Palestine, mon amour! (23)

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Sweeping support for full UN membership for Palestine | Inside Story

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overwhelming support at the UN General

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Assembly for palestine’s bid for full

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membership it echoes the rising

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condemnation of Israel’s war on Gaza but

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the US says it will veto the motion

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again at the security Council so what

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difference could the resolution make

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this is Inside Story

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the program I’m

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Neve Barker the International Community

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has debated Palestinian statehood for

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decades full membership at the United

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Nations would effectively recognize that

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sweeping support at the general assembly

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is the first step but the final seal of

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approval comes from the UN Security

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Council last month the United States

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vetoed a resolution tabled by Algeria

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and says it will do so again so can the

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moral weight of world opinion reflected

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at the UN General Assembly pressure the

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US to reconsider what difference could

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the backing of 143 Nations make to

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palestine’s non-member special Observer

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status we’ll explore these and other

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issues with our guests in a moment but

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first this report by cater Lopez

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toan condemnation of Israel’s war on

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Gaza has led to protests like the

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from saana in Yemen to Jordan’s capital

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Aman rallies and solidarity with

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Palestinians that first took hold in US

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universities have spread around the

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world and at the United Nations the

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general assembly voted overwhelmingly to

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Grant new rights and privileges to

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Palestine it’s also calling on the

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security Council to reconsider

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palestine’s bid to become a full UN

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member

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we want

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peace we want freedom a yes

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vote is a vote for Palestinian

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existence it is not against any state

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Israel says the move is absurd

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especially after hamas’s attack on

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October the 7th while using a prop the

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Israeli Ambassador said the resolution

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disregards un statutes you are shredding

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the UN Charter with your own hands

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yes yes that’s what you’re doing

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shredding the UN

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Charter shame on you the UN vote may be

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widely symbolic but it comes as

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countries such as Spain Ireland and

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other EU members plan to formally

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recognize the state of Palestine on May

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21st the International Community are

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overwhelmingly uh overwhelmingly saying

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uh that they want that long-term uh

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resolution uh to the conflict and that

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that involves uh two states despite new

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rights and privileges Palestine remains

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a non-member Observer State at the UN

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without the right to vote and the US has

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made it clear it will use its veto power

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to block Palestinian membership and

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statehood until important issues are

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resolved with Israel Kia Lan Al jazer

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for insight story

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right well let’s bring in our guests now

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from Rome we’re joined by Jeffrey sax

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he’s a former special advisor to the UN

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Secretary General now the director of

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the center for sustainable development

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at Columbia University in rala Mustafa

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bouti is the General Secretary of the

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Palestinian national initiative and in

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London is y melberg an associate fellow

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at the Middle East and North Africa

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program at the UK Think Tank chattam

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house a very warm welcome to all three

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of you welcome to Inside Story Yos I

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wonder if I can start with you if you

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could help us set the scene because

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until now Palestine has only held the

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status of an observer at the UN what

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does the passing the overwhelming

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passing of this uh new resolution what

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does that mean in terms of the rights

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and privileges afforded to Palestine

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now I in in principle it hasn’t changed

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much because it’s the security Council

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that such a resolution will actually

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bestow a recognition as a state but I

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think symbolically it is a very

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important important step forward in

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which you have more than 140 States

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actually very clearly decare that they

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want to see Palestine recognized as as

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as as a state and at the same time it’s

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known to everyone that the only country

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that blocks Palestinian statehood for

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being internationally recognized is the

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United States while the United States is

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moving slowly in different direction

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when it comes to its relations with the

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United States I think moving towards

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that and probably in if this is the

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direction we might see the United States

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also at one point or another hopefully

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soon follow what the general assembly

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just said yesterday and recognized

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Palestinian

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State uh Jeffrey following on from that

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amongst some of the rights and priv is

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now afforded the Palestinians is the

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right to be seated among member states

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alphabetically um an ability also to

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submit proposals and amendments directly

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without having to do it through another

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country as Yi says though these only

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seem to be a slight move forward when it

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comes to what the Palestinian state is

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really looking forward to is this

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largely symbolic

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then well it’s important uh it’s more

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than symbolic it demonstrates where

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World opinion is overwhelmingly and it

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is correct the United States is the sole

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obstacle uh actually not only to

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palestine’s membership in the United

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Nations as the

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194th member but actually the United

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States is the sole obstacle in my view

