From the River to the Sea: Ibaitik Itsasora (10)

Ibaitik Itsasora

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sarah@sahouraxo

ots. 18

The Biggest Lie in History

‘Blot’ on Powell’s record: Lies to the UN about Iraq’s weapons Powell used his reputation for credibility to help convince the world Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat, but the US intel was false.

On February 5, 2003, as the United States was preparing to invade Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell made a pivotal presentation to the United Nations Security Council claiming Saddam Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

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SilencedSirs@SilentlySirs

Ryan Rozbiani@RyanRozbiani

Angelo Giuliano 安德龙@angeloinchina

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Suppressed News.@SuppressedNws

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They Tried to Silence Her – They Failed | Francesca Albanese’s Berlin Keynote on Gaza Genocide

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVxvrGVxuis)

Despite police intimidation and last-minute venue changes, Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, delivered a historic speech in Berlin, at an event organised by DiEM25, Jewish Voice for a Just Peace in the Middle East, Eye4palestine and the Gaza Committee Berlin.

After the original venue was pressured into canceling the event, Junge Welt stepped in at the last minute to ensure this critical discussion could take place. But those who sought to silence it failed. Over 2,700 people tuned in live throughout the 8 hours of proceedings as Albanese exposed the brutal reality: the genocide in Gaza is undeniable, Germany is complicit, and free speech and international law are under attack.

This is a must-watch for anyone who believes in justice and refuses to be silenced.

Transkripzioa:

0:00

just to make sure we are safe can you confirm that police is here

0:05

to protect all of us good so I have the great pleasure of

0:13

welcoming Franchesca Alan United Nations special rapporter

0:22

for human rights in the occupied Palestinian territories and uh before I

0:28

hand over to Franchesca for some preliminary remarks I would just like to inform everyone that at the last at the

0:35

last update that I received we had 1,700 people viewing the live

0:46

stream so this this may be a small room but uh the virtual space we are

0:52

occupying is a large one so without further Ado Franchesca please speak to

0:58

us [Applause]

1:04

you are not police right

1:10

camouflaging okay so I have to

1:16

admit that about 75 hours in this

1:23

country have made me pretty nervous I can’t wait to go back to

1:29

peaceful tunia because the situation is bad for

1:37

freedom of expression pretty much everywhere and still I’ve never felt

1:43

this uh sense of lacking oxygen as I do here so please please I know you’re very

1:51

happy to see me love you makes sense yes but it’s not I mean I’m

1:59

someone who speaks of genocide and there is a genocide ongoing and it doesn’t matter how much how much genocide

2:07

denialism there is we need to be really aware aware aware of what we need to do

2:12

all together because I really want to be heard loud and clear before we start talking about what I came to know the

2:19

most genocide this year I want to say a few

2:25

things on which I absolutely don’t want to be Tak wrong and misquoted but then

2:32

of course I will be misquoted so it is a great pleasure for me to be with you today and I wish to thank DM Jewish

2:40

voice for a just piece in the Middle East eer Palestine and Gaza comit for

2:45

their immense [Applause] work stop

2:53

it for their immense work in bringing this meeting together and for inviting me to be here in Berlin I’m I’m sure you

2:59

have have the Gratitude of so many for creating this platform for many to come together to speak on one of the most

3:06

urgent issues of our time without your courage and dedication we would not be here today although although for the

3:13

venue we must thank yelt who has given the event last minute Asylum and of

3:22

course you are unruly and of course we have to also

3:28

acknowledge these Ambassador pro-israel groups and professionals mirrors in

3:34

Germany a number of German politicians including the city mayor Berlin Police

3:39

without whose rentless work and pressure and intimidation we would be in another

3:45

much bigger venue I know how you feel I feel it too somewhat even though the

3:51

intimidation has gotten on my nerves but not yet under my skin and with German

3:56

authorities permission I plan to return as I said to the safety of my home in

4:03

tanisia before this changes we should not fear

4:08

words we shall fear crimes those that commit them and those that deny who deny

4:15

them and as we proceed I must acknowledge that some of the words I will speak today might be heavy I

4:22

recognize that many of you carry significant pain and it is with this awareness that I ask for your patience

4:28

and understanding as as we explore these difficult subjects please know that my

4:34

intention is not to add that pain but to bring light healing and perhaps a sense of solidarity as we move forward

4:41

together and you as are as you are all aware my presence in Germany this um yeah few days has been controversial for

4:48

many universities the beacon of free speech the crowle of free debate where

4:56

people can also disagree right have celed events where I was supposed to give talks on lectures without any

5:03

warning warning let alone an apology that’s rude the organizers in many cases

5:10

have had to switch venues at the last minute facing threats condemnation and harassment on the street and

5:17

online hopefully not on site as if I were someone advocating for hate or

5:23

someone wanted by by the international criminal court for war crimes and crimes

5:29

against humanity instead I’m just a legal expert appointed by the United Nations to

5:34

document and report on the violations committed by Israel this is what the the the resolution creating my mandate says

5:42

even if I also document the violations committed by Hamas and the Palestinian

5:48

Authority I’m the eighth special reporter to do this after illustrious jurists such as John Dugard Richard folk

5:56

and Michael link and the first woman to serve in this position after 33 years it

6:02

is in this cap this is where you

6:11

applaud I really W want to to chill a little bit because it’s heavy it is in

6:16

this capacity that I came to Berlin I arried here this is something I’m saying just to remind everyone that I came as a

6:23

special repor still representing the United Nations if there is an inch of respect for this institution that is

6:29

left in this country I arrive here after traveling across northern Europe and being gen generally welcome even where

6:36

pro-israel groups succeeded to have some cave in to their pressure and Mafia style

6:42

techniques and I’m shocked to see how absurd the world that we live in has become where impartiality to the facts

6:49

and the requirements of international law generate more controversy than the killing maming torturing raping starving

6:56

burning alive and entire people are such for 16 months and Counting and yet this

7:03

is the world we live in but so before getting into the debate what is impartiality and what

7:10

does it mean what it is what is it not because this is something that I would like you to carry after with you after

7:18

this uh wonderful afternoon together impartiality for human rights Defenders

7:24

investigators and monitors like myself ands an obligation to investigate and establish the facts

7:30

objectively studying everything that is brought to our knowledge against applicable international law once the

