Palestina: erresilientzia (28)

Abier@abierkhatib

eka. 18

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803062470510059802

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Dr. Jill Stein@DrJillStein

Join our campaign for people, planet, and peace: http://jillstein2024.com

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803499124513448395

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Saul Staniforth@SaulStaniforth

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803379358758813802

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Pelham@Resist_05

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sarah@sahouraxo

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803426158790287469

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Afshin Rattansi@afshinrattansi

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Arnaud Bertrand@RnaudBertrand

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Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803496735542595782

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Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803636065905062065

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Khalissee@Kahlissee

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803483064842010834

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Palestine Highlights@PalHighlight

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803518372648223037

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Saul Staniforth@SaulStaniforth

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803331386595479777

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Newham Independents @NewhamIndParty

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803673198552121686

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Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803488816222589165

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In addition, he demanded that the state of Palestine be recognised, with its capital in Jerusalem and its borders set in 1967, and that the unlawful occupation end.

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803629901385187628

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Dr. Jill Stein@DrJillStein

eka. 18

Boeing CEO David Calhoun is being raked over the coals by the Senate right now. He’s making $32.8 million this year. Josh Hawley asks him “What is it you get paid to do exactly?”

The CEO struggles to answer.

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803151381651661146

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Suppressed News.@SuppressedNws

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Thomas Fazi@battleforeurope

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Hillel Fuld@HilzFuld

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803504433898332619

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Scott Ritter@RealScottRitter

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@tobararbulu # mmt@tobararbulu

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@tobararbulu # mmt@tobararbulu

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@tobararbulu # mmt@tobararbulu

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Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1803228137024795088

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Ez dago lekurik neutraltasunerako

This conversation is released with the premiere of the documentary ‘Where Olive Trees Weep,’ along with 21 days of talks on Palestine with leading historians, spiritual teachers, trauma therapists, poets, artists and more.

No Room for Neutrality: On the Frontlines of Gaza’s Health Catastrophe With Dr. Rupa Marya, Nancy Mansour, Dr. Mohammad Tahir, & Dr. James Smith facilitated by Umaymah Mohammad

This discussion goes beyond exposing the devastating humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza’s besieged healthcare system. It calls for the global medical community to reckon with its complicity — through inaction, neutrality and silence — in enabling the catastrophe.

The speakers sound an urgent call to shed willful ignorance and hollow crisis-fatigue. By uplifting the voices of physicians on the frontlines, who cannot normalize Gaza’s brutalities, they will demand meaningful solidarity from the global medical profession to pursue justice — not sideline neutrality. ‘Where Olive Trees

Weep’ is a poignant, heartbreaking film about the struggles and resilience of Palestinian people under Israeli occupation. It explores themes of loss, trauma, and the quest for justice. We follow, among others, Palestinian journalist and therapist Ashira Darwish, grassroots activist Ahed Tamimi, and Israeli journalist Amira Hass. It features Dr. Gabor Maté as he offers trauma-healing work to Palestinian women tortured in Israeli prisons.

The program expands on the themes explored in the film and provides a larger historical and social context.

Transkripzioa:

0:00

[Music] good morning good afternoon good evening so many familiar faces so nice to be

0:07

back in community with all of you welcome back everyone welcome back my name is Macio Beno my name is z benatu

0:15

we are speaking to you from the cost Mew walk and South Palo territory and C the

0:23

territory the territory also known as Sebastapol California in colonial terms

0:30

and this is day 15 of our program thank you for staying with us and thank you

0:36

for coming back I know it’s yeah and I I think today’s

0:42

conversation is going to be probably one of the most challenging on so thank you for being here um as we entering the

0:52

ninth month of the genocide in Gaza

0:57

um we have seen the uh probably the conflict that has the

1:03

most uh has killed the most humanitarian and healthcare workers over 500 I think

1:10

that’s the number James and our guest will correct me if that’s not right probably we don’t even know the full

1:17

number but at this very moment um the humanitarian Aid workers are

1:24

calling what’s happening in Gaza from genocide has become a death camp and

1:29

it’s also a war on children and women at this very moment there is over 50,000

1:36

children in Gaza that are require immediate um medical attention because

1:43

they’re facing a acute malnutrition in addition to Israel not

1:50

allowing any kind of Aid going through making everything impossible to reach

1:56

the people that most needed uh food and medical supplies and every kind of

2:03

Lifeline has been cut off for the people in Gaza so as we’re watching it here

2:09

from the comfort of our homes I feel like somebody yesterday shared that part

2:15

of my soul is is lost is turned apart how could this be happening in front of

2:22

our eyes today how can we have allowed this to happen um so

2:31

you we have some incredible guests today who can speak from from the position of

2:37

being a health care worker from being a doctor how they grapple how they serve

2:43

how they yeah how they make a stand with their with their lives for for human

2:51

dignity for life for justice so welcome welcome and today the conversation would

2:59

be held is the word conducted that um and I want to re

3:08

read a very brief bio of um Umma Muhammad MD PhD

3:14

student and Palestinian organizer at Emory

3:20

University informed by many years of community organizing in Indianapolis her research interest are

3:27

Guided by the community of color mentored her on the practice of abolition anti-racism and Liberation

3:36

she’s interested in creating a practice for physician and other health care workers that is informed by a radical AB

3:44

abolitionist Lance you m welcome welcome in this

3:50

community thank you for being with us so much for having

3:56

me thank you so much um I’m so honored to be here to help facilitate this panel

4:02

we have an incredible panel um for all of you today to have a a very difficult

4:07

discussion about the role of healthcare and healthcare workers and what we’re seeing Ina so I’m going to give similarly a

4:14

very brief introduction of our amazing panelists um and I will also allow them

4:21

the opportunity um to introduce themselves um and talk about why they’re here today so first we have Dr Rupa

4:29

Maria who’s a personal hero of mine as a medical student um is a physician

4:34

activist writer and composer at the University of California San Francisco her work intersects climate health and

4:42

racial justice as founder of the deep medicine Circle and co-founder of the Do no harm Coalition she’s committed to

4:48

healing colonialism’s wounds and addressing disease through structural change thank you for being here Dr

4:55

Moria next on the panel also somebody who I’ve been following for many years

5:01

um Nancy Mansour um who is the executive director of eyewitness Palestine and the

5:06

co-founder of existence is resistance a radical Grassroots movement dedicated to the liberation of

5:13

Palestine third on our panel is Dr James Smith who is a British physician with

5:18

degrees in global health and development medical anthropology and international human Affairs he has recently returned

5:25

from a two-month trip in oza where he was providing Medical Care and lastly if

5:31

the opportunity presents itself and Dr Muhammad Tahir can come he is currently

5:36

serving Ina as a provider he is an orthopedic and peripheral nerve surgeon from the UK who is currently operating

5:43

in LDA as part of a team at the European General Hospital he works tirle day and

5:48

night demonstrating unwavering dedication to providing Essential Medical Care to those in Liza so we hope

5:54

that he’ll have the time to be able to pop in and share his experience um but we all know the situ in Lida is very

6:00

difficult and even getting internet access um can be impossible at times um so I I am honored to introduce

6:08

these folks but I would like for them actually to take a moment and take some time to introduce themselves and also

6:15

talk a little bit about why you felt called to be working and speaking about’s Health crisis being caused by

6:22

the Israeli apartheid regime in the ongoing genocide

6:31

anybody want to go

6:37

first I’m happy to okay go for

6:44

it oh no Mine mine’s brief I mean go for it

6:52

Nancy um so I’ve been you know doing work

6:57

around Palestine um being a Palestinian for pretty much

7:03

um I mean I say doing work I’ve been my parents took me to process when I was younger and going back and forth my

7:10

entire life um being privileged that my family never left so I still have access

7:16

to my Village and and my city um not easily of course I’m still to them an

7:24

Arab um and so I get to to go in and out and I use that privilege to to be able

7:29

to take people there um in 2009 I co-led a delegation of 200 people under George

7:36

Galloway in um and it was kind of a random 200 people and so when uh you

7:44

know in October when they started attacking rzi um you know my initial

7:49

thought was I mean everybody every Palestinian I think feels help helpless in this moment um and so it was like

7:57

what can we do to actually help um and you know I’ve been posting for 20 years so I mean it’s you want to do a little

