you

33:09

know you know Gaza of course better than me but those of my friends who are in

33:15

Gaza don’t want to leave of course because they say if we leave it’s nagba number 100 okay you know during this

33:22

terrible genocide the great lebonese novelist ilas kurri died uh as kurri um

33:29

you know who wrote a great novel about Palestine also used to say there was

33:34

never a nakba there was no nbar of 1948 there is a permanent nbar you know that

33:41

concept of the permanent nbba stays with me yeah so people say we don’t want to leave because the permanent NBA means we

33:49

can never come back and so if we accept that and if people are not going to leave if tomorrow the Egyptians by some

33:56

strange thing open the gate and people say we still won’t leave will the Israelites kill them all you know right

34:03

now the world is not stopping the bombing so then the answer to your

34:09

question is well they’ll just kill everybody you know they’ll kill everybody I mean the other day I was

34:16

explaining to some people if you never been to a war zone there are two elements of war that are often neglected

34:23

you know in terms of explaining to people one is the noise it’s Earth shattering you know the sound of War

34:30

children are terrorized for their whole life their whole life they are they suffer from PTSD you know because the

34:36

noise which happens at night see it it was acceptable or understandable that in

34:42

an earlier era if I had the means to shoot down a plane then you bomb at night it’s understand but now nobody can

34:50

fire at Israeli plane they still bomb at night and they bomb people sleeping in their homes that’s why so many children

34:56

are dying yeah they still bombing this is terrifying because you don’t know you know when a bomb Falls there’s that

35:03

sound and then the explosion right next to you over there you don’t know if you are next it’s terrorizing second thing

35:10

is the dust it’s hard to explain to people all modern buildings are made with epoxy with plastic with all kinds

35:18

of chemicals and so on when you bomb a building the dust is everywhere and even

35:24

survivors are breathing it so now you have 2.3 Palestinian 2.3 million

35:29

Palestinians yeah you’ve got maybe 60 70,000 the numbers are so unclear let’s

35:34

say 100,000 dead um of the remaining 2.2 million Palestinians everybody has

35:42

breathed in these toxic fumes everybody’s going to die before their

35:47

time okay so the genocide has been complete already yeah yeah it’s already

35:52

done it’s just that people are not going to die for you know immediately but

35:57

they’re going to die shorter than their lifespan that is horrendous so the ethnic cleansing the force displacement

36:06

all of these routine crimes against humanity which amount to genocide all of

36:12

this is happening right now answer to your question if people don’t run I

36:17

think they’re going to try to kill them which is why stopping the Israelis now and stopping the Americans now is

36:24

absolutely paramark what do you think is the core of this Annihilation and violence

36:29

wielded against these Palestinians today because we talked about political

36:35

and economics and ethnic cleansing and and genocide what what do you think the

36:41

core of all of these of this Annihilation is it theh humanization or something else I mean it is this idea of

36:48

the international division of humanity it really is you know it’s the idea of

36:53

of eviction you know you can you you why should look let me go back hundreds of

37:00

years um when the when the first English Pioneers so-called Pioneers landed in

37:06

North America um They seized the land um John Lock was an English nobleman he

37:13

owned a lot of land in Virginia um while he was a land owner in Virginia with

37:18

slaves and so on Lo wrote one of the most important texts of liberalism and

37:24

that is the two treaties on government you know it’s a text taught to Children the second tretis is a really important

37:31

text and the best part of it is often not given to people to read in the in

37:36

the Second Treatise John Lock argues that God gave nature to humans to

37:45

improve and if humans don’t improve nature then they don’t have a right to

37:51

it they can be removed from it and those who want to improve nature should take

37:56

it over yeah this racist idea which validated the expropriation of native

38:03

land in the Americas it’s at the heart of liberalism right you know this idea

38:09

that the people who are natives are not exploiting nature so get rid of them

38:15

exploit nature this idea lingers in a kind of um civilization you know Western

38:22

Civilization that continues to see those who don’t quote unquote improved nature

38:28

should be removed I mean look firstly it’s ridiculous because Gaza was a highly developed Gaza City is a highly

38:35

developed City it had universities it had everything it had malls for goodness sake with escalators and fountains and