7:38

assessment is done my my job is not to be equidistant from the parties whatever

7:43

it is but to insist on measures to restore legality to undo Injustice and

7:48

prevent further abuses in the case of Palestine it is overwhelmingly documented that Israel commits

7:55

intentionally and as a matter of State policy the gravest human rights offenses as part of its long-standing plan to

8:02

maintain control over what Israeli human rights organization bethleem not be bet

8:09

Salem has called a regime quote a regime of Jewish Supremacy from the Jordan

8:15

River to the Mediterranean Sea foot stop end of quote

8:24

impartiality impartiality cannot be used as a pompous name for indifference and elegant name for ignorance impartiality

8:32

is not about maintaining the pretense of both Sidis in the face of international atrocities of maintaining as I was

8:38

saying an equidistant position between conflicting parties even when their position uh positions are structurally

8:45

and historically unequal when one side occupies de predates and oppresses and

8:50

the other is being occupied depredated and dispossessed this is a recipe for disaster and violence impartiality is

8:58

not neutrality neutrality meaning maintaining an equidistant position between conflicting

9:04

parties even when their positions might not be equal and usually to deliver life saving Aid it’s on my mandate and not

9:13

even that of universities and not even that of your politicians our job is not to stay neutral our job is to stay uh

9:21

truthful to international law this is what all of us have in common and I st Fir and I stand firmly

9:28

on the ival human rights of respected or respect for life and human dignity and whenever it is the case that a state is

9:35

being allowed with impunity to violate these rights I must speak up firmly on the side of the oppressed if those who

9:42

found my presence tonight controversial could understand this basic principle

9:47

the difference between impartiality and neutrality perhaps there would be far less controversy in the first place and

9:54

of course there should be understanding and contamination for what has happened to Israeli civilians during the brutal

9:59

attack that Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups carried out on October 7 2023 as there should be understanding

10:06

and condemnation for the massacres violence and oppression that the Palestinians have exper experienced

10:12

since the NABA and before the nakba resistant on Resistance and opposition to which are certainly not spared the

10:19

Israelis but here we are in an era where speaking out of human rights has become a hateful act or even a crime where

10:26

truth is a lie and lie is a truth that is used to justif if y this I mean I

10:31

don’t see anyone but I was prepared to see more police however Orwells famous

10:36

Orwell’s famous Proclamation that war is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strength and of quote has never been

10:42

more true than in the discourse surrounding Israel and palestin this brings me to the elephant

10:48

in the room the genocide that Israel has been allowed to commit after 56 years of

10:53

unlawful occupation of Palestine and 77 years since the massic cleansing of the

11:01

an event that was in ways IR familiar in the present day carried out I mean massacr and destructions that have been

11:07

recounted by its victims nakba survivors but also recorded in the testimonies of

11:13

its perpetrators in some instances or documented in Israeli archives and brought to light by diligent and honest

11:20

Israeli historians and architect who were able to access those archives for brief period of time some

11:27

30 years ago for even the most sophisticated and experienced practitioners of double speak this truth

11:33

is no longer possible to deny I just want to point to one one thing and then we move to into the discussion regarding

11:39

what I mean the topic of today uh genocide in July 20124 the international

11:46

court of justice has recognized Beyond any reasonable doubt that the occupation that Israel maintained in Gaza the West

11:53

Bank and E Jerusalem is unlawful and must be relinquished totally and unconditionally the troops the military

12:00

baracks so military presence but also the civilian presence all the settlements must be

12:06

dismantled which doesn’t mean that there will be an uprooting of all Jewish

12:11

people res uh living in uh in the occupied Palestinian territory but the land is to be returned to their owners

12:17

and perhaps the Jewish Israelis who are there may want to rent instead of stealing and leaving as Palestinians if

12:24

there is a Palestinian state

12:30

and this is not even new this is not even new everyone knew that the

12:35

occupation was unlawful and not just for violations of international law here and there because Israel kidnapped children

12:42

and adults including in the middle of the night and put them in jail for for days weeks months and years until they

12:51

confessed crimes that they not committed and not just because of torturing demolishing homes killing

12:59

people arbitrarily no not because of that the occupation is unlawful because

13:05

by its very presence it prevents the Palestinians from enjoying the right of self-determination the right to exist as

13:10

a people free to determine themselves as a people which is still being contested

13:16

and it shouldn’t be confused with a two- State solution because the this is the

13:21

political consensus that has formed so that the Palestinians have the right exclusive rights to a state independent

13:29

state in the land that remains but nonetheless nonetheless any other rights

13:34

mean lose meanings and becomes an exercise of intellectual rhetoric without the right of self-determination

13:40

so in the face of this groundbreaking advisory opinion which has confirmed what everyone knew it is the obligation

13:46

not only of the German government but every German person including those having businesses living in the

13:52

settlements uh working as soldiers in the Israeli occupation forces not to do

13:57

that anymore otherwi they might face consequences and this is where we are

14:02

today and instead of working on these and seeing how to abide by these uh

14:08

incredibly important uh advisory opinion the government of this country continues

14:13

to repress the critical voices that ask for accountability

14:32

thank you very much for those preliminary remarks no doubt we’ll get back to some of those points uh again

14:39

later but what I wanted to ask you about and uh well this is the title of this

14:45

part of the program international law in the face of the Gaza

14:51

genocide and something that’s often been spoken about over the last 16 months by

14:56

yourself and by many actors of all sorts legal experts or

15:02

Civil Society figures uh activists is that the very concept of

15:09

international law has been under attack because the genocide has been allowed to

15:16

take place and measures that have been set in motion to stop

15:23

it have also not achieved that result the world has let it happen and many

15:29

feel that international law has become impotent

15:36

and even though in the decades since the

15:42

United Nations were founded and we had the establishment of the Geneva Geneva conventions and the various pillars of

15:48

international law were built up of course this is not the first time that a

15:53

power allied with the so-called West has chosen not to abide by international law

15:59

and recent decades have seen many other cases the invasion of Iraq Afghanistan Libya Etc so how is the situation

16:07

different now how what additional or greater damage has been done to

16:13

international law and how does one continue to work with the standard of international law um from now

16:22

on uh first of all let me clarify uh a couple of things and then

16:27

we will have the opportunity to talk about what constitutes genocide because there seem to be much confusion in this