8:04

bit more than just talk about it um which is great not you know Throwing Shade on you know what everybody

8:10

everybody has a role in this movement um but if you have the heart to go and do what you can on the ground and help um

8:17

then people should and so for me it was a matter of um trying to uh I wanted to

8:23

do a larger delegation of about two to 300 healthcare workers but in the

8:30

process for a few months figuring out that was a little bit difficult to do right now um and so I took the

8:36

opportunity when it came to me to co-lead um a mission of 10 doctors inzi

8:42

in March um and so uh just you know seeing it firsthand is is um I mean one

8:49

that’s an experience and a life-changing experience and a um something that nobody can debate with you uh but

8:57

secondly feeling like you’re there with the palestin ions who in this moment um and for a long time not just in this

9:03

moment feel very alone in this um and so it you know even if it was just a tiny

9:10

little bit that I was able to do it felt like I was there with my people and I

9:15

was able to to assist you know for the couple of weeks I was there this thank

9:24

you thank you so much Nancy

9:31

would one of our other panelists like to introduce themselves yes thank you Nancy um my

9:37

name is Rupa Maria I’m a um physician professor of medicine at

9:42

UCF my work really looks at the health impacts of colonialism on our bodies on

9:48

our societies and on the planet um in the context of climate catastrophe and

9:53

um during October when when the attacks on

9:59

um huzza started happening I was put in touch with Dr kassan abua um who was

10:05

then between a couple different hospitals trying to keep these um you know the the relief work going at that

10:11

time and to get his messages every morning at 400 a.m through WhatsApp um

10:17

between October 9th and the end of November and to see the um unfolding of

10:24

this genocide happening that was specifically targeting Healthcare facilities was just um

10:30

just totally unbelievable to me um to see the targeted attack the Complete Siege the deprivation of food medicine

10:37

electricity water coming into kza um and then the targeted explicit attack on

10:43

Health Care Systems on the hospitals the clinics and the Physicians and nurses and medical students and pharmacists um

10:50

that to me just um was really an important moment um to speak up as a

10:55

healthcare worker and to ask the questions why in the United States no healthare systems were speaking up about

11:00

this um when these were our colleagues who were being targeted why was it that um we were actually being um silenced

11:07

for our work and continuing to be silenced and harassed so how is the muzzling of our voices as healthcare

11:14

workers which is continuing to this day UCSF is launching an investigation of Faculty code of conduct for my bullying

11:21

behavior in terms of speaking out and saying no we have to speak out about this and why are we silent about this

11:27

and why am I in a room with doctors at UCSF advocating for no ceasefire and what does that mean when we say no

11:33

ceasefire as children and Physicians are being murdered um and what reality are we living in that we’re talking with

11:38

doctors saying let the let the killing keep happening that’s essentially what we’re saying um and how far have we come

11:44

from the very foundations of our Oaths um and our sacred work as Physicians to

11:49

do no harm and to take care of all beings um and so to me this catastrophic

11:55

uh rupture we’re seeing in the moral heart and center of our profession is

12:00

exposing how medicine has always been a part of colonial dominance um and how

12:05

much work we have to do to liberate our own profession so that we can be in service of all beings um and that really

12:12

is the heart and soul of my work and the push back we’re seeing from power right now um is exactly the same push back

12:20

that happened during the genocide of California Native people here where I’m sitting on Stolen you know occupied um

12:25

Coast Miwok land um so these kinds of patterns are not new they have been happening for hundreds of

12:31

years um and they’re happening right now um and so how do we respond what is our

12:37

moral um what is the requirement of ourselves morally as Physicians and what

12:42

happens when we don’t speak up and when we are silenced and let ourselves be silenced so the liberation of the voice

12:48

of healthcare workers has really been um a part of my work in this move um and it’s been very very

12:55

challenging and I just want to um give lots of love and props to James who’s been on the ground and I can’t wait to

13:01

hear more from you James thank you folks and and and thank

13:08

you um to all of you for for the invitation to be with you um I’m

13:14

speaking to you at the moment from from from Beirut um where I’ve today been at

13:19

a conference um that’s all about um the the the future of the Palestinian

13:24

healthc care system um and I’m happy to talk more about that that in a little while there are all sorts of yeah

13:32

political Dynamics at play that I’m starting to or trying to process in real time but I did have the Good Fortune of

13:37

of seeing Gana bu who arrived um early this morning so it was lovely to give him a big hug um having not seen him for

13:44

over two months um I would maybe just by way of a a a more elaborate introduction

13:52

I I would definitely describe myself as a as a reluctant humanitarian uh the

13:57

longer I’ve spent in the sort of humanitarian sector as opposed to sort

14:02

of surrounding myself or or or affiliating with humanitarian values I’ve realized or or or it’s become

14:09

increasingly clear to me that this work much like medicine as as as ruper has

14:14

mentioned is is a is a practice um of of violence uh and what we see for the most

14:21

part in the way that humanitarianism is is enacted internationally is is yeah various manifestations of of violence um

14:30

so with respect to sort of my my time in in in Gaza and in Palestine um it was a

14:37

a confused kind of decision-making process in some respects I mean I felt very strongly that I wanted to be in

14:43

Palestine for the reasons that that that Nancy and rer have mentioned we have this strong uh moral and political

14:50

obligation not only as sort of concerned Global Citizens but as healthcare workers um nothing else seemed to matter

14:59

to me um and having been in Gaza in December and January returning in

15:04

January the only thing I wanted to do was to to to to get back as soon as I possibly could um but it was a confused

15:13

kind of process because at the moment the only way really to access Gaza is um

15:19

through these kind of complicated highly politicized un Le

15:26

mechanisms um you have to be affiliated with one organization or another some of those organizations are better than

15:32

others um and some of them are really quite horrific frankly and and here we’re talking about complicit in in in

15:40

the genocide in some form or another um so it’s been a process of trying to

15:46

navigate all of that um but also to be present and to try and

15:52

practice in some form or another some kind of internationalist solidarity um

15:59

and of course I can’t be the judge of whether or not I I managed to do that that that will be the the the

16:04

Palestinian people that I was working with are the judge of that um but that was the ambition and and and as I say

16:11

for me it was really a case of how on Earth can we be doing anything but spending every waking moment thinking

16:18

about what’s being done to the Palestinian people um yeah and what has been done for the better part of a

16:25

century thank you so much all for those

16:31

incredible introductions um before we start with the Panic panel questions I sort of

16:37

wanted to open up um and provide space for both you Dr James and Nancy who have

16:44

both been to USA recently during this genocide and have witnessed the Health and Social catastrophe as a result um to

16:51

give us a small glimpse of what life and health looks like in ALA right now

17:05

um wow so I will say that

17:12

whatever we’re seeing online is from a few people you know

17:18

even if you follow a thousand people there’s 2.4 million inzi and so what we’re seeing online

17:25

is 5% if that of what’s really happening on the ground um you can’t translate

17:32

smells you can’t translate the diseases that you’re seeing like I mean there

17:38

it’s layers and layers I mean I’ll I’ll start with this the way

17:44

I’ve described it to people is it’s the saddest and happiest place on Earth for me that I’ve ever been to um and the

17:52

first thing that really got me is you know I’ve been taking people to Palestine for 17 years and

17:59

the one one of the main things that people always say different people from every different delegation when they do

18:05

their report backs is um you know I don’t see homeless people in Palestine like nobody’s you don’t just see people

18:11

living on the streets it just doesn’t happen um you know we take care of our elders um if there is somebody in our

18:18

family that has a mental disorder or some something um you know an addiction

18:23

we take care of them and we you know they’re they’re not out on the street doing whatever you know as we see in in

18:31

the western world and um when I got to I think one of the hardest things for me

18:36

to see was everybody was homeless and that hurt you know it was you know

18:42

watching you know the kids who used to just come up and say how are you how are you now asking for money and it’s just

18:47

money money money um and that’s not who Palestinians are and so that’s that’s

18:53

that was one of the first things that just kind of really um

18:59

B me I guess I mean although I was watching what was happening but just not to the degree of when you’re there and I

19:05

guess that comes back to when people ask me before they go to Palestine what to expect I just say whatever it is you