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to peace in the region because with the

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membership with sovereignty with the

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implementation of a globally recognized

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State on the 1967 borders with capital

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and East Jerusalem and control over the

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Islamic holy sites there would also be

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the ability to have peace with the

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countries of the region as in the Arab

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peace initiative and in the Arab and

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Islamic leadership statement in Riad

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last November so the United States is

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not only blocking a Palestinian State

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it’s blocking peace it’s blocking peace

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on behalf of a radical extremist uh

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violent Israeli government which is

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committing massive war

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crimes and quite likely the icj will

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rule genocide this is what the United

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States is enabling right now it’s

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absolutely uh distressing for me as an

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American to see this young people people

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on my campus were a gas uh at what this

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Administration is doing I sense early on

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in this conversation at eagerness by the

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two of you have spoken so far to focus

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on the obstacles that are clearly in the

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way when it comes to palestine’s full

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membership but before we go into the

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obstacles Mustafa turning to you if this

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decision of the UN means anything it’s

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where you are your reaction to What

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played out of the

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UN well it means a lot besides the

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symbolic aspect of it it sends a message

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a very powerful political message that

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the world is for the of Palestinians to

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be free from occupation from the system

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of aparti from this terrible genocide

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that is happening and while we are

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talking by the way the Israelis are

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committing terrible massacres at this

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very moment in rafah and inside Gaza

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City in a zun neighborhood and in

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jabalia trying to ethnically cleanse one

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more time jabalia area so of course the

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whole world is sending a very powerful

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message here that they don’t accept

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what’s happening to Palestinians but

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more than that I think this vote that

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took place exposed how isolated the

8:37

United States and Israel are you have to

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remember that the United States of

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America this huge power and Israel could

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not mobilize more than three countries

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to vote with them considering that the

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others are palao Micronesia Marshall

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Islands and Israel and United States

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itself I mean with all due respect these

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little Islands don’t really I mean we

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all know that they they they vote

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according to what Americans tell them so

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in in reality this is a huge isolation

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of of the American position one one

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moment please and also it shows uh how

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isolated the fact that the United States

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have obstructed the membership in the

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United Nations security Council it is

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totally unacceptable and the world is

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saying that right absolutely we will

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delve no doubt into us uh obstruction as

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you say I wonder though practically

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speaking Mustafa given what has played

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out of the UN whether practically this

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makes any difference to the suffering of

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Palestinians in Gaza and Palestinians in

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the occupied West

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Bank not a lot and not enough for sure

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it’s very little if you compare it to

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what needs to be done uh netanyahu’s

9:58

Behavior in uh undermining what was a

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possible agreement for a ceasefire when

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Hamas accepted what was proposed to them

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by the United States Egypt and Qatar

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after they were told that Israel accepts

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it and once Hamas accepted it Israel

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undermined it and Netanyahu initiated

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his rafah operation which will not be

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limited to the Eastern side of rafah not

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at all he already expanded it into other

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areas and I’m sure he will not stop till

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he finishes the total Destruction of

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Rafa which means destruction of all of

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Gaza Strip the only thing that will stop

10:35

Netanyahu is sanctions immediately there

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has to be military sanctions there has

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to be economic sanctions there has to be

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real actions by all these governments

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that kept telling us for the last two

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months that they are against an

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operation in RAF and they’re doing

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nothing when he is committing this

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terrible Massacre I’m talking about

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Europeans I’m talking about United

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States of America I’m talking about even

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the Arab countries this has to be

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stopped and it can be stopped only with

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immediate sanctions on as right right

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let me bring in your seat because

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clearly as we’ve heard there from

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Mustafa practically on its own this

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enhanced State uh at the UN this

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enhanced status for Palestine at the UN

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won’t on its own make much of a

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difference at all without a

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multi-pronged approach sanctions is

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something of course that Mustafa

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reiterated there but does this does this

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though at least pave the way for full

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membership at some time in the not too

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distant future

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Yosi I think first of all you know when

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I say symbolic symbolism in diplomacy is

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important and I think it sends a clear

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message what the world thinks I think

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again we are edging closer to

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recognition for all means and practices

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a Palestinian State exists in one one

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shape or form it’s about the recognition

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itself the there is leadership all in

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all we know the territory of what is a

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future Palestinian state so this this is

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there it’s about how it recognized and

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how it changes the relations between

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around the negotiation table when it

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eventually comes between the israels and