16:33

country so should I say that now or can we get back to this later think we can

16:39

get back to it later perfect as long as you say that and so in international law

16:45

is a set of norms that member states have agreed upon uh either through treaties or that

16:52

they have developed as Customs as practice believed to be compliance with

16:58

um general principles of Law and Humanity so what constitute constitutes

17:04

international law is a is is a normative framework intended to prevent violations

17:11

and to correct violations so it’s a normative and remedial it has a normative and remedial

17:17

function aside of it but complementary is the system that is there to uh to

17:25

regulate the conduct of States it’s and uh so it’s the multi atal order which is

17:30

to be regulated um by International Norms so

17:36

while international law has been selectively applied system more or less

17:42

system systemically violated um today we see the the depth

17:49

of it and we see the system behind it I believe in the sense that it’s clear

17:55

that the system has never I mean the multilateral order the general assembly which is now more democratic that it was

18:01

77 years ago for example um when the United Nations system was created it was

18:07

made of about 50 53 States and now it’s uh it’s made of 193 States so clearly it

18:15

has changed but the the center of power it has not changed the system that was

18:22

birthed as uh as dominated by the colonial the colonial world like Europe

18:29

and European offsprings like Australia New Zealand

18:34

um the United States and Canada and of course the the first colonies the first

18:40

settler Colonial realities where so many genocides that been committed Latin America and Central and Latin America

18:47

sorry Latin Latin America I mean these were also part of the system but the center of power was with the West what

18:54

we would call today properly West and remains there so I think that the face with live in has exposed

19:02

how an unequal the how unequal the system is how he cannot serve as is the

19:09

interest of everyone in an in the face of a of [Music]

19:15

a fundamentally now um multi sorry um unipolar order where the the United

19:22

States dictate pretty much what is uh to be done and what’s not uh regardless or

19:28

even blatantly against international law so we are at a critical point and the system is breaking and when we

19:35

international human rights experts have said for for for years especially this

19:41

mandate it’s 20 years that whomever has held this mandate has said over and over the system is breaking the occupied

19:47

Palestinian territory is a powder keg and it will explode and will take all the system with it because it’s a

19:53

settler Colonial Frontier more violent than any other it’s not the only form of colonial

19:59

domination but it’s a it’s an active settler colony where people are really

20:05

struggling for what settler colonialism is in its more more brutal form one people taking control of land of

20:12

resources pushing other people out again and it’s the the the only one actively

20:18

actively militarily politically financially supported and enabled by Western countries so this is

20:26

the breaking point because there are many people who identify themselves with

20:31

Injustice that the Palestinians have have suffered there are many people for the first time realize and there is a a

20:39

global awareness about this and dissatisfaction we see in the fragility

20:46

and uh how lonely the Palestinians are in the face of all these uh Powers our

20:53

own fragility and this is why so many stand in solidarity with with the

20:58

Palestinians on top of the fact it’s a simple empathy the fact that what happens to other human beings touches us

21:04

and doesn’t I mean the fact of seeing children bodies of children like hanging from the wall or turned into smithin

21:13

wherever they are incinerated in in refugee camps or in tents plastic tents if not buried under the rubble I mean

21:19

this is something that doesn’t make many people sleep at night and it’s normal

21:25

it’s a good sign it’s healthy and uh and we shouldn’t we shouldn’t become Idol in the face of

21:31

this pain yeah so we need to decide now it’s a time we are at a turning point

21:36

and we need to decide the system of course will become uglier and more resistant and more fierceful but because

21:43

the system is being challenged the F the system of which Israel’s abuses are a

21:50

symptom and not uh and yeah our symtom um so this is this should be be a wake

21:57

up call for all of us people of conscience uh I often say a bit

22:02

rhetorically but I somewhat I believe it I mean in the sense it’s not the case that the UN Charter is not just about

22:10

States obligations but it says we the people because ultimately it’s with the people who are the guardians of of these

22:16

values these Norms human rights I mean I I know that people complain a lot about International it’s purpose yeah because

22:24

you are not the ones who had to struggle to abolish slavery you’re not the ones who had to struggle to have women rights

22:30

recognized even if I admit with still a lot of work to do but so there has been so there have been so many struggles

22:37

that have led to the the development of Human Rights the way they are so while

22:43

we tend to see human rights as a tool of emancipation and they that is failing I

22:49

want to also remind you if you take a step back and look at the Arc of history that these human rights are f are first

22:56

and foremost the result of someone else a struggle for emancipation and we have grown just too lazy in this part of the

23:04

world because you see the Palestinians like many other people they don’t even have the time to think shall I fight or

23:10

not fight peacefully I mean because the many people have no choice if you have

23:15

the choice it means that you have privilege that you have chosen not to use and it’s your choice but trust me

23:22

everything is in line right now it’s coming the way repression Works in this country is is scary should really should

23:32

scare the hell out of people and the fact that you don’t thank you no it was not

23:38

[Applause] you no and the fact and the fact that

23:44

people don’t register how serious it is the fact that media continue to be as

23:49

pathetic as they are again it’s something that I don’t know I’ll I’ll try to help by continuing

23:56

to tell what I’ve seen here but again I’ve I’ve been in many countries including countries that are lectured by

24:03

Germany about freedom of freedom of

24:11

Oppression choice of word no freedom of expression and freedom of it was not even the worst

24:19

that came out the the worst lapses that came out of my mouth today however freedom of expression and freedom of

24:26

assembly I mean countries that have been lectured by Germany about how important these rights are and who are really

24:33

struggling to guarantee these right I mean don’t want to guarantee these rights to Citizens don’t even make a

24:38

mystery out of it and see and still I’ve expressed uh I experienced much less uh

24:46

intimidation and and fear that here so I again I’m with you and yeah let’s brace

24:54

for what happens next

25:03

what I want to get out a bit because I think this is also something that really many people in the world have been

25:09

asking themselves or asking other people is if international law wasn’t able to

25:19

prevent this genocide if it’s if there were not the necessary mechanisms of

25:26

enforcement really to stop the people people who are committing it

25:31

um what what does it still offer yeah so as I was saying there has been a phase

25:38

where human rights protection of individual rights was not there we are lucky because we have those rights those

25:45

rights also allow us to keep some sanity and saying this is completely wrong now there are the standards there are the