19:10

think it is it’s 500 times worse um anything in reality um when you see it

19:17

firsthand is completely different and so you know watching healthcare workers we

19:22

so essentially the 10 doctors we had were spread out between sh ala Hospital

19:27

in balah we had um folks Nar hospital and ra we had um one doctor in the

19:35

European hospital we had Del Sultan Clinic which is now or was a morg I

19:41

don’t even know if it’s still um being used as a morg I’m sure James could probably tell us more about it now um

19:47

and we were at the emirati hospital and one you know one thing that I’ve been saying when I’ve been talking about this

19:53

is watching uh there was a Dr Muhammad Sal who was head of the nikq um Mr

19:59

having to make decisions of what babies should live and what babies should die

20:04

um I mean I can’t first of all Palestinian doctors healthcare workers

20:10

have been doing this pretty much you know if they’re in their 30s their entire life this is not just since

20:16

October um and they are working without salaries

20:22

there’s no infrastructure there’s no they don’t have pay going in um and they’re working crazy shs and they’re

20:29

making decisions of for example when we were there there was um a set of twins

20:35

that were born and there was a family that were having their first baby and there was only two

20:40

spaces um in the incubator so he had to

20:46

choose which B which two babies should stay alive and so he chose one of the twins and the family that were having

20:53

their first baby so that each family would have one baby I think just as a

20:59

human being like remove politics and whatever like just as a human being or a

21:04

healthcare worker imagine having to make that decision and then tell the parents and then also live with that and that’s

21:10

just one of how many that’s just you know I was there for two weeks and that’s not the most horrific thing that I saw but just you know to give you an

21:17

idea of what kind of decisions they’re having to make um you know people uh they call them idps internally displaced

21:24

people Palestinians um are taking shelter in the hospital so when seeing these bombings of Courtyards and and uh

21:32

and hospitals there are people that are literally camped out in the hospital

21:37

hallways um any space that there is I mean at one point when I went to sh ala

21:43

um in I walked in you know the doctors were getting a a a site visit kind of walk

21:52

through and I just remember walking into this room and there was a brother I guess they had just brought in that had just been injured and

21:59

um I don’t know I I caught like he his eyes caught my eyes and he was in so

22:05

much pain and just I could I just felt like I was taking up space one I’m not a

22:11

doctor um and two I also you know there’s this also horrific like feeling

22:17

of like where’s our privacy like we have to literally display everything to try and

22:24

get somebody to give a crap about what is happening and just just knowing how much pride Palestinians have it really

22:31

hurts to like see that there is no privacy it’s like they’re justplaying headless babies and you know it’s just

22:36

it was a lot so in that moment I don’t know what it was almost like something slapped me in the face and I was like I need to get out of here and I just told

22:42

the doctors you know do the visit the ones that are going to be located here stay and I’ll meet everybody else in the

22:47

car and I just removed myself because people needed help there they didn’t need an extra body that didn’t really I

22:53

mean I didn’t really I didn’t need to just see you know like I know what’s happening um so yeah just on every level

22:59

horrific um and yeah I mean that’s just a little a little idea of what what I was seeing

23:07

and I can’t even imagine I mean um I’ll pass it over to James but just even thinking about the you know I I was

23:14

following you know second by second of the area we stayed in Jan and like all

23:19

the displaced kids that were outside the building that we were staying in um you

23:24

know I stayed in contact with a lot of people and just seeing them now intense and uh you know the the building that we

23:30

were staying in essentially the families are now all intense as well and just seeing everybody being moved out of this

23:36

so-called safe Zone as they have been in like three different places um but it’s

23:41

just it I can’t even imagine what it looks I mean it was horrible like I still haven’t even processed everything

23:46

and it’s been months and like a couple of months and so I can’t imagine James what it looks like now and so I’m I’m

23:53

going to pass it to you yeah thank thanks Nancy I mean

23:59

there’s there’s a lot more I could say and and and I guess over the course of the next hour or so I’m happy to share

24:05

some Reflections um I think I you know for the reasons you’ve just mentioned I

24:11

think it’s important to tread sensitively I’m assuming that we’re on a call with people who have been following

24:16

very closely what’s happening and and and as you say I mean the the the

24:21

violence and the the the the brutality of what Israel is doing has been

24:27

publicized to the world any one that is paying attention will see and one of the things that I was struck by it just came

24:33

back to the Forefront of my mind as I was listening to you speaking was um

24:38

when you were in the ER and Sh alaa um you it would often be quite

24:45

difficult to get to the patients um there’d be relatives around and and and people would be quite um distressed of

24:51

course but also um there’d be lots of people with cameras um the media from

24:57

the media tent outside but also other folks recording everything on their phones and in many other places you know

25:04

that that would be considered really unacceptable or or or families would be quite angry and annoyed by that and

25:11

there was a real General sort of acceptance for the most part of having to uh present to the world these most

25:20

grotesque and and and horrific experiences um I I think I guess I’m

25:25

assuming that people almost saw it as part of you know the caregiving process that that the doctor and the nurse would

25:31

be there trying to put a line in while um somebody sort of live streams what

25:36

has happened to your child or to your father or your mother you know and

25:43

and that was just really striking that that that that yeah people were having

25:50

to document but also to to to yeah to to communicate these really horrific

25:57

horrific and and deeply sort of interpersonal sort of um

26:03

experiences um maybe the only other thing I would mention just to convey or or to reconvey just how horrific the

26:11

situation is now I mean you’re absolutely right that that that even the most sympathetic media Outlets have not

26:19

been able to convey what is happening in Gaza I follow a lot of uh Palestinian

26:26

and and gazan journalists and and and gazan friends and so on that are living

26:31

and and still in Gaza um and and they portray some of the most horrific things

26:37

um to to to show the world what is happening and what’s been done to them and it still doesn’t quite capture the

26:44

cumulative weight the the barbarity of of of what is happening

26:51

um yeah I mean three of the the healthc care facilities that you mentioned there

26:56

Nancy are no longer functional um al- Nar is not functional um emirati

27:03

is not functional talal Sultan Center is not functional and even then not functional it sounds very passive you

27:09

know it’s not like um you know they just left and closed the doors we we we were at the Taral Sultan Center on I think

27:16

the 27th of May um that night the Israeli uh ground forces were within 200

27:22

M of that clinic and the staff and the patients had to flee literally out of the back door of the of the clinic and

27:29

the teams never returned um the mrti hospital one of the few specialist maternal and pediatric

27:36

hospitals in Gaza no longer functional al- Nar Hospital doing incredible work under the

27:43

most horrific circumstances since day one of the genocide and now um yeah no

27:51

no staff there no patients there the entirety of Rafa has been destroyed um

27:57

so it’s yeah it’s each day just seems to get to get worse

28:05

frankly thank you both so much for sharing that information I’m certainly

28:10

sitting with the heaviness of this context and I think it really puts into

28:16

perspective the necessity of the conversation we are having today um around Healthcare and the health

28:22

catastrophe and Lia so thank you um and thank you both for the work that you’ve

28:27

been doing in my first question um for all of

28:34

you is sort of about this phenomenon of Silence of Western Medical Schools and

28:41

Health Care Systems regarding both the genocide of Palestinians now and the targeting of healthcare workers in aazza

28:49

and not just a Silence from these institutions but a Crackdown and suppression against any healthcare

28:55

workers and Healthcare students who dare speak out against Israel’s apartheid and

29:01

genocidal regime so my first question for you all is why why don’t us

29:07

Healthcare institutions one value Palestinian life and why do they censor

29:12

and punish those who speak out against the destruction of rda’s healthcare

29:19

system can I take that please is can you all hear me still

29:25

Yes okay I’ll take a start at it because I’ve just been lamb basted by my institution um

29:32

publicly and privately and um we can only understand this in the Dynamics of

29:38

coloniality and Empire I think that’s the only way it makes sense um that you

29:43

know I remember when before George Floyd was killed several black and brown

29:49

people were killed in San Francisco by the police and um there was a core of

29:54

Physicians and medical students and nurses working with community members to articulate that racist police violence

30:00

is a health is a health threat it’s a public health threat not only for the killing of that person but the whole

30:06

ripple effect it has in the community that the police are doing these extrajudicial killings of our community

30:12

members who happen to be black and brown and when um you know we were pushing

30:17

UCSF to get involved in that work because it was people we knew it was some one of the people was a patient I

30:23

had as a resident um who was shot by Bart police other people were family

30:28

members um because we’re the second largest employer in San Francisco and they resisted getting involved it’s too