38:43

you know all the things you’d imagine so it was not like the Palestinians were

38:48

you know living in tents and so on they had worked hard to develop and build a

38:53

civilization in fact when I was in Gaza I was so pleased to to see a large number of art galleries of um you know

39:00

people loved painting and museums and you know all of that but they still

39:06

manag to convey to people outside that Gaza is a refugee camp and the

39:11

Palestinians they are living like Savages and therefore let’s remove them all and build hotels Resorts uh you know

39:20

Coastal property for the Israelis not for the palestin no not for the because the Palestinians don’t know how to do

39:25

that that’s the implication deserve to live they don’t deserve to live because they can’t live like you know people on

39:32

that other side of the international division of humanity and by the way they are saying it directly they are saying

39:38

it you know people who have been to the Mediterranean they understand how beautiful the Mediterranean is um the is

39:46

Palestinians who live in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem grow up never having seen the sea because they are not

39:53

allowed through the past restrictions most of them are not allowed to enter into 48 Israel and go to the beaches

40:00

where Tel Aviv and so on is they’ve never seen the sea it’s the Palestinians in Gaza who get an opportunity to go

40:07

into the sea and it is really compellingly beautiful children playing

40:13

football on the beaches of Gaza an Israeli plane flies over them and five

40:19

little boys are mowed to death while they play football um you know and then what do the Palestinian artists do they

40:26

go to the beach Beach and they make a beautiful beach sculpture of the five boys playing football that was 10 years

40:34

ago you know and and then the vision comes they don’t deserve to use these beaches these beaches must be owned by

40:41

the big multinational hotel chains they have to be owned by the extremely rich

40:47

Israeli families Palestinians don’t deserve the beach because as John lock

40:52

says they haven’t used the beach like God intended which is private property

40:58

giant houses for the rich instead the beaches of Gaza were open to

41:04

everybody wow okay let me go back to the to this report you produced

41:11

recently uh allow me to read this very long quote and maybe we need to spend

41:17

some time exing to explaining it to to us please so he said over the last 20

41:23

years the global North has endured a significant uh relative economic decline among along

41:31

with political social and moral decline it is false its false moral claims of

41:36

civil rights and impressive Freedom are now complete mockeries as they seek to make illegal the public including online

41:44

support for Palestinian rights this fullon support for the humiliation and

41:50

destruction of the darker people of the world is reminiscent of past centuries

41:55

exposing what can be described as colle Ive white fragility there is a lot that we need to entangle here but can you

42:02

explain to us what is the economic decline that the global North is facing right now we’re enduring well since

42:09

2006 the you know the capitalist countries of Europe and the United

42:14

States have been in the middle of a major depression I mean they don’t call it a depression because they have

42:21

created a definition of a depression which is three cycles of downward growth

42:28

this is not sufficient I mean these countries are unable to demonstrate a growth rate the reason it’s not a

42:35

depression is if your growth rate is near zero it’s not going to go down any further it’s basically sitting around

42:41

zero 1% 1.2% you know the this is a nothing

42:46

growth rate uh these economies are significantly hemorrhaging I mean we are sitting in London and talking in the

42:53

United Kingdom they decided let’s build highspeed rail that will go from Edinburgh to Manchester down from

43:01

Manchester to London then you know from Edinburgh I think to leads into London a

43:06

kind of diamond shape and from London all the way to Paris and then to rail

43:11

networks in Europe they had to cancel it I mean in fact at the conservative conference former conservative leader

43:19

Rishi sunak had to go there and say no more highspeed rail to manchest embarrassing they can’t even build a

43:25

train in Germany the train system is gone for a six doesn’t exist anymore

43:30

it’s in really bad shape United States I mean look you know between Beijing and

43:36

Shanghai it used to take 34 hours to go by train now it takes 4 hours and the

43:42

train is fantastic from 34 hours to 4 hours okay the train runs at 300 km an

43:49

hour in the United States the train runs at about 100 km an hour I mean I’m using

43:54

trains as an example but we can talk about other things you know want to talk about phones you want to talk about