25:52

law enforcement mechanisms that in many respects have never worked for Palestine Palestine has

25:58

always been the big exception and um for a number of reasons

26:04

we don’t need to unpack all the German uh all the problems of of the world now

26:09

but uh yeah and number two no I’m serious

26:15

and uh but um the thing is that when

26:22

government do not do not enforce do not abide by international law next in line

26:28

is uh like Watchdogs that are the Civil Society NOS are the N natural watch

26:36

doogs or what the government does unless there is an utsman on there are like

26:42

protection mechanisms at the country level otherwise there is the international no there are the courts

26:49

tribunals in fact in other countries these are working these are mechanism that are have been activated through

26:55

strategic litigation of Civil Society who have sued the government for complic

27:00

crimes and for transferring weapons to Israel at the time it was committing genocide and I hope more and more there

27:07

needs to be scrutiny of what universities pension funs funds Banks um

27:15

and other priv other any other private actors who contributes in any possible ways big or or small to the uh to the

27:25

unlawfulness of Israel’s presence in the occupied pales territory they must be held accountable and you know in a

27:32

country like that that is not easy because I hear that this is something that has been tried already and there

27:38

has been a bit of push back I hope it’s not the case because really I had a again I’m someone who has grown thinking

27:46

of Germany as an example because of its legal Scholars and because of its courageous judges I’m not I’m not mean

27:53

again studying it Palestinian refugees in international law writing a book about pales refuges in international law

27:59

I would like to remind that it was German courts which allowed to develop the Juris Prudence that has existed on

28:06

how to Pro protect Palestinian refugees at out the middle outside the Middle East so even in Germany it has never

28:13

been that bad I mean you can still go back to a a place of Sanity where so

28:19

courts have to be activated but also certain certain struggles are

28:26

not brought to court cannot be um fought without um without

28:35

the peacefully fought of course without the support of the public opinion because eventually judges also read

28:42

newspapers and the problem is if the debate is so toxic if the media’s work

28:48

is primarily not about telling the facts let alone the legal qualifications but about um

28:54

manufacturing consensus so as to maintain a certain narrative a certain discourse

29:01

it’s very complicated so what is left is uh there are international mechanisms

29:07

that scrutinize the performance of States but again I again I’m I’m not uh

29:13

stere eyed on this right now it’s it sounds like an emergency and in time of

29:19

emergency you don’t uh go into like a long-term plan if you see what I mean so

29:24

I do think that most of the work is to be done of of course internationally eliciting solidarity from others

29:32

eliciting scrutiny because there is again there is a sense that in Germany

29:37

things are bad but no I can tell you there is a if I’m shock if I’m that

29:44

shocked I can tell you there is no real understanding of what’s going on in this country and I’m afraid that this uh this

29:50

will continue to spread so um yeah many more people should talk about that many

29:57

more people should ask your government questions and subsequent government questions so it is to it’s a struggle

30:03

that needs to be to be to be continued on a mult multi fronts

30:10

level you said it’s about just one second by the way the icj and the ICC

30:15

because then it seems that nothing is happening at the international level while International Justice is very slow

30:20

it’s moving I mean for the first time and it would have been unimaginable um years ago where in this

30:28

country like many other including my country was even impossible to say apartheid let alone

30:34

genocide and um and despite the difficulties now the IC has uh indicted

30:41

two Israeli leaders one active the Prime Minister and the other the former Minister of Defense so they are wanted

30:49

by the SEC and hopefully I think that there should be many more because the the colonization has been ongoing for a

30:55

long time and the international court of justice is looking at uh genocide um in two

31:02

cases genocide in the occupied Palestinian territory both uh in the case in the case initiated by South

31:08

Africa versus um Germany sorry Israel and and sorry guys I am on two hour

31:14

sleep so be patient and quite sleep deprived and um

31:20

and Nicaragua versus Germany so your your country is brought uh before the

31:25

international court of justice because of its support to the genocide in

31:30

Gaza you actually just mentioned the um ICC warrants which I wanted to ask you

31:35

about um on January 27th International Holocaust Remembrance Day originally

31:42

there was a plan for Netanyahu to go to aitz for a commemoration

31:48

celebration and um in the end he didn’t a junior member

31:55

of government went um but there was obviously much controversy about it and the Polish

32:02

government said quite brazenly that they would allow him to come they would not enforce the

32:09

warrant um it wasn’t put to the test in the end but that’s what they said in front of the whole world the other week

32:16

um the unfortunately most likely next Chancellor in this country fredr matz

32:24

conservative leader said that um um if there was a

32:30

plan for Netanyahu to come to Germany then of course he would not be arrested

32:35

that you know these warrants mean nothing now of course one could say this

32:40

is all hot air but what could be done what would happen well you see without

32:48

even uh bothering international law is it normal that someone who’s not even in

32:55

function yet or and might have governmental function steps into the the

33:01

realm of competence that belongs to the justice system is not up to government

33:06

officials to to say whether someone will be arrested on on or

33:12

not based on the determination on an investigation that has been carried out

33:17

by the international Court Criminal Court I mean you see we are completely

33:22

dismantling the system that we have so um hard I mean

33:28

with so much sacrifice and political investment built out of what seriously

33:34

out of what like um this this Alliance among politicians

33:42

who tend to protect each other when one commits crimes and end up committing

33:48

crimes altogether now I’m getting arrested for real in south of Italy has a very

33:54

specific name I’m not going to say that but but this is non normal this is not

34:02

normal the intimidation against human rights Defenders lawyers Scholars the

34:08

pressure on University in order not to have a honest debate frankly about 60,000 people plus that

34:17

are that have been killed without again with without

34:23

denying the crimes have been committed against Israelis absolutely no one has ever denied that I’ve been condemning

34:30

crimes against civilians because my red line is that a civilian is a civilian and so it’s Untouchable is the

34:36

responsibility of the of the of the government and of the states to respond for crimes but here’s the responsibility

34:42

of Germany as well what is left to the Palestinians what is left to the Palestinians not to be erased in the

34:48

little that remains of their land the Guardians of the self-determination of the Palestinians are member

34:56

states what has Germany what has Germany done throughout

35:03

2023 when 12 pograms according to how it has they have been defined by many

35:10

including in Israel have been carried out against defenseless Palestinian Villages by violent armed ideological