30:35

political you can continue your work George Floyd was killed and the um the

30:40

Chancellor’s office um put out a communication that say we deplore all violence and the black students pushed

30:47

back and they said this isn’t all violence we’re talking about we’re talking about racist police violence um

30:53

so to obscure the Dynamics of power is how coloniality

30:58

works so when you obscure who’s doing the killing and how the killing’s happening and the directionality of the

31:04

killing and the racist Dynamics around the killing then the killing can have this cloud of confusion around it and

31:10

we’re talking about both sides we didn’t ask about how George Floyd killer killer

31:16

George Floyd’s killer felt and and what his perspective was that wasn’t the the the concern when we’re witnessing this

31:22

kind of um Dynamic of power and and violence and so um that the what I think

31:30

is very interesting is the weaponization of identity in order to um in order to

31:37

further obscure the Dynamics of power what we have in um Palestine in that

31:43

region is the same thing we have in India and Kashmir which arundati Roy now is you know the government there is

31:48

trying to send her to jail for comments she made about the coloniality um about

31:54

the British um you know dealing with the aftermath of the British Empire and how it is expressed in dynamics of power

32:01

around the world um these are things that uh are are very challenging to discussed but need to be discussed

32:07

because history and power sediment in our bodies even if there’s not this active killing that we’re seeing right

32:13

now the active genocide there’s a slow genocide whereby black indigenous and brown people here in the United States

32:20

have worse Health outcomes chronically from the burden of chronic disease and that medical aparte exists in Palestine

32:26

as well under Israeli occupation um and so that we have to understand that dynamics of power have real effects

32:32

on health outcomes but most people who talk about Health Equity in the United States and you’ll notice almost all of

32:38

them have been silent about Israel and Palestine they don’t want to talk about power they’ll talk about other things

32:44

very carefully but they won’t actually get at the heart of the matter which is an issue of power um and so once we

32:50

start to look at that here at UCSF we see that our largest donor which is the

32:55

Diller Foundation um funds the canary Mission which has now put me on their website um which doxes and discredits

33:02

and destroys the careers of us academics students and faculty who are critical of Israel um the Diller Foundation also

33:09

funds some of the most rampantly racist islamophobic and anti um anti-arab

33:16

organizations in the EU and the US the Diller Foundation is the largest funer

33:22

of UCSF and has many endowed chairs of professors all over the UC system

33:28

um some of these people like Ron hassner is an expert in torture um some of the

33:33

Muslim Students who were listening to Dr hassner lecture heard him talk about his role in IDF style interrogation of

33:41

Palestinian people um and so this is the the web of relationships of Power are is what we

33:48

are experiencing as we put our voices forward in our moral ethical framework

33:54

as Physicians to say this is wrong we should children should not be be like murdered doctors should not be killed in

34:00

the act of giving care hospitals are sacred places no matter what what color or religion or Creed you are hospitals

34:07

are sacred places of care um that that those um moral Frameworks are in direct

34:12

antithesis they a direct opposition to the Dynamics of power of Empire and

34:18

coloniality and the US’s involvement um is one of of of Empire and it has always

34:25

been in the Middle East and so now now we are you know when you’re saying you know um that you’re are studying

34:32

abolitionist Frameworks in medicine learning from our black and brown communities who’ve been in struggle here

34:38

for hundreds of years in indigenous communities this is a a struggle that is that long and and what you’ll see here

34:45

in the state of California is California’s senator Scott weiner who’s been to Israel several times during this

34:51

genocide and has been publicly attacking me and calling me a Jew hater which I’m not because half of the people who

34:57

involved in our movement here in the Bay Area are Jewish and their our friends and family um but

35:03

specifically um that that that he as a California state Senator is going through the California state curriculum

35:10

and trying to get um different um counties to not or or School boards to

35:16

not take on curriculum of ethnic studies in the public school system that will

35:22

give voice to the history and experiences of brown black and other oppress peoples around the world so why

35:30

can’t we speak of our histories why can’t our children learn history why is this happening not only in Florida but

35:36

in California um and why is this happening right now and so these are the questions that it’s happening from our

35:42

primary education through our medical schools um a desire to silence The

35:48

Narrative of brown black indigenous and other oppressed people who have been

35:54

literally harmed by the medical system um that and and this is a time where there’s so many of us there now and so

36:01

many allies um people like James who will stepped in and said actually know this is wrong we don’t want to base a

36:08

society on a Will To Power we want to base a society on a duty to care around

36:13

the world period and stop that’s it and that’s what we’re seeing right now is this battle over narrative control and

36:20

trying to weaponize oh this is about hating Jews or this is no this is not about that if you know people in Israel

36:27

were atheists um most of the pro-israeli people in the United States are Christian this is not about that um and

36:33

to do that is a slight of hand intellectually that prevents us from talking about what this is which is

36:38

power um and the will to

36:46

power thank you so much Dr Maria for that very thorough um and important

36:52

answer um do any of other other panelists want to address this one or should we move on to the next

36:59

question maybe just a very quick uh thought I’m I’m thinking here about my own experience at medical school and and

37:05

of medical education in the UK uh I mean medical schools are an extension of the

37:13

Societies in which we live and they are subject to to the same the the same kind

37:18

of violent processes and systems that that that shape our lives in other ways you know that they’re not Hallowed

37:25

Ground um and I I think that what we’re seeing here is a product of the history

37:30

of of of medicine and and and of medical education as as ruper mentioned it is it is a violent practice um that that takes

37:38

you know once we acknowledge that we can start to undo the violence of medicine we we start to see that the way that

37:44

medical schools and the medical establishment has behaved uh not only now in relation to uh what’s happening

37:51

in Palestine but in relation to a host of other issues um violence against uh black communities in the US and the

37:57

world over and so on uh is entirely predictable um what what feels

38:03

particularly sort of egregious about what we’re seeing now is that there are kind of multiple manifestations of their

38:10

silence um and in fact they’ve actually been very vocal in some respects so we have a medical establishment that has

38:16

been actively uh that has actively and publicly supported attacks against the

38:22

Palestinian Health Care system so Israeli healthcare workers that have signed open letters calling for attacks

38:30

against some of the hospitals that that that that Nancy and I have mentioned and the people that are working and and

38:36

Sheltering within them um so there’s a there’s a silence in in the face of uh

38:43

of of a a particularly violent Zionist kind of narrative um and then of course

38:51

there’s a silence in respect to what what the Israeli military the the the one of the other manifestations of of of

38:58

the that the Zionist movement is is doing in Palestine right now A reluctance or a refusal to to condemn or

39:04

to demonstrate any semblance of a of of solidarity with Palestine um but as I say all of those

39:12

things are to to a greater or lesser extent predictable when we understand

39:17

the way that the medical establishment exists to to function

39:27

thank you so much Dr James um this sort of goes into our next

39:32

question which I feel like you both touched on um which is what would you

39:38

say to those who push back on healthcare workers and organizers who are holding

39:43

medical institutions accountable under the guise that it disrupts the neutrality of medicine and

39:54

Healthcare medicine’s not neutral that’s what I would say it’s never been neutral our pulse oximeters don’t measure the

40:01

proper oxygen content of black people’s um oxygenation so many black folks were

40:08

sent home erroneously during covid instead of getting oxygen that could have been lifesaving how did that impact

40:15

the health outcomes and the death rates that we saw in the black communities if you were sent home instead of getting admitted for um medication during covid

40:23

medicine has never been neutral it has always been biased to towards White

40:28

landed CIS hetero males um just in terms of like what we study and what we know

40:35

um and and and that’s just the way it’s been um in order to make medicine serve

40:41

all we have to take on exactly these kinds of issues and not just these issues but all of the issues starting

40:49

with here on Stolen land what you know what’s going on with our California Native Community who in our North of San

40:55

Francisco had no access to running water um during the covid pandemic how come

41:01

first of all we don’t know that how come most Californians don’t know that there are California Native people living here

41:06

um who have undergone a very similar genocide where the state of California paid for scalps and heads to clear the

41:14

land um to make way for the Gold Rush um this process we’re seeing happening in

41:19

Kaza right now is a historic process that has happened many times before and we’re living with the outcomes of those

41:26

processes now um so I would say that medicine has never been neutral and it’s important to to recognize you know if it