12:20

and Palestinians now but at the same

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time the most important thing right now

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is to stop the war because this is not

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going to change what the people of Rafa

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and the people of Gaza are are enduring

12:32

right now this is that this doesn’t stop

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settler violence this is doesn’t bring

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us much closer into ending this conflict

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that’s where the concentration should be

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so the recognition Palestine of a state

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is important as part of a much bigger

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move for towards the peace process and a

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p peace deal I know by listening to you

12:54

that you’re all very very keen to talk

12:56

about the obstacles in the way of

12:58

Palestine Bec a full member of the UN

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turning to you Jeffrey the main

13:02

stumbling block as we’ve said remains at

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the UN Security Council where just to

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remind our viewers at least nine

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affirmative votes and no veto from any

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of the five permanent members is

13:12

required the problem as we’ve all said

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is the moment a key member of the United

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States repeatedly votes against

13:21

recognizing the

13:22

Palestinians as a independent state

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claiming it would be quote harmful for

13:27

peace Jeffrey can you explain what they

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mean by harmful for peace the rationale

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behind

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this us politics is dominated by the

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Israel Lobby it’s very simple uh the uh

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Washington political class has sided

13:43

with Israel no matter what Israel has

13:47

done up to an including genocide it’s

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not complicated but the American public

13:53

is against this the young people are

13:56

shocked dismayed and out on the campuses

13:59

across the country and then uh Congress

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and the administrators of these

14:05

universities bring in the police to bash

14:08

their heads and to call in the police so

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this is extremely unpopular in the

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United States but this is a political

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class that is uh really uh led by the

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Israel Lobby I think what is important

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is the whole world make clear to the

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United States you alone are blocking

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peace now this is uh What uh the uh

14:35

Palestinian Ambassador said yesterday at

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the UN in a very powerful speech uh

14:41

Ambassador Riyad manur and a very

14:43

eloquent and Powerful speech the Israeli

14:48

Ambassador erad gave the single worst

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the most disgraceful speech that I

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recall and listening to hundreds of

14:55

speeches in the UN General Assembly

14:58

during uh the past 25 years of my work

15:01

with the UN absolutely a speech of hate

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uh and a speech of War uh and uh but he

15:08

was counting on a political class in

15:12

Washington that uh will stand by Israel

15:17

it won’t stand by Israel for long under

15:21

this because the American public uh

15:23

opinion is absolutely against this and

15:26

for absolutely good reason let’s turn to

15:29

Mustafa again because the US has also

15:32

claimed that the recognition of

15:33

Palestinian statehood would quote

15:36

undermine efforts to resume negotiations

15:39

between Israelis and Palestinians

15:41

essentially rewarding the Palestinians

15:44

for whipping up International pressure

15:46

on Israel and effectively rewarding the

15:49

armed wing of Hamas Islamic Jihad and

15:51

other armed groups for carrying out

15:54

violence what do you make of this

15:56

argument by the United States Mustafa

16:01

it’s the mother of all

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hypocrisies it’s such an amount of

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hypocrisy on the United States and some

16:08

European countries keep talking about a

16:12

two-state solution and advocate for

16:15

two-state solution and at the same time

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does do not even recognize Palestine and

16:21

not only that they do not say that

16:24

Israel must end its occupation of

16:25

Palestinian territories if Israel does

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not end its occupation how can we have a

16:29

state where will we have it in the

16:32

diaspora and third they are not saying

16:35

that Israel must dismantle all

16:37

settlements that exist now in the West

16:40

Bank without and Jerusalem without that

16:42

we will not have a Palestinian state so

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what you see here is a huge amount of

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hypocrisy by these countries that all

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they do by talking about two-state

16:51

solution all they mean is to give Israel

16:54

more time to continue the process of

16:56

settlement building and set and

16:59

annexation of the West Bank and killing

17:01

the very possibility of a Palestinian

17:03

State look at what’s happening there is

17:07

there are talks there is this resolution

17:09

in the United Nations which is just

17:11

paper but in reality on the ground what

17:14

is Netanyahu doing he’s closing off

17:16

destroying any final contact between any

17:19

Palestinian land and any other Arab

17:21

country by taking over Rafa and Rafa

17:24

Crossing with Egypt this is one of the

17:27

destructive Acts that is aiming at

17:30

killing the possibility of a two-state

17:32

solution so uh this American position

17:35

and some European positions are nothing

17:37

but hypocrisy they are hypocritical when

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they speak only about a two State