44:00

solar energy in all these areas the West is no longer the dominant player in

44:06

producing modern technology their economies are in Decline I mean the you

44:12

can see it walking around the streets it seems like this is a civilization that’s

44:17

willing to tolerate having people without homes you know living on the street it’s willing to tolerate

44:23

childhood poverty increasing United Kingdom childhood poverty is gone up United States childhood poverty is gone

44:30

up these are situations of decline meanwhile at the same time China has

44:35

eradicated absolute poverty uh they have these highspeed rails I mean the the I’m

44:40

just comparing the two to make a point the quote you read ends with a phrase white fragility this is a very important

44:48

concept for me what do this referred to I mean you know there was a feeling that

44:53

if the United States puts enough pressure on China ch China might reverse some of its gains they might de

45:00

accelerate recently the University of Chicago Professor um John mimer said in

45:07

an interview that he thinks it’s too late that China will now no longer be

45:12

able to be pushed back you know and the United States uses that for gain the only way the US can push China back is

45:19

if the US uses its military power to bomb all of China it’s very unlikely that they’re willing to risk a nuclear

45:27

um war on the other hand white fragility there is a fragility involved here they

45:33

cannot tolerate the fact that they are just other people on the planet Earth I

45:39

mean what is so special what is so special about the people in the United

45:44

States nothing is special there are people just like you and me number of homeless people well there’s that but I

45:51

mean they are just people like us there is no international division of humanity we are just people so I mean the only

45:58

way for the United States to come to terms with the fact that it’s not going to be the leading economy it’s not going

46:05

to be the main political power and so on is if the people realize that they are

46:11

just like everybody else nothing special but because they’re not able to realize that uh there is this white fragility

46:18

that blocks everything and this is that idea that how can we become Ordinary People we are special so that’s why that

46:25

term white fragility is there creates a kind of uh sensibility that you know one

46:30

mustn’t uh make us ordinary we are special you’re not special you’re not

46:36

special there’s no difference between somebody in Germany and a Palestinian

46:42

nothing different you’re both people you know there’s nothing Superior about you

46:48

and I’m actually quite fed up listening to European and US politicians talk as

46:53

if they are superior to the rest of us you know lecture us about human rights and so on I don’t want to hear an

46:59

American president ever again lecture me about human rights why 100% yeah because

47:05

they have been sending 2,000 bombs to the Israelis to bomb Palestinian children I don’t you know from now till

47:12

the end of time the Germans need to stop talking about human rights my family did

47:18

not participate in doing a holocaust against anybody okay I have no roots you

47:23

know their civilization actually did Holocaust first in Namibia it killed the

47:30

um the Herrero and Nama people between 1904 and 1906 a genocide then they

47:36

killed Jews Gypsies Communists but mainly Jews um in the Gen in the

47:42

Holocaust in in Germany and in Eastern Europe that was the Germans and also the

47:47

white people killed each other in the World War I and World War II they slaughtered each other with mustard gas

47:53

and whatever I don’t want them to lecture us on human rights okay we are developing you know what’s human rights

48:01

nobody living on the street that’s human rights if um K stama who’s supposed to

48:07

be a great human rights lawyer wants to lecture about human rights let him first

48:12

eradicate uh the problem of people having no homes in London in fact in his

48:18

own constituency in London where I was today and I saw people living on the

48:25

street true tell us more about the moral decline

48:30

that you also mentioned in this quote Yeah I mean it’s related to this you know there’s a moral um there’s a

48:36

attempted moral superiority yeah so for instance uh they will lecture us about

48:42

human rights in Iran or they lecture us about how Hamas has a bad attitude to

48:48

women and this and that bad attitude to women women are dying under American bombs okay you want to you want to

48:55

criticize the Iranians because they are saying oh you know you should cover your hair women are dying under us bombs I

49:03

don’t want you to tell me about how much hair should be shown or not shown okay you are obliterating people’s heads and

49:11

then lecturing us about the hijab or about whatever this is this is the moral

49:17

decline the moral decline is they still think they are superior when in fact

49:23

they are participating in genocides again I want to underline this this is not a Israeli genocide this is an