35:19

settlers escorted as usual by the Israeli Army and again homes and and cars and

35:29

other possessions have been incinerated and saw Orchards then Palestinians have beat have been beaten up and

35:36

terrorized where was Germany and Germany knows not because necessarily your government has to read the human rights

35:42

reports but because that it has a present it has its diplomatic presence in the occupied Palestinian territory

35:49

and everyone knows what’s going on in the occupied Palestinian territory and everyone knows the crimes that Israel

35:55

has been committed with impunity for for decades so the Palestinians have been

36:01

persecuted abused oppressed killed blamed

36:07

smeared and in the face of this we cannot even talk about that I mean again

36:12

this is not my problem I me thank God that I’m not that uh I’m not not that sensitive that someone canels

36:19

a a a and you again um I talk and I take

36:25

it personally I said as long as they pay the hotel room for which they invited me

36:30

that’s fine the problem is yours this is the country you live in and your fellow

36:36

citizens live in so um and it’s very serious certainly is thank

36:47

[Applause] you I’m just looking a bit of the time

36:53

and um we wanted to give a bit of space for people to ask questions no doubt there’ll be many questions and not every

37:00

question can be taken but um you said that you uh also wanted to to share some

37:07

points about genocide earlier yes very very briefly as much as I can because

37:12

it’s very important it’s very important to remind ourselves of what genocide is

37:19

and what the risk of genoside the triggers it’s very important in this country um because you know it’s

37:28

genocide is not defined by personal opinions and personal histories no

37:33

matter how painful they are and there is no question no question that Germany has

37:40

a lot to atone for for the genocides it has committed and at the same time genocide

37:48

today what constitute genocide is written in a in a in an international

37:53

treaty what constitutes genocide is Act of Killing against me members of a group

37:58

infliction of severe mental or physical harm to members of the group the creation of conditions of Life

38:05

calculated to lead to the physical destruction of members of the group and

38:12

um and prevent thank you prevention of birth and the transfer of children so

38:20

you see I I hear uh I hear criticism like uh in the UK for example look at

38:26

the numbers of killing as killing 70,000 people was not bad I don’t again I often

38:32

ask myself what kind of monsters Have We Become but um also the the brutality of

38:39

the attack the way everything has been destroyed the way as we will have the chance to talk um in a way that has led

38:48

to conditions calculated to destroy the Palestinians but the thing is that in order to have genocide is not sufficient

38:54

to commit these crimes the crimes have to be committ with intent with the with

39:00

the determination to destroy the group as such and people

39:06

say it’s very difficult to prove intent yes you know why because it’s very

39:11

difficult to commit I mean it’s difficult to to prove genocide because it should be difficult to commit genocide in 2024 or in

39:20

2025 it it shouldn’t be possible because in the system there AR there are some check and balances in a system that call

39:27

itself Democratic where there is a rule of law system with the separation of power I mean you might have crazy

39:34

government officials making genocidal in incitements say starve them all kill

39:39

them all they are all animals they’re they even the even the the kids it’s I

39:45

mean Germany is not the first time where this has happened because I’ve read the nurenberg trials act and children were

39:51

seen as a security threat so it’s not but there might be there might be cabin

39:59

I mean cabinet were cabinet ministers saying that and then what are the other

40:04

um cabinet ministers doing in the face of this what are the the MPS the members

40:11

of the CET what have they done to intervene to stop this this

40:17

incitement what has the Judiciary done when International court of justice recognized the risk of genocide ordered

40:24

Israel to take measures to soop carry out carrying out its military uh

40:30

operations in a way that could result in genocidal attacks as as it had been

40:35

doing and had Israel complied with the icj provisional measures of January 2024 we

40:43

wouldn’t be here today probably and uh what has the Judiciary done has the

40:49

Judiciary in Israel investigated any of the people senior officials of Israel

40:54

who have been named in uh in the provisional measures and in the

41:00

provisional me in the text of the court that accompanied the provisional measures no that system has proven the

41:07

being a reflex of the enabling environment that Israel as a state was um and the intent has been it’s not even

41:15

that we need to dig to find intent there is direct intent because when when in

41:20

Nano and others have ordered again uh starvation uh no no no water no fuel no

41:29

electricity no food no food of course this would would

41:36

this would lead to conditions calculated to bring about the destruction I mean of

41:41

of a group or members of the group as such identified as Palestinians so in the face of this there should have been

41:49

an obligation as I said to prevent because the convention on the on genocide doesn’t only con is not just

41:56

about the punishment of the crime of genocide creates uh for each state

42:02

especially influential States who are providing support an obligation to prevent and stop and again in April

42:10

2024 in Nicaragua versus Germany the court reminded Germany and other member states to intervene by not transferring

42:18

weapons to States who might be committing not just genocidal acts but violations of international humanitarian

42:25

law including war crimes so the killing of 177,000 children what is it this is

42:32

what journalists should ask your Chancellor because again it’s not about his personal opinion which I respect

42:38

very much but he is’s not it doesn’t respond to your to this question out of personal commitment I imagine but as the

42:46

chancellor of this country which has obligation under international law and this is an this the the way Germany is

42:52

evading its obligations and acting in a way that is prohibited under international law is uh cannot be hidden

43:01

this is the reality that’s an appropriate note uh to end on before we open it up to the

43:07

audience we are representatives of students for Palestine Fu and also students from The Not So free University

43:14

here in Berlin that uh canceled your event tomorrow so we are very happy to see you and to ask our questions um in a

43:21

recent viral video you rightfully criticized the German State and the situation this country is in you are

43:26

also so aware of the protests and the repression we are experiencing our question would be how can we stand up

43:32

against such State repression and who can we trust um when it comes to our rights um I mean we are protesting and

43:40

boycotting but what else can we do maybe you are aware of this I think we tried to uh convey um a very comprehensive

43:48

report on uh the collaborations of R University with a series of Israeli

43:55

institutions and universities which we think are in very clear breach of

44:00

international law and morality as such too to give one example the F University

44:06

is sending its students very often without the knowledge where it’s specifically sending and what kind of

44:11

situation it’s sending these students to um exchange programs for example with the Hebrew University which has its

44:18

students hosts in East Jerusalem on which we think is an eagle legal

44:24

settlement and we would like if you could say a few words on uh what you think are the obligations of um German