17:42

without recognizing the Palestinian

17:44

State and one more thing I think when

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the whole world saw how the Israeli

17:49

delegates ER arrogantly shredded the

17:54

charter of the United Nations in front

17:57

of everybody of the general assembly

17:59

what does that mean he’s sending a

18:01

message that Israel is above the law and

18:04

above international law and imp punitive

18:06

to international law and that could not

18:09

have happened except without the

18:11

American full support to Israel Yosi

18:16

turning to you Mustafa is very very

18:18

adamant turning to

18:20

Yosi Mustafa is very very adamant there

18:22

there’s a huge amount of hypocrisy

18:24

there’s absolutely no incentive

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whatsoever for Israel to ever recognize

18:28

a pal inian State while it goes about

18:30

accelerating its settlement building in

18:32

the occupied West Bank um of course both

18:35

Jeffrey and Mustafa have referred to

18:37

that semi theatrical moment uh at the UN

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in which uh gillad erdan the Israeli

18:45

ambassador to the UN shredded the UN

18:47

Charter accusing the UN of appeasing

18:51

so-called terrorist Laden Palestinian uh

18:54

uh politicians or the authority who want

18:57

to kill all is iselis and Jews is the

19:01

passing uh Yi is the passing of this

19:05

resolution in any way a violation of the

19:07

UN Charter as Israel

19:12

argues obviously it’s not and

19:15

unfortunately Ambassador Arden is

19:18

dealing more in his is an inclination

19:21

more to the theat in the drama of the UN

19:24

instead of substance it is actually the

19:27

role of of of the United United Nation

19:29

to decide about recognition of of of

19:32

other states so no and all this kind of

19:35

theater of shredding the charter I don’t

19:37

think he covers himself with glory and

19:40

not the country he represents This is

19:42

highly regrettable right I also don’t

19:45

take the overs simplistic view that if

19:48

only change the Israeli government we

19:50

remove all the obstacle for peace there

19:53

are other elements outside Israel that

19:55

are obstacle for peace but Israel needs

19:57

a change of government

19:59

Israel needs a change of Direction and

20:01

without it yes I agree there is also in

20:04

the United States an element high of

20:07

hypocrisy if the United States believes

20:09

in a two stat solution let’s move on

20:13

from recognition of statud as a

20:16

condition part of the negotiation but

20:19

put is first and then put both Israel

20:22

and palestin on equal footing that they

20:24

can negotiate with one each other with

20:27

one another estate and deal with all the

20:30

other outstanding issues from Jerusalem

20:33

is the capital of both and refugees and

20:36

and borders and then settlements and the

20:38

rest as two State dealing with each

20:41

other with with with

20:43

responsibility and and with with respect

20:46

and that’s we haven’t seen and that’s

20:47

what’s must change so if there are going

20:50

to be future negotiations they must be

20:52

on a Level Playing Field with respect

20:55

and responsibility on both sides of the

20:57

equation uh Jeffrey turning to you again

21:00

because I also want to look at one of

21:01

the other apparent obstacles for

21:04

Palestine being a full member of the UN

21:06

it comes from concerns about setting a

21:08

president for other Observer countries

21:12

that are aspiring to full membership at

21:14

the UN I’m thinking of Kosovo and its

21:16

tensions with Serbia Taiwan its tensions

21:19

with China will offering full membership

21:22

to Palestine complicate similar parallel

21:26

situations elsewhere in the world Kosovo

21:31

Taiwan no uh this has been the will of

21:34

the International Community and core to

21:36

international law for at least uh 57

21:41

years since uh the uh 1967 war uh the

21:47

notion that there need to be two states

21:50

of course goes back even two decades

21:53

before that uh this is a long and

21:57

specific history there needs to be a

22:00

political self-determination for

22:02

Palestine and a state of Palestine as a

22:04

UN member State uh this is not in any

22:08

way a dangerous precedent this is quite

22:10

the contrary this is a protection of

22:13

basic political rights that have been

22:15

recognized for decades why the US

22:18

position is is not only deep

22:20

hypocritical it’s profoundly cynical

22:24

because what it says is well let the

22:27

parties decide that knowing that Israel

22:29

says no so it has given a

22:32

veto to the state of having a state of

22:35

Palestine to Israel to the occupier this

22:39