41:33

was neutral why are why is the entire sea Suite male or you know Asian and white um where are you know the where

41:41

are the people who make decisions um about communities and their health um

41:46

and not just serving as agents for power um and so those are dynamics that need

41:52

to be questioned and brought forward as we strive to make medicine something

41:58

that can serve all um and that really is you know especially as we’re staring

42:03

climate catastrophe in the face um with you know a thousand people dying in you

42:09

know going on their pilgrimage um just right now um it is a critical time for

42:14

us to start stretching our imaginations as much as possible to understand our duties of healthcare um because I had a

42:21

patient who came into the emergency room um just in November who had a ulcerative

42:26

collide Flair never had one hadn’t had one in 20 years um and you know I was

42:33

talking to him and asking him you know what could have possibly set this off and I looked at his last name and I said I’m sorry where where is your family

42:39

from and he just started balling and he said Palestine so even if we’re not you

42:44

know even if we’re not there and we don’t know what’s going on it’s having real impacts on our community members

42:51

whether it’s my colleagues at UCSF who’ve lost a 100 family members in the current violence in a to my patients um

42:59

to people who walk in the hallway other doctors who pulled me aside and said I feel like the administration here

43:05

doesn’t care if I live or die and they’re not even Palestinian they’re just a hijabi they’re just a a Muslim woman who wears a hijab right and so

43:12

these are things that are are important to think about the the impacts of this

43:17

you cannot remain neutral in the face of genocide remaining neutral in the face

43:23

of genocide is a way of tacitly condoning the violence that’s

43:28

happening the same thing with racist police violence you cannot remain neutral when you’re you know the police

43:34

are executing um black and brown and and poor

43:46

people yeah I mean I I I I of course we completely agree I mean I think that

43:52

there’s there’s possibly a distinction there between sort of medical neutrality which as as as rup has mentioned is is

43:59

is a fallacy um but but also political neutrality um and and and we have been

44:06

taught and conditioned um to adopt what appears to be a a kind of a form of

44:13

political neutrality which in it is is in and of itself a a political position

44:20

to to to try and sort of Fain this this this sense of of being neutral or to stay silent to effectively be

44:26

indifferent to to close your eyes and and and and to cover your ears um is is

44:32

a political stance um but again it’s I guess in some respects it’s a product of

44:37

our medical education um or or or medical education in in many parts of the world certainly

44:43

in the UK that um we we fixate on Pharma kinetics and and and um and and clinical

44:51

practice and we in tou and we touch on in passing the the social political an

44:57

economic determinance of health so healthcare workers or or or doctors the medical students that I was training

45:03

with um became very good at diagnosing um Clinical Pathology um but

45:10

they never felt or or they weren’t imbued with this sense that um part of their responsibility is to to tease out

45:19

uh and and to rail against the the political and economic determinants of

45:24

Health um and see this now when I’m teaching medical students I ask you know

45:30

we go through our our uh social and political determinants of Health lectures and at the very end I say you

45:35

know where do your responsibilities start and end um and we have the sort of image of the Upstream determinants of

45:42

Health um and very few of of of of the students that we engage with feel that

45:47

it’s their responsibility to to even put a finger on the political systems the

45:53

economic processes capitalism white supremacy um that that shape the way that our lives are configured um that

46:00

they just don’t see it as as as part of their kind of moral duty uh or or or one of their professional

46:09

obligations and James thank you for saying that and it absolutely is because we will be ineffective in our work and

46:15

this is the work that Raj Patel and I did in our book inflamed deep medicine in the anatomy of Injustice we coin this

46:22

term deep medicine to help give a framework to think exactly of that James so instead of just studying you know the

46:29

smallest invisible thing we look at the largest invisible things the structures with which um inside which our lives are

46:37

circumscribed um and those structures are really what’s driving the burden of chronic inflammatory disease that most

46:43

of the people I see in the hospital are suffering and dying from um these these structures also lead in their most

46:49

egregious and disgusting form um to the depravity we’re seeing in kza um to genocide to the eradication of whole

46:56

people systems of thought and and God forbid their incredible ways of tending the Earth um which are are critical

47:03

right now that the the people who know how to tend the land that they’re on are are kept intact and and healthy and

47:09

teaching um the rest of us how to live well on this planet that’s going up in Flames um and so I think that when you

47:16

have a group of people who have um not learned how to be literate in power then

47:22

taking on um this language um with Health Equity in particular I hold these

47:28

people to a a higher level a higher bar because they’re using the language of movements but they have not

47:35

been instructed in dynamics of power so they become mouthpieces for coloniality

47:40

they become actually the foot soldiers of Empire um and that’s where you know

47:45

we have to recognize that this is a this is a a critical moment um to think about

47:53

how this situation in huzza can open up our minds um to become more courageous as healthcare workers to speak up for

48:00

something so horrific that’s happening there and understand how that plays out within our context here if anything the

48:08

silencing that has happened and at my University we have had you know residents who’ve given lectures who

48:14

happen to be Palestinian talk about Medical Apartheid their lectures are taken down from online violence

48:20

prevention experts their lectures they mentioned one slide about kza taken down online residents who are Health Equity

48:26

resid put one slide up pediatricians about the kids who’ve been killed in Kaza their lectures taken down in their

48:32

their department chair like just Department wide shames them on an email like how dare you bring this up um it’s

48:38

over and over and over again that this silencing is happening so if this really was an issue of you know oh we don’t

48:44

talk about that um why is there so much silencing um and that really speaks to

48:50

those dynamics of power like I was Raising with the Diller foundation with money with power the will to power um

48:56

that us uh doctors can express views that reflect the views of the US state

49:02

department but we can’t reflect the views of other human beings on planet Earth that’s not right um and so it

49:09

really is a time to understand those Dynamics and push and create some space for us to to advance an agenda of Health

49:16

for

49:22

all yeah thank you so much for those answers you know I’m actually wondering

49:27

Nancy how the language of neutrality has shown up for you as a cultural resistor

49:33

and organizer I know you know when I was younger before I went to medical school we got so much push back as young

49:40

organizers um about our events not being neutral or welcoming to all as cultural

49:46

organizers so um in your two decades experience I’m curious sort of how you’ve pushed back or how you address um

49:55

those types of arguments when people bring them up I’m uh I’m so past that at this point

50:05

where I’m like it’s 2024 like you’ve got to be living in some sort of cave somewhere absolutely ignorant to the

50:12

world if you know I mean you know people bring up the religious aspect and as I’m

50:18

a Christian Palestinian I don’t believe that one single Christian in America that justifies this genocide is is

50:25

religious in any aspect because I don’t know one religion um that teaches you

50:30

that what’s happening there is okay not one um and so I feel it’s just a cowardly way out of taking a real

50:37

stance um and again at this point I just feel like if you’re a human I don’t care

50:43

what the race nothing when you see what is happening if you um wherever you’ve

50:51

been brought up like you can see that there is something seriously wrong and I just I’m I’m just at the point where you

50:56

know this new there’s no there is an oppressor and there is the oppressed that’s it and if people do make excuses

51:04

they’ve either been completely brainwashed as we see with Israeli Society according to their own uh

51:10

Institute uh democracy Institute with the surveys that they’ve been doing

51:15

consistently ongoing that shows almost you know 85 87% of them that are fine

51:21

with what’s happening in um or they’re being paid you know that was another

51:26

with the with the uh the push back is who who is funding them where does their

51:32

funding come from um because those are the ones that make the decision um and it’s sad that you know there’s no regard

51:38

for human life when it comes to money to some people um and I think that’s a difference between us and them and so

51:44

for those people that benefit from this um and those people that make excuses

51:50

for it I have absolutely not uh a second more to give

51:58

yeah thank you for that powerful response um thank you this is a question that I think is

52:07

important for everyone to answer actually as we think about and some of you have touched on this um that what is

52:15

the moral duty of Physicians to address structural violence like the ongoing genocide in razza you know what does

52:22

that mean for a practice of medicine and care and I think it’s really important to hear this answer both from the

52:28

perspective of people in healthare and also from community members and organizers um who who are the ones who

52:35

should inform us on what that care should look

52:46

like I can jump in with some initial thoughts I mean I the first thing to say is is I it’s interesting that you

52:53

mentioned um medicine and care because I much prefer talking about care um in the