49:30

Israeli us European genocide I think it’s very wrong to cons we should poor

49:36

Benjamin Netanyahu shouldn’t bear the whole blame for this Olaf Schulz Emanuel macron K stama before him Rishi sunak

49:44

you know Joe Biden after him Donald Trump all of them all of them should be

49:49

sitting in a prison cell in the international criminal court is Gaza a

49:54

warning to the Future and why should people in the west be concerned about what’s happening in Gaza and the genocide in Gaza well a couple of things

50:02

one is yes Gaza is a warning in the same way as what is being done to the Cuban

50:08

Revolution is a warning if you defy the West they will whack you they are like a

50:13

mafia they don’t tolerate any Defiance you know anybody who defies will be hit

50:19

but it’s also a warning to the West that you know your plans of eradicating

50:24

defiance are not going to win you know you can kill as many people as you want

50:29

okay tomorrow they’ve destroyed Hamas but just a reminder to people in the west Hamas was created in the 1980s um

50:38

this struggle for Palestinian Liberation starts in the 1930s you know with the

50:44

Revolt of of of 1930 1936 36 Revolt the Palestine Revolt it

50:52

starts then it’s 12 years before the the nakba you know the revolt has a long

50:57

history British mandate against the British mandate against the selling of land to Colonials and so on it’s a very

51:04

long history there was no Hamas in 1936 there was no Hamas in 48 there was no

51:09

Hamas in 67 there was no Hamas in 73 Hamas comes in the 1980s so I think they

51:16

might eradicate Hamas today but they’re not eradicating the Palestinian resistance it will take its form and for

51:24

those who believe that if Hamas goes every ends you’re not watching what happened in China the Chinese brought

51:30

together 14 Palestinian factions to sit down for the first time in decades and

51:36

build a common agenda and platform it’s not about Hamas anymore it’s about the Palestinian resistance and that is not

51:44

gone that is intact and will reappear immediately do you think that the the

51:51

lift in the west has failed Gaza trade unions and workers movements all around

51:56

the world do you think they have failed Gaza I don’t think they’ve failed Gaza I think that they’re up against something

52:02

difficult you know trade unions in India the Dockers Union said we will not load ships with weapons to Israel um I think

52:10

the Belgian unions the Union in in Western Australia lots of unions did

52:16

things South Africa and so on I think the rolling demonstrations in the United

52:21

States have played a major role in changing Global Consciousness you know every day in New York City there’s some

52:28

demonstration in front of the New York Times in you know when I went to two of them in in the United States very large

52:35

sincere young people very angry in the halls of the US Congress there’s always somebody from Cod pink or from one of

52:42

the groups interrupting saying this is a genocide why are you supporting genocide similarly in Europe there’s been

52:49

constant you know but in a sense this left is too weak it’s not strong enough

52:57

I mean to confront the US war machine will take something else it it will take

53:02

a a shift in the geal political balance of forces I mean a million people

53:08

demonstrated in New York City to prevent the US from going into an illegal war

53:13

against the Iraqi people in 2003 and George Bush just set it aside you know I

53:19

don’t think and I’m a little pessimistic about the ability of movements in the

53:24

global North to change the balance of forces on their own I think the rise of

53:29

India Indonesia China you know the appearance of countries on the African

53:35

continent being very brave I think the um the kind of the clarity of the

53:41

Colombian government of Gustavo Pro and so on I think this is changing the

53:46

balance of forces um I don’t think the left in the west workers movements and

53:52

so on can do it on their own but this pressure from outside you know the mexic government now of Claudia shine bomb

53:59

before of Andres Manuel Lopez auor this is changing the conversation you know

54:05

the fact that South Africa goes to the international court of justice and is backed by the Latin American governments

54:11

I think sends a really strong message to the global North that the world is no

54:17

longer taking leadership from London or Paris or Washington or Brussels people

54:22

are not interested they’re looking elsewhere for leadership in fact they’re looking to the elves the ketas in the

54:28

sahil region you know that go from uh from from Mali out to ner these

54:34

governments fierce in their determination to have an independent foreign policy I mean India is an

54:40

interesting case in point India has not supported Israel in this war India right

54:46

through this period has called for the two-state solution which effectively means no annexation of Gaza that’s an