is an absurdity uh but this is the US

22:42

position we don’t want to decide on a

22:45

state of Palestine because Israel needs

22:48

to negotiate that are you kidding the

22:51

occupying power the government that says

22:53

greater Israel we control everything

22:56

that’s the one that has the veto over

22:58

over Palestinian

23:00

self-determination that’s the actual us

23:02

position I don’t know how much is

23:05

cynical how much is bought off and how

23:07

much they’re fools but they have been

23:09

blocking peace for

23:11

decades that’s the US I mean all three

23:14

of you have been very vehement in

23:17

unpicking unraveling the obstacles in

23:19

the way uh when it comes to palestine’s

23:22

full membership of the U and I wonder if

23:24

we can look ahead to what full

23:25

membership would mean if and when it

23:28

happen happens Mustafa Israel was

23:30

granted full membership of the UN 75

23:32

years ago today Palestine is still as we

23:36

all know very much waiting what would it

23:38

mean to be negotiating with Israel as

23:41

we’ve mentioned before on this Level

23:43

Playing Field state to

23:48

state well uh let me remind you that

23:51

when Israel was recognized by the UN

23:54

there were two conditions that Israel

23:55

had to fulfill and they never fulfilled

23:57

it which is the fact that the 181

24:01

resolution said that there will be a

24:02

Palestinian State near Israel and that

24:05

never happened and second that Israel

24:07

would implement the 1 194 resolution

24:09

which would allow all Palestinian

24:12

refugees that were displaced by Israel

24:14

to come back home also they did not

24:16

Implement that so practically the Israel

24:19

undermined its membership by not

24:22

fulfilling these conditions that’s one

24:24

second yes there is a value of

24:26

recognition of Palestine and accepting

24:29

it as a full member because that would

24:31

mean that every measure of Israeli

24:35

settlement and every measure of

24:37

annexation has no political and legal

24:40

value anymore it would mean this is a

24:42

state under

24:44

occupation that would be absolutely

24:46

useful but I have to say that even when

24:49

the Palestinians and some Arab countries

24:51

proposed to the United States a plan for

24:55

threee pass towards a state through

24:58

negot NE iations with Israel Etc United

25:01

States refused to accept the plan

25:03

Lincoln refused to say accept it and

25:05

said you have to negotiate everything

25:06

with Israel while Israel right took a

25:10

resolution in the in their Parliament

25:12

with 99 members out of 110 Jewish

25:15

members Mustafa Palestinian must I’m

25:18

keenly aware that we’re approaching the

25:20

end of the the program and I want to

25:21

focus now on what a Palestinian state

25:24

would look like so as a followup to you

25:26

Mustafa and of course what it would

25:28

would look like maybe en an entirely

25:30

separate show but um but given the huge

25:34

disillusionment with the status quo

25:36

there particularly in the occupied West

25:38

Bank the failure to hold elections uh

25:41

you know in close to almost two decades

25:44

now how ready how ready is Palestine for

25:48

statehood oh Palestine has been ready

25:50

for a long time look we’ve built many

25:53

states in the Gulf we’ve built many

25:56

states in other countries we are so

25:59

equipped academically we are equipped

26:02

with scientifically with Resources with

26:05

people who are so capable it’s the

26:08

occupation that is preventing us and

26:10

more than that Israel is transforming

26:12

into a fascist structure this government

26:15

is fascist by all means and that’s the

26:18

obstacle it’s not the lack of Readiness

26:20

on the side of the Palestinians or the

26:22

need for reform at the claim the problem

26:25

is occupation the system of appetite the

26:28

fascism that is growing and that will

26:30

not be stopped without sanctions without

26:33

boycott without effective policy that

26:36

says to Israel enough is enough and for

26:39

the sake of Palestinians and Israelis

26:42

peace has to come and it cannot come

26:44

without the freedom of the Palestinian

26:46

people as you say peace cannot come

26:49

without the freedom of the Palestinian

26:51

people it has been a a fascinating

26:53

discussion a very very interesting

26:55

Journey with all three of you Jeffrey

26:57

saaks Mustafa bu guy Yosi melberg thank

26:59

you very much for joining us on Inside

27:03

Story and thank you too for watching and

27:05

you can see the program again anytime by

27:07

visiting our website aljazeera.com and

27:09

for further discussion go to our

27:11

Facebook page that’s

27:13

facebook.com/ AJ insid story you can

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