52:58

sense that it’s a much broader set of practices I think it also challenges the sort of the the the way that we’ve come

53:05

to understand or or the way that medicine is enacted which is um often

53:10

quite patriarchal quite masculine um but but yeah we talk more and more now about

53:16

a kind of an an ethics of care uh and how that can manifest in all aspects of

53:21

our lives and also how it’s not an an exclusive practice you know we talk about medicine as though it’s the it’s

53:27

it’s um it’s the sole kind of practice of of um MDS and so on but but care being

53:34

something that is our Collective responsibility um I mean I think again

53:39

maybe to come back to my earlier point it it is so much a part of how I believe we should practice as doctors as nurses

53:45

as healthc care providers um and yet it has been increasingly sort of sidelined

53:52

um particularly when you work in uh profit seeking Healthcare systems but

53:57

but but not exclusively so um the NHS is is well it’s it’s very much under attack

54:04

but it’s also an imperfect system and and a violent system at at at that um

54:11

but but yeah care has been has been sidelined and and despite the fact that that I would consider that it is um yeah

54:18

I mean it’s it’s it’s our core kind of moral obligation as health care providers um I think it will take a lot

54:25

of work to to to reenter care um I think I mean I do draw some hope maybe just to

54:32

be uh slightly more positive for a moment in what we’re seeing with uh in large part abolitionist movements that

54:40

are pushing not only to destabilize but to think really uh seriously about what

54:48

comes next what follows um and and that’s where I’ve seen some of the most

54:54

kind of vibrant and exciting kind of conversations about um the kind of radical reimagination of of what

55:01

Healthcare is what it should look like what our society should look like um yeah how we can manifest care and

55:07

practice that in in you know in our wider

55:18

communities I would say thank you for that James I would say that

55:24

um because the the burden of disease that we see um as

55:29

Physicians is chronic inflammatory and now like on the extreme this genocide

55:36

which is going to register as intergenerational trauma for Generations um that if we’re not

55:43

addressing things at the structural level we we have the incorrect diagnosis so we’re not going to stop this the

55:49

rising tide of Diabetes by giving people more insulin um by focusing on individuals we have to focus on the

55:55

structure that are driving this um this you know crisis of of our food system

56:03

and and diabet and diabetics of diabetes um so this these these issues are caused

56:10

at the structural level um so we must perform our duties at the structural level as well which doesn’t mean we

56:17

abandon our patients and we continue to do that work but it means that we have to get involved in partnering with

56:24

Community workers like Nancy who’s got her eyes on the ground and knows what’s happening in her community um because

56:31

the people who have instructed me the most on structures that need to change are the people who are being crushed by

56:38

them um and so when we start to listen to our communities and take our

56:44

directives from those people in terms of what is making people sick and how people know they need to be better um

56:50

then we we start changing what um James you were just describing which is the patriarchal paternalist ISC Dynamic of

56:57

medicine and Medicine becomes um an agent of service um an agent of

57:02

accompaniment of communities to empower their health um on their terms and so

57:07

that is a very different kind of medicine and again it is coming from the Viewpoint of an abolitionist PR practice

57:14

now that to say that is the professional class ever going to be at the Forefront

57:20

of a transformational revolutionary movement no because most people in the professional class are careerists and

57:25

they care more about their you know their their career than they do about movements and that’s how doctors betray

57:33

um that’s how the medical system bet continues to betray the communities that they pretend to serve so even if they

57:39

put their Billboards up that they’re advancing Health Equity on the side they’re like you know undercutting the

57:44

the real estate Dynamics in those communities and destabilizing communities um so I think it’s important

57:50

to be real that if if we’re in these spaces we have to in in essence commit

57:55

some sort of like professional suicide um just like you know we have to commit class suicide in order to build a world

58:01

where everyone can be free um and that is something that we’re we’re facing right now like how do we how do we

58:08

actually take on these structures how do we build or Liberate the resources of medicine to start serving the

58:15

Abolitionist um dreams and um imaginings of our community members that they’re articulating so clearly um with regards

58:23

to climate and I think you know we spoke about this the other day let’s build a medical school um on liberated native

58:29

land let’s meet with people and say like how do we do this um let’s learn from the Cuban model let’s learn from places

58:35

around the world where people have actually done this with medicine and have turned medicine into an agent like

58:40

a a system of care um that and I also use that word um James because I think

58:46

that you know Physicians have been so complicit in the violence of colonial

58:51

Colonial medicine um and we continue to be every day in every patient in counter which is why your doctor interrupts you

58:57

in the first 11 seconds of sitting down with you um your voice doesn’t matter as a patient um the doctor knows better

59:03

about you than you do um these are dynamics that have been carried down through history um and their dynamics of

59:10

power so I I do think that if we do are not operating on a structural level we

59:15

will never see an end to health disparities and when I said that in 2018 at a lecture when the medical students

59:22

at UCSF asked me to talk about the book I was writing I was called into the office and shouted out for an hour and

59:28

told I would never be a leader at UCSF um you know by the Executive Vice Chancellor at that time Dan Lowenstein

59:34

um because it was naming those words naming racial capitalism naming settler colonialism naming those things that are

59:41

actually structures of power that is so intimidating to people who are directly

59:47

benefiting off of that but in order to change it and shift it to become more

59:52

equitable distribution of resources of power we have to name it we have to talk

59:57

about it and we have to be you know have courage to build our movement within our ranks and that’s happening there’s

1:00:03

hundreds of medical students doctors staff nurses who have been engaging in

1:00:08

the work of um free um to see a free

1:00:18

Palestine um thank you so much I’ll just I’ll just add you know

1:00:28

I I feel like for people that are not speaking out they have to really

1:00:34

re-evaluate what they’re doing um this is like purposely

1:00:40

inflicted like this is not you know um you know it’s

1:00:47

avoidable and I feel like if your job is to help people save people um I just

1:00:55

don’t understand how what’s happening and with the amount of footage that has

1:01:00

been coming out like never before don’t feel compelled to say

1:01:05

something um and you know it I I do believe like the people that have spoken out you know it

1:01:12

always it always just takes that one person to start that role you know it’s

1:01:17

that domino effect and so if you know if you

1:01:23

feel like you want to say something but you hold it but just do it I really I encourage everybody to

1:01:30

speak out I encourage to um you know start organizing um so that you know

1:01:36

these institutions divest um from genocide

1:01:42

um I you know here’s the thing Palestinians just even the smallest

1:01:48

children that I encountered um have absolutely no fear

1:01:54

whatsoever they nothing but God they like nothing there’s nothing that can

1:01:59

scare them and that’s why Israel will never win this because when you don’t I mean there’s there’s they they they’re

1:02:07

trying to scare them I mean at this point it’s past that they’ve seen everything they have lost everything and

1:02:14

so you know for me I just feel like we you know what do we have what are we really losing we’re going to lose a

1:02:20

job like really people are losing like you know I’m a mother so watch mothers

1:02:27

you know holding their dead children they never you know I imagine like I I honestly try and put myself and just be

1:02:34

like what would I I’d lose my mind like I could never have that strength that they have but I I do everything else

1:02:40

that I do have I haven’t been put in that position thank God but you know they don’t have that choice I you know I

1:02:47

do everything that I can do um in my power to speak out um and I think that

1:02:54

especially being a health cooworker and seeing um you know just not even having the supplies to wrap up a burn wound

1:03:03

like I you know like I just I I I really it really you

1:03:09

know and again I’m I organize um you know I’ve worked you know I I visited

1:03:14

children in 2014 in um the West Bank that were being brought from Razzi when they were buming

1:03:20

in 2014 um you know it really boggles my mind that we’re even have having to have

1:03:28

this conversation like it’s really like I just don’t understand like where is

1:03:33

Humanity um but as healthcare workers uh to think about everything that you have

1:03:38

and everything that is accessible to you and then thinking about you know just trying to imagine working under the

1:03:46

conditions that Palestinian healthcare workers are working under um and you

1:03:52

know making doe with the I mean just you know sorry something we didn’t touch on

1:03:58

is also just thinking about the everyday issues right people with diabetes um you know people with kidney failure uh

1:04:05

dialysis machines and how they’re not getting four hours 4 days a week anymore it’s you know there’s what a couple of

1:04:11

machines literally like a few machines in the whole of and so you know thinking about those everyday things that have