54:53

important gesture now it’s also true that they allow workers to go to Israel and you know

54:58

it’s complicated but they didn’t take a position which I thought they would take they stayed within the realm of the

55:05

bricks position which is supporting a two-state solution calling for a ceasefire the world is changing the West

55:12

is no longer going to be able to dictate its terms without using force and that’s

55:18

why in that report that you you you you you read from that’s why we call it a

55:23

decadent and dangerous global North because it is decadent because its

55:29

leaders don’t Inspire they don’t have any ideas they are basically mediocre

55:35

useless people and it’s dangerous because they can’t Inspire their only

55:40

instrument is war and that’s what they go go to you know all they know is war

55:47

and that cannot win them the respect of the world in fact it increases their

55:52

decadence so their decadence and their dangerousness goes together in a spiral

55:58

downwards what does a liberated Palestine mean to the region and will capitalism allow of free Palestine I I

56:06

don’t know about the second point will capitalism allow free Palestine but I know for a fact that imperialism will

56:13

not uh it will not want to see a free Palestine I mean this is bringing us to

56:18

a very complicated area because in a sense it’s hard to imagine what is a

56:25

free Palestine there are so many people who promote the idea of the one state solution you know a kind of L shaped

56:33

country uh which includes all of historical Palestine the Golan you know

56:38

goes back to Syria um perhaps meta’s finger goes back to Lebanon and the rest

56:44

remains a Palestine where all the people live in a kind of plurinational system

56:50

um I don’t know if that is going to be possible with a without a lot more struggle I mean in a sense this is not a

56:57

struggle of the Palestinians I think the Palestinians would accept a one-state solution this is a struggle within

57:04

Israeli Society Israeli Society has decayed it has distorted itself it has

57:10

become a military Society Zionism is no longer Zionism it’s gun Zionism it’s a

57:17

militarized form of Zionism it’s a Zionism of settlers with guns who

57:22

intimidate other people it is a Zionism that has come to believe the biblical

57:28

prophecy as real all of that has to be undone culturally in Israel before you

57:34

can think about a one state um so short of that yes you can have enclaves called

57:40

free Palestine but look frankly Gaza over here the West Bank over there maybe

57:46

a part of East this is not liberated Palestine this is a joke I mean you’re not even following Oslo and creating

57:54

ability for people to go between the West Bank and Gaza these are little tiny statelets this is South Africa in the

58:01

last days of apide you know building the Frontline States this is not real um

58:07

it’s not a Palestinian problem we don’t actually we’re not at the threshold of a

58:12

Palestinian problem this region the Levant faces an Israeli problem Israel

58:19

has a problem it has a cultural problem it has to deal with its own population

58:24

um there is no problem in Palestine culturally so I I don’t think Palestinians need to move very much you

58:32

know in terms of cultural um thinking about the future Israel has to move

58:38

miles and I’m not sure it has the capacity uh right now to move it doesn’t

58:43

have the intellectual leadership to move it doesn’t have the political leadership it certainly doesn’t have the moral

58:49

leadership nobody seems to be willing to stand up there and confront the rot of

58:55

guns iism everybody is with it I mean the difference between y have Galant and

59:01

Benjamin Neto is zero I mean it’s about tactics not about gun Zionism I I cannot

59:07

find a politician in Israel today who will stand up clearly against gun

59:13

Zionism they all United in that and that is the downfall of of of the Israeli

59:19

moral project um there’s no room for a moral project anymore this is a military

59:25

project Israel is becoming a military Garrison and that’s what it’ll have to

59:31

survive as it’s a Garrison State it has no moral claim to the world any longer

59:37

it’s like it has become the battleship you know of of the West right there it’s

59:43

like a ship sitting off the coast of the mediterran you know of the Mediterranean Coastline um they don’t have the

59:50

capacity right now to transform themselves and that really is the tragedy of of Palestine that is a

59:58

tragedy for Palestine and that’s a tragedy for the Israelis themselves I mean for the Israelis it’s a greater