44:32

universities and particularly Fu regarding such cases we also would like to forward a question for later to Al

44:38

already uh what he thinks um as a scholar originally from Israel what the

44:44

political impact of such uh campaigns is also in order to break the normalization

44:50

of occupation and apar um and to give another example on this uh the

44:55

University’s law faculty where I am a student at currently has a couple of

45:01

programs running but one of them is called human rights under pressure uh and it advertises with experiencing and

45:09

researching these um human rights under pressure in the field and is sending uh

45:14

programs uh uh very often to Israel and the occupied uh territories and uh as I

45:21

think Franchesca has been made aware of um by a letter that Fu professors from the Law Department wrot um yeah uh it it

45:30

is you know this normalization is happening through these kinds of Corporations anyways thanks for your

45:36

attention we will probably tomorrow upload the report on BDS hyphen um f

45:46

bdsf and uh try to support the campaign if you want

45:55

to I would also like to really beg for your Indulgence in the sense that after

46:01

all I mean I’m very I’m very happy to to be received but so much uh so much

46:06

warmth and expectations but also do not uh I would like you to keep realistic

46:12

expectations on what can come from me in the sense I’m really just a human rights lawyer who’s trying to do the right

46:18

thing no more than that and I I’m sorry that it’s a r rare commodity in this era

46:24

but I don’t know sometimes I just don’t know no because let me tell you I think

46:29

I think that what the universities are doing is wrong it’s so wrong then it

46:35

should be brought to Justice University cannot have Partnerships with anything

46:41

that has to do with a settlements cannot have partnership but but really we are being conservative here because at the

46:48

time of apartheid South Africa it’s not that we were going to see how to establish or cut relations with Israel

46:56

just in the limit of the bantus stank where South Africa was segregating the

47:03

black South Africans I mean if Israel commits crimes that should lead to accountability and Justice 360 degrees

47:11

so I’m even uncomfortable as a lawyer to have to split the hair and say the

47:16

settlements and not the settlements Maya wind an Israeli scholar has done incredible work on the responsibility of

47:23

universities as such Israeli universities explain why it’s wrong today in

47:29

2025 to maintain partnership with Israeli universities who are part of Israel’s with Israel’s infrastructure

47:36

military and surveillance in surveillance and oppression infrastructure Visa the Palestinians so

47:43

not having ties not having relations not having Partnerships not sending students

47:49

to things that have to do with the with the occupied Palestinian territory

47:55

should be the minimum bear for a university to keep on calling itself free if Freedom

48:02

[Applause] calls that by the way by the way I

48:10

really object that University keeps on having the name free after caning me and

48:16

a

48:25

y what can we you do you should really try to work as much as possible in

48:32

solidar solidarity with others because if one thing I’ve learned by myself is

48:38

that Unity brings strength and I understand that especially I don’t know

48:44

if this is unique to the Palestine solidarity movement but there is a little bit of snobbish attitude oh I

48:51

agree with this but then he doesn’t agree with everything I say can you be minimalist for once and agree on a few

48:58

points like and the genocide and the occupation and IDE and

49:10

then let’s say because in time in in south of Italy I come from a region of

49:15

peasants so we have a very simple way of understanding life in a way and say in

49:21

time of delu all arms are needed and this is the thing this is a time of

49:27

Crisis so all brains are needed all mouth and eyes and ears are needed so

49:32

let’s just uh Ally along the lines of there is a need for a popular front

49:39

around human rights and Justice because what’s happening in Palestine is not staying in Palestine and nor in Israel

49:46

leader so it’s it I mean yes it’s the same and uh so this is why it’s uh it’s

49:53

it’s necessary to try to explore creatively uh what alliances you might need

49:59

including with universities outside Germany or with scholar there are few

50:04

Scholars here but there are a few Scholars who have been speaking out I mean to be honest a and I when fra when

50:10

former fra University invited us it was fry University invited us we we received

50:18

an invitation from postdam University I cannot ensure 100% that the event would

50:24

have been well not been cancelled but at least there was an attempt and we couldn’t make it but it was too much

50:30

short notice sorry but again this is where we you we we need to reach out to

50:36

everyone who’s sensible enough who has a minimum of knowledge and a minimum of

50:41

decency which shouldn’t be too much to ask so as not as as to stand up against

50:47

the Injustice that is spreading in this country as well thank you Francesa for being here and for all the work that you

50:53

have been doing for over the past year so you touched a little bit on this and

50:58

probably this is going to be a controversial question but uh as a Palestinian all these like International

51:05

laws human rights the UN all of these things how we can trust and like put our

51:11

trust in this H Concepts and institutions if they failed to stop the genocide for the past 16 months when all

51:19

the greater power powers in the in the word are not following or or like

51:24

listening to are abiding by all these laws and also with the veto right as

51:31

well when five superpowers can just veto any ceasefire or any resolution I’m not

51:39

going to answer that question because the point is not that you should trust the system you shouldn’t trust the system you

51:46

shouldn’t quiet you shouldn’t expect the system to give you anything because it’s

51:52

not you are not again what the Palestinians have got is something that the Palestinians had to fight for and

51:57

this I mean it’s not that the Palestinians are exceptional this epitomizes the struggle of any

52:03

minorities in this world and uh and again so you need really to count on all

52:10

possible forces and alliances for example not everything in the United Nations is

52:17

bad you’re one of these things ah no no but I want to say I want to say

52:24

there have been 30 special raur now you see me but there has been 30 special

52:30

repur and while the struggle and the attacks against me are known many others

52:37

have not even that that visibility to complain or to elicit solidarity so it’s

52:43

really about supporting each other and from the different walks of life we come

52:48

from etc etc so the the thing is that there is also some difficulty in

52:54

exploring how to how to build these alliances because we are we are more

53:01

fragile in these societies we are not you see even grieving together why my

53:07

lectures have become a place where people come and cry because in our societies there is no we are not afur of

53:14

the luxury of places for Collective grief and where we can also talk about

53:20

what we have gone through we can check on each other and uh and have the courage to look at into each other’s

53:27

eyes and say it’s okay it’s okay to cry it’s okay to feel crazy it’s okay to to be scared and to and to carry fear it’s