1:04:17

also been pushed to the side because right now they’re dealing with hundreds of thousands of injuries uh you know and

1:04:25

so again um if as a healthcare worker

1:04:30

people don’t feel compelled to say something do something organized um you

1:04:36

have to really reconsider um your career and like why you’re really doing

1:04:46

it gosh thank you so much for that Nancy I wish I could just like bundle this

1:04:52

that comment and send it to all of my peers honestly in medical education I think that is so powerful and such

1:04:59

honestly like a important framework for us moving forward um thank you all for

1:05:04

this for the incredible information you have provided today I wish I could pick

1:05:09

your generative and revolutionary brains all day um but I do have one last

1:05:15

question for all of you um and hopefully a question that um allows us to look

1:05:21

forward um and move forward so the question I have last is what does the

1:05:27

future of healthcare need to look like for all of us to be free because the current system certainly isn’t it as

1:05:34

we’ve discussed today so what is all of your radical imaginations of this generative Health and Care system so we

1:05:43

know what we’re fighting against but what are we fighting

1:05:52

for I’m happy to jump in but but the yeah this is such an exciting question and one that I mean I talk to friends

1:05:59

about but I’m I’m really glad to have the opportunity to talk to to with you all about now and it feels particularly

1:06:06

urgent I must say having just come from a conference where people are suited and booted and and and talking about the

1:06:12

future of Palestine and of Gaza and the health system in Gaza where Palestinian

1:06:17

voices are a minority in that room um where you know that that we were

1:06:22

fortunate enough yesterday to have um some colleagues dial in from Gaza um but

1:06:28

very much a minority the these decisions with respect to the future of the health system in Gaza are are these discussions

1:06:34

are are happening they’re live right now so if we don’t engage this question of what does a radical reimagination of of

1:06:41

Medicine of healthcare look like um then then the opportunity will be lost and if

1:06:47

it’s not now if it’s not in the wake of of of of this genocidal violence then

1:06:53

then when will it be you know um I I’m I’m reminded of of I mean gasan has

1:06:59

talked a lot about liberatory medicine and the kind of liberatory potential of medicine mads Gilbert talks about

1:07:06

solidarity medicine as sort of antithetical to to humanitarian medicine

1:07:11

um there’s one thing that I’ve been sort of thinking a lot about um when I’ve

1:07:16

tried to Grapple with this notion of kind of humanitarian complicity um which is that if the aim

1:07:24

of genocide is is eradication um then simply to practice

1:07:30

medicine even if you are the most conservative physician in the world if if you go to Gaza and you practice

1:07:35

medicine and you are able to save a life then you are practicing intrinsically a

1:07:41

form of kind of anti- genocidal resistance whether you realize it or not you are resisting the genocidal ambition

1:07:49

to to to to eradicate um but that in and of itself

1:07:54

isn’t necessarily Liber medicine there has to be something else there is something that and I think I’m

1:08:00

I’m I’m sort of trying to pull together everything that we’ve just been talking about it’s about really then being able

1:08:05

to put a finger on the settler Colonial determinants of Health you’re not simply saving a life for today you are saying

1:08:12

there is something sick in this system in the occupation in what enabled this

1:08:18

genocide um you know genocidal violence doesn’t just happen from one day to the next it bubbles it grows it is allowed

1:08:26

to Fester that genocidal intent um and then we see it now play out with with

1:08:32

complete impunity this is a this is a a global system that is sick at its very

1:08:37

core and a liberatory medicine not only continues to provide care and to administer care in situations of extreme

1:08:45

violence and in situations of where where violence manifests more insidiously but it also is political it

1:08:53

agitates it’s activist it takes to the the streets um you know and for me I

1:08:58

think that that is that is what the future of medicine needs to look like and and if it doesn’t um we we will be

1:09:05

in even greater trouble than than we already

1:09:10

are thank you James um I see the future of

1:09:16

medicine um so this is my my my musician self my composer self um so grateful to

1:09:23

have had a life of equally spending time composing music and being a doctor

1:09:29

because it means that my imagination has always been a part of my practice and

1:09:34

when we don’t exercise the imagination we feel to see what possible um I think

1:09:39

medicine needs to um adopt a vision of whole systems health and by that I

1:09:45

mean human beings re-entering the sacred the web the Web of Life um our

1:09:50

relationship to the Earth um looking at the places where we have wounded our

1:09:56

duties to care for one another and to the Web of Life and if we attend to those on a on a primary level um if we

1:10:04

stop seeing the Earth as something to be you first of all as a thing if we stop seeing the Earth as an animate object to

1:10:10

be exploited and extracted from if we stop seeing the water and the the soil as something to be worked and and used

1:10:18

but as as a being that we have relationship to as we start to mend our relationship relationality to all beings

1:10:25

then we can start um advancing a system of care that is based on those duties

1:10:31

those duties of looking out for one another um so I see the future of medicine as being a place where the best

1:10:39

of Western science comes together with indigenous wisdom to learn how to be well on this Earth together to learn how

1:10:45

to share the things that keep life thriving and healthy that cultivate and support our biodiversity and our

1:10:50

histories where we no longer engage in epistemicide where we no longer engage and allow for systems of domination that

1:10:57

seek to extinguish some ways of knowing while privileging other um ways that are in service of domination um so I see the

1:11:04

system of medicine in the future as being one of deep equity and deep um humility of learning about how to be

1:11:12

well together on this planet about coming into new kinds of um scholarly

1:11:18

and um academic relationships to advance our our ways of knowing together

1:11:25

and to do that always in service of communities and always belonging to communities um because we’re not

1:11:32

separate from we are a part of we are not separate from the earth we are a part of her we’re not separate from the

1:11:38

web of life we are a part of it and so when we see what’s happening in kza what hurts my soul so deeply what hurts like

1:11:44

and like what’s what’s called me you asked in the beginning of this what made me respond is it crushed something so

1:11:50

deeply in what I hold true about health U which is that we have to honor

1:11:56

living beings living things that this kind of violence and destruction is going to actually grow which is why

1:12:03

we’re seeing these cop cities pop up all over the United States the militarized response to the students who have been

1:12:09

standing up against this genocide this this mindset is ready for the coming

1:12:14

collapse of climate the people who are doing what they’re doing in kza know what time it is know that the resources

1:12:20

are scarce know that people are going to be hungry know that food systems are collapsing know that clean water is

1:12:26

going to be harder to come by they are ready so I say the future of medicine has got to get ready in another way to

1:12:32

build radical deep systems of care where we work together where doctors are a part of that work um but not leading it

1:12:39

and not you know in charge of it but following our community members and what they know has to be secured so that we

1:12:46

can make sure everyone gets through this pinch point in history human history in a way that helps our Collective

1:12:51

Consciousness evolve um to a greater to a greater

1:12:59

degree thank you um so you know I’m I’m probably not the

1:13:07

most um speak on this but I will say what I

1:13:14

do know is that uh one um I would like to

1:13:21

see not one genocide organization or um

1:13:29

Zionist uh funer in healthcare period um

1:13:34

I would like to see the $10.4 million a day from my tax money from us payers tax money um be put into the Health Care

1:13:42

system and not being funneled into more weapons um for Israel um and then you

1:13:49

know just lastly I would love to you know at that juncture where it’s you

1:13:54

know being rebuilt in these conversations is to have Palestinian doctors who again you know have been um

1:14:01

dealing with trauma like their whole lives um to be able to be in this

1:14:07

discussion and tell us how they’ve dealt with it and what systems can be put in place to better help them um you know

1:14:14

hopefully not for any future genocide but um you know to see you know to to um

1:14:20

just have a better structure infrastructure um of the system thank

1:14:29

you thank you all so much for offering those beautiful radical imaginations it

1:14:34

has been my absolute honor Nancy Dr Myra Dr James to facilitate this conversation

1:14:41

with you all and to learn from you all um and to hold sacred everything you’ve shared today I hope the audience feels