1:00:04

tragedy because the their capacity to be moral beings is in question there is no

1:00:11

such problem for the pal which is why I said the Palestinians are ready to take

1:00:16

the next step forward but the Israelis are not and that moral capacity you know

1:00:21

to meet the Palestinians and build a society together is just not there they

1:00:26

want to create Israel as a giant gated community in fact as I said earlier a giant military Camp you know and and

1:00:34

that’s not sustainable uh in the world you know people will not permit that Colombia which used to supply 60% of

1:00:43

Israel’s coal has this August stopped sending coal to Israel at all there will

1:00:49

be no more coal going from Gustavo Petro Colombia to Israel that means 60% of

1:00:55

Israel supply of coal has gone other countries are filling it in for now South Africa strangely seem to be

1:01:01

filling in the Gap there’s a lot of pressure from the trade unions from KATU and num to prevent any South African

1:01:09

coal going to Israel when that gets cut off um you know the next Supply is

1:01:14

Russia will Russia stop supplying coal to Israel if you don’t have a moral place in the world people are just going

1:01:21

to stop um supplying you then it’s up to the United States or maybe the Europe the the Europeans don’t have access to

1:01:27

energy where are they going to get coal from will it come from Australia it’ll be enormously expensive these are the

1:01:33

kind of compelling ways in which gun Zionism will find itself

1:01:39

isolated lastly do you think there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the

1:01:44

Palestinians of course there’s a light at the end of the tunnel there’s a light of the at the end of the tunnel for all

1:01:50

human beings all human beings have a light at the end of the tunnel I mean look we have to also remember that

1:01:58

millions of Palestinians live outside the region they are part of the Palestinian permanent exiled Community I

1:02:06

live in Santiago in Chile in Chile there are half a million Palestinians you know they have a football team the

1:02:13

Palestinians um there is always going to be a Palestinian flag flying somewhere

1:02:19

in the world the question you’re asking is a different one is there a future for

1:02:24

Palestine um and I think that’s a complicated question Palestinians will live forever because I don’t think that

1:02:32

families exiled permanently in the United States or in in you know in

1:02:38

Britain Palestinian families will not any longer tell their children you are a Palestinian we come from you know from

1:02:45

nabiis we come from Bethlehem we come from here there don’t forget it you know

1:02:51

this kafia is a color that reflects our part of these memories are going to

1:02:56

remain you know the the traditions of food and culture will remain why because this the people has got a moral claim on

1:03:04

the world so I don’t think Palestinians don’t have a future Palestinians have a future the idea of Palestine has a

1:03:11

future does the territory of Palestine have a future that is a very difficult

1:03:18

thing to answer because that has again nothing to do with the Palestinians it has everything to do with the moral

1:03:24

collapse of Israel if Israel can rejuvenate itself then perhaps there

1:03:30

will be a state with Israelis and Palestinians in that territory um you

1:03:36

know I worry that in the short term what will a gun Zionist government do to

1:03:42

things like the alaka mosque I mean these are very dangerous times dangerous

1:03:48

provocative things can be done there are dangerously provocative far right-wing

1:03:53

Israeli groups that could do of Terror against Im Just unbelievably important

1:04:01

places that are within their territorial control so I don’t know where this goes

1:04:06

but I do hope you know for the sake of all of us that Israel finds a way to

1:04:12

rejuvenate society and some moral Force appears and basically attacks and

1:04:17

destroys gun Zionism and creates Humanity an Israeli Humanity that is not

1:04:23

committed to massacring entire peoples F thank you very very very much for

1:04:29

joining us that was very powerful and Illuminating it’s a pleasure for me to be here thanks a lot thank you very

1:04:37

much as Israel attempts to erase the Palestinian people under the cover of Darkness targeting journalists and

1:04:44

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oooooo

Geure herriari, Euskal Herriari dagokionez, hona hemen gure apustu bakarra:

We Basques do need a real Basque independent State in the Western Pyrenees, just a democratic lay or secular state, with all the formal characteristics of any independent State: Central Bank, Treasury, proper currency¹, out of the European Distopia and faraway from NATO, maybe being a BRICS partner…

1 This way, our new Basque government will have infinite money to deal with. (Gogoratzekoa: Moneta jaulkitzaileko kasu guztietan, Gobernuak infinitu diru dauka.)