53:35

okay and um and uh and even rage and even wanting to express one oneself in

53:42

ways that are not necessarily compliant with German or even Italian standards

53:47

it’s okay to to be enraged against the system the point is that how do we move

53:52

Beyond grief into action and this is where we need to to understand what it means I think being in the line where

54:00

everything is at risk I mean and I know that now it’s still we have some privilege and our works and our but if

54:08

some of us start to lose it just for exercising their rights we should all

54:14

feel worried because it sooner or later it will hit us because this is where we

54:19

need to build Nets safety nets to help each other by we don’t need we don’t

54:26

need to spend that much in our life we can have times of austerity we should

54:32

afford austerity in our own life and trust me if you see how my consumption

54:39

of clothes my expenditure for clothes has gone down from two years ago to now you understand what austerity means but

54:46

in the sense we don’t need we don’t need as much so we can afford less but also

54:53

share more I know it sounds idealistic but this is where I have I have more trust in this than in what you said and

55:04

um also also aparti and racial segregation in the

55:12

United States and the dictatorships from Chile Argentina Chile sorry Brazil they

55:19

didn’t or colonialism brutal colonization although colonialism is still lingering and this is the

55:25

opportunity to unpack it because if one thing Palestine the genocide in Palestine has brought to the four is

55:33

what settler colonialism and colonialism still is so it has spoke the babble of colonial Amnesia that we have grown into

55:39

many of us so again let’s take the silver L let’s look at the silver silver

55:45

lining out there this is a moment to do better we have to think together and act

55:53

together this is the only thing I feel to to say hi my name is Mark Barton I’m a composer and professor in Germany uh

55:59

my question is about press freedom for Miss Alan um and the provisions that

56:04

exist under international law to guarantee press Freedom um we saw in

56:09

Israel’s attacks in Lebanon we saw the ability of journalists to respond immediately to accusations for example

56:15

that hospitals were being used by terrorists and and we saw um the the

56:20

role that journalism can play in debunking um uh disinformation in real

56:26

time we don’t see a lot of that happening in the West Bank uh right now and um right now there’s a ceasefire in

56:32

Gaza we also don’t see a lot of international journalists active and I’m wondering if there’s anything international law can do to force that

56:38

to happen when I think of uh of what journalists have done and you mentioned Lebanon I mean it’s even more shocking

56:46

the kind of double I mean the moral compass and the moral the the double The

56:51

Selective attitude that has been used in after the pager attack because I

56:57

don’t know how it was in Germany but in my own country and other countries I saw politicians and journalists laughing

57:03

about that and and commenting on how audacious and genius it was praising the

57:09

Ingenuity of the attack but this is where I say the entry point now where the rallying I mean something to fight

57:16

because this is the common enemy is racism racism it was racism it is and

57:22

racism continues to to be

57:27

and um then was it I again I do not think that his international law was not

57:34

able to stop genocide international law it doesn’t have I mean doesn’t have

57:39

hands to slap the face of you know government officials who pretend not to

57:45

understand what genocide is I’m not referring to anyone in this country now okay seriously I mean we have enough bad

57:52

politicians in my own country and uh um where even the hypothesis the hypothesis

57:59

of a two-state solution now dismantled by the foreign minister because Gaza has

58:05

been turned into rubble and the West Bank is too small and I was saying are you suggesting that the Palestinians

58:10

take over Israel just because the what remains is too little so this is the kind of political discussions we have

58:17

today and we need to somewhat talk to the intellectuals talk to the scholars

58:23

this is also about the Constitutional order that it is being being undermined not just International System

58:29

International system has rules at the Constitutional level we have rules what’s happening to them so again back

58:35

to you guys my question goes a bit in line like seeing that the current international law has been unable for 16

58:43

months to stop a genocide I can’t believe I’m saying this um how what

58:48

would in your expert opinion be the ideal international law system

58:54

functioning system who would draft it who would enforce it we know that this one based on the nation state with this

59:01

Security Council created by the winning powers from World War II with the veto

59:07

power Etc is not functioning uh how would you uh yeah what would be the

59:12

ideal international law system in your view thank you as I said before apid was

59:17

not dismantled by member states it was very late when it was unavoidable that they started sanctioning aparte South

59:25

Africa but really we need to learn from other uh movement where resistance

59:31

peaceful resistance has organized at a global level admitting admitting that

59:37

never before there had been such a such a a coalition of allies at the at the

59:45

international level aiming to to crash the solidarity this is new but again

59:52

also the kind of forces that we can mobilize is new because the global South is rising and I know that in our

59:58

eurocentric view of the world we only look at the at at the depress

1:00:04

quite politically depressing scenario we have but there are also member states who are cutting ties with Israel there

1:00:11

are member states I mean I was joking today but I say in a few years we will keep on asking funds seeking funds to I

1:00:18

don’t know Arab countries or the global South in order to protect our own work

1:00:24

in this part of the world the human rights work but doesn’t matter this will make us more equal so I also think that

1:00:29

the discourse should change because of where it’s the the the United States is

1:00:36

is going is a place of lawlessness this is the opportunity for the International Community to to step

1:00:44

back but it will not happen automatically because we are part of this oligarchical order where um it’s

1:00:50

not about what the people think it’s what about capitalistic interests decide

1:00:56

and this is why I keep on saying it’s it’s difficult and it’s it’s difficult because it’s a struggle against the

1:01:02

system of which Palestine is a system not necessarily the the cause of all

1:01:10

evil I would like to POS a question concerning genocide which you said it’s

1:01:15

very difficult to prove this mental state of committing it but then we have

1:01:21

another layer and this is incitement which we we we’ve been witnessing in here in Germany from the

1:01:28

very beginning October 723 how Palestinians but in all their layers of

1:01:35

life together with their children are dehumanized we just need to read tar to

1:01:41

tagas sha or build and if I may read or not to take time but this is a serious

1:01:48

problem and then if I go back to the history and the magazine sturma and

1:01:53

compare the images uh not that I’m comparing comparing but this historical

1:02:01

flow of dehumanizing then I have no problem with comparison okay but then I

1:02:07

am now careful so because U we know what can happen but the processes of the

1:02:14

humanizations do last and they tell us the genocide like for instance in a

1:02:19

country where I am from Serbia last for a long time so I as someone from Serb

1:02:26

could also recognize dehumanizing images of bosniacs or Bosnian Muslims and then

1:02:32

Palestinians while reading magazines build not that I read build but

1:02:37

build tagas sha or even I will now mention the January 19 and the release

1:02:44

of hostages which was really an important day and it is every time when we celebrate freed lives but then also