1:14:48

the same I’m going to go ahead and pass this on to Zia and Macio um who we’re

1:14:55

also the directors of where olive trees weep um to facilitate the Q&A from the

1:15:00

audience and also offer us some closing

1:15:06

remarks oh thank you thank you thank you deos to

1:15:13

you de and for your courage for your um

1:15:18

truth speaking to power and for inspiring us um I have just one

1:15:25

question what would you um what can we

1:15:31

do those of us that are sitting in our homes and watching and we’ve been

1:15:36

donating we’ve been going to protest what else can we do to be in solidarity

1:15:42

in a in a and support in a real way what would you

1:15:50

advice Nancy James ruper yeah Nancy um

1:15:55

if you want to mention something about eyewitness Palestine

1:16:03

um we lost but is in the we put it in the chat

1:16:09

withness James what do you from being in Gaza what do you think those of us who

1:16:14

are sitting and watching every day the genocide and F can do and be of real

1:16:21

support yeah I mean I I I would say don’t don’t stop don’t don’t um you know let

1:16:28

the fatigue take hold um because our colleagues and our friends and our comrades in in Gaza are are not

1:16:34

fatiguing um you know as as as as recently as the 5th of June I was we we

1:16:40

were all treating patients on the floor of of sha Alexa um I worked there back

1:16:45

in December January and it was worse than I had ever seen it before that that

1:16:50

the situation there is is escalating it is deteriorating dramatically

1:16:56

um so we need to continue we need to keep the pressure up um I mean I think I

1:17:01

feel I sense that I’m speaking to uh friends here who are already in one form

1:17:07

or another very actively engaged um but to to continue doing that Outreach um to

1:17:13

be present in our communities and speaking to people that perhaps aren’t as engaged um sh certainly an escalation

1:17:20

of of of of Street protest I think is important I mean I think we don’t talk enough about direct action um in the UK

1:17:27

I mean pal action and and several other um fantastic groups that are you know we’re not just going and doing the

1:17:33

marches which of course are uh symbolic and important but they’re going to the the the businesses that that that uh

1:17:41

that construct the parts that make the drones that drop the bombs and they are smashing the windows and they’re they’re

1:17:47

they’re ripping the doors off the hinges um this is this is how we respond to to

1:17:53

to genocidal violence um so I think these things are important

1:17:58

and I think perhaps just to come back to one of the points that ny’s mentioned that um we haven’t spoken enough about

1:18:03

which is the the centrality of of um of Palestinian voices Palestinian

1:18:09

perspectives um you know I know that a lot of people are giving money um there’s been some quite troubling stuff

1:18:15

in the news in the last couple of days about several uh British well a British

1:18:22

charity um with some now sort of dodgy

1:18:27

kind of political connections related to the CEO and you know we’re starting again to see the sort of the violence of

1:18:32

Charities and the violence of of Nos and the kind of ngoization of of of community organizing and so on so I

1:18:40

would say give your money to Palestinian organizations give your money to Gaza Sunbirds and the Gaza surf school and um

1:18:47

you know the break dancing school in Gaza City because they’re going to need money to rebuild um and the kids want to

1:18:53

surf again on Gaza Beach you know you don’t need to give more money to to Medical Aid for Palestinians

1:19:00

unfortunately we need to give money to unra so I can’t believe I’m suggesting we crowdfund for a UN agency but we

1:19:06

certainly need to be fully supportive of onra at the moment um but yeah to be politically Savvy about where we invest

1:19:12

our our our political energy and our our our financial kind of support right now

1:19:18

as well thank you thank you

1:19:25

Nancy would you like is there anything you would like no I I think can you hear

1:19:32

me can you hear us can you hear me you’re in I can hear you can you hear

1:19:37

me yes yeah my the zoom keeps cutting

1:19:43

out can you hear me now yes yeah no I think I think uh James

1:19:51

covered it and I’m so glad you know I just want to add I’m so glad you mentioned the break dancing school the camp Breakers crew a friend of mine

1:19:57

Muhammad started that school and I was fortunate fortunate enough even though

1:20:03

it was he had been hit twice at that point in March I did some workshops with

1:20:08

the kids there towards the end of March and you know another thing about is just

1:20:14

all children everywhere you it’s just children like it’s not a lie that half the population is children it is all

1:20:19

kids and they are the most beautiful um just loving children I’ve ever met in my

1:20:26

life you know even throughout what they’re going through they were just able to radiate love and just certain

1:20:34

things that the kids would say to me especially in the breakdown school one of the kids turned around he said you know if you want to come back you should

1:20:42

because I feel like I’m on vacation and it was hard because it’s

1:20:47

like I was there for one day with them you know what I’m saying but like they were just so appreciative another one

1:20:53

was like you know it’s okay I asked him if he was scared cuz there was um there was shelling from the tanks going on

1:20:59

nearby and I asked him if they were scared and he said no it’s fine he says what God has written will happen if we

1:21:05

die we die if we live we live and it’s just sad to see children speaking like that like they shouldn’t have to even

1:21:10

think about things like that so definitely support the initiatives on the ground I will add a couple of

1:21:18

organizations um friend of mine ban who’s a journalist there has an organization ilak for you for me for us

1:21:26

um and there is also an organization shabab they’re all on Instagram and I’m

1:21:32

happy to share um with you

1:21:39

guys it’s more difficult to they have paypals and gundies um but they are

1:21:44

getting the money there are people helping them get the money in and they’re doing Mutual Aid

1:21:49

distribution um they give out food water and money and that’s what people need

1:21:55

and so if you know definitely support the initiatives on the ground James is absolutely right um even new

1:22:01

organizations that are popping up they’re already Palestinians doing the work support them in doing the work

1:22:07

because they know how to do it best and they know what they’re thank you so much thank you so

1:22:14

much this is very helpful very helpful I say um just James if there are

1:22:22

uh if there are efforts that are being led by Palestinian Physicians and healthcare workers to rebuild fza um I I

1:22:29

would love to learn more about how to support that um and then I would also

1:22:34

say for folks at home you know contact your local medical school and be like

1:22:41

hey what are you guys doing about this genocide in Gaza um just even as a patient if you’re a patient there your

1:22:46

doctor’s office the where you go um because when they hear from you that you actually care about this they then then

1:22:53

they’re that you’re questioning why they’re silent notice you guys haven’t said anything about this um that that it

1:22:59

puts them on the spot and and they they are required you know they they will be required to answer for their their

1:23:06

violence their silence um and their complicity um and so the more we put them on the record as being complicit

1:23:12

and and not coming out um it’s it’s critical not only for the moment but also

1:23:18

[Music] historically thank you thank you thank

1:23:24

thank you thank you M for this wonderful facilitation and um thank you everyone

1:23:30

for giving us your time to to learn from you and to inspire us to continue being

1:23:37

in solidarity and support in a real ways so yeah we it I I constantly by hearing

1:23:45

you I I I was feeling spiritual messages some I don’t know the

1:23:52

way you’re framing the the how Med is and is should be he opens my heart

1:23:58

because that’s the Baseline of a just Society is a baseline of a just society

1:24:05

and so to hear this I don’t know yeah you help me yeah see the world in a see

1:24:12

your role in an entirely different way and I thank you so much for this I I’m really with this morning we’re

1:24:19

saying these doctors are the real saints you guys you are the real

1:24:25

saints because it’s it’s incredible what is happening and I mean no saood here no

1:24:33

saood here we’re all we’re all in this mess together and we’re all building the just world where we’ve all got a flip

1:24:40

but I I don’t take the sainthood not me the saood is is a very simple grade you

1:24:47

see Saint should be the should the basic grade of humanity that’s what I mean it’s just that we are below that it’s

1:24:54

just Saud is not something about Saud is the Baseline but most of us are not most

1:24:59

people are not in that way yeah thank you for your work thank

1:25:06

you for your presence and let’s stop this madness that’s it we cannot have

1:25:12

Humanity we can’t sit and continue witness this happening this has to stop

1:25:18

and may this be an opening for all of us to see more clearly that this is not the

1:25:25

world we can continue living in this has to

1:25:30

change thank you we will be sharing all the resources on the film website and

1:25:36

we’ll sending an email as well with the resources we heard today so we’ll continue and we meet again tomorrow at

1:25:44

the same time for another conversation with um um sorry I forgot what’s tomorrow

1:25:51

don’t Lisa help me it’s yeah I think we have a activist and

1:25:57

lawyers tomorrow speaking about the urgency of acting today yeah I put it in

1:26:03

the chat Lisa thank youis also for holding space for all of us to meet

1:26:09

together at this time and for this to be shared yes and thank you to our team

1:26:15

yeah thank you caros be will take care everyone thank you thank you thank you

oooooo