1:02:52

freed lives from the prison and when we see how how they are represented as the

1:02:58

gr M can can you help me translate this

1:03:04

screaming crowd gr or shr so this is my

1:03:10

question about the incitement AL also how to organize ourselves to be aware to

1:03:15

collect to arhive and also then to serve to the legal cause in the future and

1:03:21

thank you for your patience [Applause]

1:03:30

again genocide is difficult to prove because because genocide should be difficult to commit we should not

1:03:35

confuse the intent with the reasons I mean because people say to say y my

1:03:40

Israel we cannot really say that Israel wanted to destroy Gaza even if it has

1:03:46

destroyed Gaza even if it does said if there are Israeli leaders who have ordered the destruction of Gaza and

1:03:53

general commanders who have in fact order their soldiers so there has been the order the the the chain of command

1:04:00

effectively triggered bottom sorry top to bottom they yeah but it were also saying there should that Israel was also

1:04:07

saying that they want to liberate the hostages or destroy Hamas whatever it means and no we shouldn’t confuse this

1:04:15

because the reasons can be many but have really no value in the determination of

1:04:20

intent which is another thing it’s the mindset when the the intent the mind set

1:04:26

is there to destroy and the int the genocide shouldn’t even be committed the

1:04:31

incitement is sufficient to sufficient to trigger the responsibility to prevent

1:04:38

and this is where you know when uh the first the first person to talk about genocide in the context of what has

1:04:44

happened in Gaza was Ras sigal and Israeli historians who said this is a a

1:04:50

textbook case of genocide and ignorant as I was back then

1:04:55

I said oh come on it’s not a textbook because as a good European I knew that the textbook case of genocide first I

1:05:02

mean and again I had seen the failure to prevent genocide in Rwanda and in Bosnia

1:05:09

ovina so my point was if there are no crematoria if there are no machetes if

1:05:14

there is no Mass killing it’s not genocide it’s not true it’s not true and

1:05:21

this is why genocide has been a niche in the in legal studies for a long time and

1:05:27

is no longer that I mean really Russ was was was right when he said this is a

1:05:33

textbook case of genocide because it’s not just a genocide is a settler Colonial genocide so the aim is ethnic

1:05:41

cleansing because the aim is to empty the land of Palestinians keep on

1:05:46

advancing Palestinian Erasure so that the land can be taken but also genocidal acts are being committed in the process

1:05:54

and it’s been said and it has been done so this is not a case where there is no genocidal intent but the RAS is also I

1:06:00

mean I remember the RAS has been one of those Scholars calling me as early as

1:06:05

February 2023 saying as I was writing about detention and mass carcerality

1:06:11

mass incarceration and the kind of the the systemic and arbitr um and

1:06:17

widespread nature of De privation of Liberty of the Palestinians and he was saying but when are you going to look into the genocide

1:06:23

against the Palestinians imagine Mar action but say okay let’s talk about that but then I’ve realized how much he

1:06:29

was right because as a genocide scholar and and someone who has studied the Holocaust and other cases of genocide he

1:06:37

knows that there are different steps that genocide is not an act is a process and it’s preceded by a number of things

1:06:44

but there is one element that is common or common across all genocides and

1:06:50

wouldn’t be possible if it was not widespread among societies it’s dehumanization of the other so that we

1:06:56

do not see the Palestinians today as Palestinians and again as a

1:07:03

European this is me taking please don’t applaud don’t nod don’t say anything

1:07:08

hold your breath but I need to say that because I wouldn’t be me if I didn’t say that but a EUR as a European as an

1:07:16

Italian I know that the genocide of the Jewish people in this part of the world

1:07:22

would not have been Possible only for a few months ERS who had planned the deportation the trains the

1:07:29

industrialization the horror that has been done Jewish people in this part of the world before being sent to

1:07:36

concentration camps have died out of starvation and lack of hygiene in in

1:07:43

ghettos where they had been locked up we know that the Discrimination

1:07:48

started the the dehumanization had was already started when it was possible to kick out of their professions

1:07:57

people because they were Jewish either we do realize that

1:08:03

racism was at the root the root cause for the for the genocide of the Jews the

1:08:08

Roman cin and was this it’s ingrained it’s ingrained in who we are as European I’m sorry but 500 years of colonialism

1:08:16

have been predicated upon the idea of a superior race white male Christian and

1:08:23

it’s patri patriarchy we deal with it

1:08:29

no it’s my responsibility because then it’s here I understand that you you

1:08:35

cannot talk I mean I’m not making comparison for God for God’s sake but also it’s history and Germany

1:08:43

has committed to genocide please don’t upload because there is nothing to upload to this Germany has committed two

1:08:51

genocides in history oops okay that’s fine two are bad enough

1:09:00

and and again and again why can’t we talk about that are the N andero less

1:09:08

human do they deserve less acknowledgement do they deserve less memory do they deserve less

1:09:15

reparations and again and another thing that and so me saying that probably you should say that the state of Israel

1:09:21

doesn’t represent all the Jewish people in the world otherwise I wouldn’t understand why you invite me and sit

1:09:27

with me today and so many I mean wherever I go I’m invited by Jewish people first and foremost we need to

1:09:32

have the courage to say that not and I do not expect everyone of you to say

1:09:38

that but those of you who have an inch of privilege in this country University

1:09:43

professors with t tenure Jewish people first and foremost we need to say that

1:09:49

it’s not in our name that this can be carried out because we have not been able to prevent the genocide of the Tosi

1:09:55

we are not being able to prevent the genocide of the yazidi uh or the or the

1:10:01

the the rja in myar or in the Bosnia however however I really want this to be

1:10:07

the last genocide of human history and it’s not going to happen until it’s stopped in order this to be stopped we

1:10:14

it needs to be understood and recognized absolutely thank you very much um a perfect point to end even if obviously

1:10:21

many of us would like to continue um but there are still further um parts of this

1:10:26

program which somewhat amazingly has been allowed to proceed this far so

1:10:32

let’s see if we make it to the end yes so thank you again Franchesca Alban [Applause]

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IkusEuskal Herriaren independentzia eta Mikel Torka

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